Worst All Black RWC exits
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@gt12 Agree about cane but many were doubting if BFA would even make the squad.
Lions loss. Can't remember. My recollection is we were massively the better team in 1st Test. SBW had a brain fart early in the second but we still hung in there until a very technical (correct) referring decision in the last moments of the test. 3rd Test was tight but we still should have pipped it except for the referring trio deciding technical decisions don't matter any more.
Seriously after Test 1 it looked like being 2005 all over again. Can't remember any selection shocks Savea was dropped for Rieko but that was form. Disappointing for sure - very bitter series draw but Hansens fault - not IMO
@dogmeat said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
a very technical (correct) referring decision in the last moments of the test.
If that's correct (can't be tackled jumping for a pass), why aren't we using that as a goal line tactic? Easy penalties or tries right?
I think Trask did that at the weekend - and he was jumping for a bouncing kick ( but no penalty)
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I think Hansen failed to settle on a squad and style of play until late. By the end he was seduced by the wins against SA and Ireland using the helter skelter style and was undone when we came up against an England team defensively strong
@canefan Hansen got caught between two stools with 2019 I think. Senior players fell apart (BFA, Read) and the talent hadn't come through quite yet. Exacerbated by injuries to game changers like Rieko, BBBR, and it was a frustrating time.
He has to take responsibility for not settling on a midfield for ages, though, and then knee jerking after Perth.
...and now I'm annoyed again,
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@dogmeat said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
a very technical (correct) referring decision in the last moments of the test.
If that's correct (can't be tackled jumping for a pass), why aren't we using that as a goal line tactic? Easy penalties or tries right?
I think Trask did that at the weekend - and he was jumping for a bouncing kick ( but no penalty)
@nzzp said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@dogmeat said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
a very technical (correct) referring decision in the last moments of the test.
If that's correct (can't be tackled jumping for a pass), why aren't we using that as a goal line tactic? Easy penalties or tries right?
I think Trask did that at the weekend - and he was jumping for a bouncing kick ( but no penalty)
Long lineout throw I thought. Same principle as the lions penalty.
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@nzzp said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@dogmeat said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
a very technical (correct) referring decision in the last moments of the test.
If that's correct (can't be tackled jumping for a pass), why aren't we using that as a goal line tactic? Easy penalties or tries right?
I think Trask did that at the weekend - and he was jumping for a bouncing kick ( but no penalty)
Long lineout throw I thought. Same principle as the lions penalty.
@Siam said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@nzzp said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@dogmeat said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
a very technical (correct) referring decision in the last moments of the test.
If that's correct (can't be tackled jumping for a pass), why aren't we using that as a goal line tactic? Easy penalties or tries right?
I think Trask did that at the weekend - and he was jumping for a bouncing kick ( but no penalty)
Long lineout throw I thought. Same principle as the lions penalty.
How do you say "We was fucked over" in French?
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@Siam said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@nzzp said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@dogmeat said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
a very technical (correct) referring decision in the last moments of the test.
If that's correct (can't be tackled jumping for a pass), why aren't we using that as a goal line tactic? Easy penalties or tries right?
I think Trask did that at the weekend - and he was jumping for a bouncing kick ( but no penalty)
Long lineout throw I thought. Same principle as the lions penalty.
How do you say "We was fucked over" in French?
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@mariner4life said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
Who in 2019 could say the same thing?
The ones that gave up our record against Ireland? That lost a Lions series? Yes, a draw is a loss.
@antipodean said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@mariner4life said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
Who in 2019 could say the same thing?
The ones that gave up our record against Ireland? That lost a Lions series? Yes, a draw is a loss.
people barely gave a fuck about either of those things. If they had come in the run of World Cup shockers there would have been calls for public executions.
For this is was "mah, exhibition game in the US" and "wow, the refs were pretty bad aye?" and everyone moved on.
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@rotated said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
The ABs very clearly lost the ability to go into siege mentality in the past cycle there were at least two games which were dubbed must win and the biggest games of the season going into them and they came up with flat performances (3rd Lions test, Dublin 2018). Without that ability to go up a gear they were always vulnerable to someone's best shot.
IMO caused by a drop in overall talent levels. And the fact that we had it too easy for too long. A lot of players didn't know anything about a tough time. There was no heartbreaker to focus the energy. There was no overwhelming public vitriol to combat. A decade to a decade and a half of unheard of success, where every dent was smoothed out a week later in emphatic fashion. You can't build mental resilience by winning all the time.
Richie, Dan, Woody, Kev, Nonu, even Conrad Smith, those guys knew what it meant to lose. And that drove them.
Who in 2019 could say the same thing?
@mariner4life said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@rotated said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
The ABs very clearly lost the ability to go into siege mentality in the past cycle there were at least two games which were dubbed must win and the biggest games of the season going into them and they came up with flat performances (3rd Lions test, Dublin 2018). Without that ability to go up a gear they were always vulnerable to someone's best shot.
IMO caused by a drop in overall talent levels. And the fact that we had it too easy for too long. A lot of players didn't know anything about a tough time. There was no heartbreaker to focus the energy. There was no overwhelming public vitriol to combat. A decade to a decade and a half of unheard of success, where every dent was smoothed out a week later in emphatic fashion. You can't build mental resilience by winning all the time.
Richie, Dan, Woody, Kev, Nonu, even Conrad Smith, those guys knew what it meant to lose. And that drove them.
Who in 2019 could say the same thing?
Two related things along those lines from Hansen
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He never drew a line under the 2015 side. He would often back the team against media criticism through the last cycle saying things like "after all this team has achieved" and "after two world cups"... when in truth how many of them carried the water in even one RWC win? Read, Rettalick, Whitelock, Ben Smith - maybe Barrett as a sub? Even just with McCaw, Carter and the centre combo leaving that was a completely different side.
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He never let the team suffer - at least publicly. It was absolutely infuriating to see him lose twice to Ireland with a "gee rugby is the winner on the day" and "let's not take anything away from Ireland" mindset. Maybe things were treated differently in private? But when you hear stories about Athletic Park '93 being the fulcrum of someone like Sean Fitzpatrick's career (in a series they ultimately won) it's bizzare that failing to win only the second Lions' series in history raised nothing more than a shrug.
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@antipodean said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@mariner4life said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
Who in 2019 could say the same thing?
The ones that gave up our record against Ireland? That lost a Lions series? Yes, a draw is a loss.
people barely gave a fuck about either of those things. If they had come in the run of World Cup shockers there would have been calls for public executions.
For this is was "mah, exhibition game in the US" and "wow, the refs were pretty bad aye?" and everyone moved on.
@mariner4life said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
people barely gave a fuck about either of those things.
I did. The Ireland loss I was fucking furious. Especially given the lead up looked like a car crash waiting to happen.
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Are these All Blacks still scared to lose?
@antipodean said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
Are these All Blacks still scared to lose?
well, they've at the very least become more accustomed to it
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@mariner4life said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
people barely gave a fuck about either of those things.
I did. The Ireland loss I was fucking furious. Especially given the lead up looked like a car crash waiting to happen.
@antipodean said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@mariner4life said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
people barely gave a fuck about either of those things.
I did. The Ireland loss I was fucking furious. Especially given the lead up looked like a car crash waiting to happen.
of course WE did. But the great unwashed barely gave it a glance.
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@mariner4life said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
people barely gave a fuck about either of those things.
I did. The Ireland loss I was fucking furious. Especially given the lead up looked like a car crash waiting to happen.
@antipodean said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@mariner4life said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
people barely gave a fuck about either of those things.
I did. The Ireland loss I was fucking furious. Especially given the lead up looked like a car crash waiting to happen.
Tui billboards waiting to happen - we'll just play JK at lock, eh
actually, shows our losses are when we mentally relax. Ireland had injuries, no good form, and just nothign to lose in that game. And our defence absolutely sucked - we got beaten up and run through all day. Sound a touch familiar to anyone?
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@mariner4life said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
people barely gave a fuck about either of those things.
I did. The Ireland loss I was fucking furious. Especially given the lead up looked like a car crash waiting to happen.
@antipodean said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@mariner4life said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
people barely gave a fuck about either of those things.
I did. The Ireland loss I was fucking furious. Especially given the lead up looked like a car crash waiting to happen.
Which one?
I think Chicago could be written off because well... it happened in Chicago.
Dublin was infuriating because it was heavily hyped and they didn't front the week before against England.
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In 2019 the bottom line is the ABs were as good as any other team at the tournament. But it was also obvious no one was good enough to take three teams best shot in three consecutive weeks - the ABS especially when you looked at their back half of 2018 which was supposed to be a dry run where they almost lost in Pretoria and Tickers and then lost in Dublin.
The ABs very clearly lost the ability to go into siege mentality in the past cycle there were at least two games which were dubbed must win and the biggest games of the season going into them and they came up with flat performances (3rd Lions test, Dublin 2018). Without that ability to go up a gear they were always vulnerable to someone's best shot.
They needed an QF or semi against an easier side or a team who played their final the week earlier.
@rotated said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
In 2019 the bottom line is the ABs were as good as any other team at the tournament. But it was also obvious no one was good enough to take three teams best shot in three consecutive weeks - the ABS especially when you looked at their back half of 2018 which was supposed to be a dry run where they almost lost in Pretoria and Tickers and then lost in Dublin.
The ABs very clearly lost the ability to go into siege mentality in the past cycle there were at least two games which were dubbed must win and the biggest games of the season going into them and they came up with flat performances (3rd Lions test, Dublin 2018). Without that ability to go up a gear they were always vulnerable to someone's best shot.
They needed an QF or semi against an easier side or a team who played their final the week earlier.
Japan really did fuck the whole thing up for us in 2019
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@mariner4life said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
Who in 2019 could say the same thing?
The ones that gave up our record against Ireland? That lost a Lions series? Yes, a draw is a loss.
@antipodean said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@mariner4life said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
Who in 2019 could say the same thing?
The ones that gave up our record against Ireland? That lost a Lions series? Yes, a draw is a loss.
Not the same thing, though, is it? You bomb out of a world cup you have to carry that for the next 4 years. You lose to Ireland one week and you can go again and beat them next week and it's OK. (That was kinda demonstrated by our QF win.)
The Lions thing is again different because we legitimately got shafted at the end there (though we still should have won that match and series) and because it's a once a career event if you're lucky - there's no real way to "make up" for not winning that series. Even winning a RWC doesn't do that.
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@antipodean said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@mariner4life said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
Who in 2019 could say the same thing?
The ones that gave up our record against Ireland? That lost a Lions series? Yes, a draw is a loss.
Not the same thing, though, is it? You bomb out of a world cup you have to carry that for the next 4 years. You lose to Ireland one week and you can go again and beat them next week and it's OK. (That was kinda demonstrated by our QF win.)
The Lions thing is again different because we legitimately got shafted at the end there (though we still should have won that match and series) and because it's a once a career event if you're lucky - there's no real way to "make up" for not winning that series. Even winning a RWC doesn't do that.
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@antipodean said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@mariner4life said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
Who in 2019 could say the same thing?
The ones that gave up our record against Ireland? That lost a Lions series? Yes, a draw is a loss.
Not the same thing, though, is it? You bomb out of a world cup you have to carry that for the next 4 years. You lose to Ireland one week and you can go again and beat them next week and it's OK. (That was kinda demonstrated by our QF win.)
The Lions thing is again different because we legitimately got shafted at the end there (though we still should have won that match and series) and because it's a once a career event if you're lucky - there's no real way to "make up" for not winning that series. Even winning a RWC doesn't do that.
@junior said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
Not the same thing, though, is it? You bomb out of a world cup you have to carry that for the next 4 years. You lose to Ireland one week and you can go again and beat them next week and it's OK. (That was kinda demonstrated by our QF win.)
You can't go again. Your record as an All Black reads: First AB team to lose to fucking Ireland.
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@junior said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
You lose to Ireland one week and you can go again and beat them next week and it's OK.
Except that you can never ever ever get that record back. Those players get to own that.
@Bones said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@junior said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
You lose to Ireland one week and you can go again and beat them next week and it's OK.
Except that you can never ever ever get that record back. Those players get to own that.
True, but no one can really say that a loss to Ireland at some point in history wasn't inevitable. And totally agree that they have to own that, but like I said above, there is a kind of catharsis that comes from being able to beat them the next week. Also, you don't remedy being the first team to lose to Ireland by winning the next RWC. So, I just don't see where these guys would have gotten the same RWC motivation from as say the 2011 team got from losing in 2007.
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@rotated said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
In 2019 the bottom line is the ABs were as good as any other team at the tournament. But it was also obvious no one was good enough to take three teams best shot in three consecutive weeks - the ABS especially when you looked at their back half of 2018 which was supposed to be a dry run where they almost lost in Pretoria and Tickers and then lost in Dublin.
The ABs very clearly lost the ability to go into siege mentality in the past cycle there were at least two games which were dubbed must win and the biggest games of the season going into them and they came up with flat performances (3rd Lions test, Dublin 2018). Without that ability to go up a gear they were always vulnerable to someone's best shot.
They needed an QF or semi against an easier side or a team who played their final the week earlier.
Japan really did fuck the whole thing up for us in 2019
@junior said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@rotated said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
In 2019 the bottom line is the ABs were as good as any other team at the tournament. But it was also obvious no one was good enough to take three teams best shot in three consecutive weeks - the ABS especially when you looked at their back half of 2018 which was supposed to be a dry run where they almost lost in Pretoria and Tickers and then lost in Dublin.
The ABs very clearly lost the ability to go into siege mentality in the past cycle there were at least two games which were dubbed must win and the biggest games of the season going into them and they came up with flat performances (3rd Lions test, Dublin 2018). Without that ability to go up a gear they were always vulnerable to someone's best shot.
They needed an QF or semi against an easier side or a team who played their final the week earlier.
Japan really did fuck the whole thing up for us in 2019
Yeah, and yet so many people on here were happy for us to play Ireland.
