Worst All Black RWC exits
-
@antipodean said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@mariner4life said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
Who in 2019 could say the same thing?
The ones that gave up our record against Ireland? That lost a Lions series? Yes, a draw is a loss.
Not the same thing, though, is it? You bomb out of a world cup you have to carry that for the next 4 years. You lose to Ireland one week and you can go again and beat them next week and it's OK. (That was kinda demonstrated by our QF win.)
The Lions thing is again different because we legitimately got shafted at the end there (though we still should have won that match and series) and because it's a once a career event if you're lucky - there's no real way to "make up" for not winning that series. Even winning a RWC doesn't do that.
-
@antipodean said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@mariner4life said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
Who in 2019 could say the same thing?
The ones that gave up our record against Ireland? That lost a Lions series? Yes, a draw is a loss.
Not the same thing, though, is it? You bomb out of a world cup you have to carry that for the next 4 years. You lose to Ireland one week and you can go again and beat them next week and it's OK. (That was kinda demonstrated by our QF win.)
The Lions thing is again different because we legitimately got shafted at the end there (though we still should have won that match and series) and because it's a once a career event if you're lucky - there's no real way to "make up" for not winning that series. Even winning a RWC doesn't do that.
@junior said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
Not the same thing, though, is it? You bomb out of a world cup you have to carry that for the next 4 years. You lose to Ireland one week and you can go again and beat them next week and it's OK. (That was kinda demonstrated by our QF win.)
You can't go again. Your record as an All Black reads: First AB team to lose to fucking Ireland.
-
@junior said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
You lose to Ireland one week and you can go again and beat them next week and it's OK.
Except that you can never ever ever get that record back. Those players get to own that.
@Bones said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@junior said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
You lose to Ireland one week and you can go again and beat them next week and it's OK.
Except that you can never ever ever get that record back. Those players get to own that.
True, but no one can really say that a loss to Ireland at some point in history wasn't inevitable. And totally agree that they have to own that, but like I said above, there is a kind of catharsis that comes from being able to beat them the next week. Also, you don't remedy being the first team to lose to Ireland by winning the next RWC. So, I just don't see where these guys would have gotten the same RWC motivation from as say the 2011 team got from losing in 2007.
-
@rotated said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
In 2019 the bottom line is the ABs were as good as any other team at the tournament. But it was also obvious no one was good enough to take three teams best shot in three consecutive weeks - the ABS especially when you looked at their back half of 2018 which was supposed to be a dry run where they almost lost in Pretoria and Tickers and then lost in Dublin.
The ABs very clearly lost the ability to go into siege mentality in the past cycle there were at least two games which were dubbed must win and the biggest games of the season going into them and they came up with flat performances (3rd Lions test, Dublin 2018). Without that ability to go up a gear they were always vulnerable to someone's best shot.
They needed an QF or semi against an easier side or a team who played their final the week earlier.
Japan really did fuck the whole thing up for us in 2019
@junior said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@rotated said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
In 2019 the bottom line is the ABs were as good as any other team at the tournament. But it was also obvious no one was good enough to take three teams best shot in three consecutive weeks - the ABS especially when you looked at their back half of 2018 which was supposed to be a dry run where they almost lost in Pretoria and Tickers and then lost in Dublin.
The ABs very clearly lost the ability to go into siege mentality in the past cycle there were at least two games which were dubbed must win and the biggest games of the season going into them and they came up with flat performances (3rd Lions test, Dublin 2018). Without that ability to go up a gear they were always vulnerable to someone's best shot.
They needed an QF or semi against an easier side or a team who played their final the week earlier.
Japan really did fuck the whole thing up for us in 2019
Yeah, and yet so many people on here were happy for us to play Ireland.
-
@Bones said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@junior said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
You lose to Ireland one week and you can go again and beat them next week and it's OK.
Except that you can never ever ever get that record back. Those players get to own that.
True, but no one can really say that a loss to Ireland at some point in history wasn't inevitable. And totally agree that they have to own that, but like I said above, there is a kind of catharsis that comes from being able to beat them the next week. Also, you don't remedy being the first team to lose to Ireland by winning the next RWC. So, I just don't see where these guys would have gotten the same RWC motivation from as say the 2011 team got from losing in 2007.
-
@junior said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@rotated said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
In 2019 the bottom line is the ABs were as good as any other team at the tournament. But it was also obvious no one was good enough to take three teams best shot in three consecutive weeks - the ABS especially when you looked at their back half of 2018 which was supposed to be a dry run where they almost lost in Pretoria and Tickers and then lost in Dublin.
The ABs very clearly lost the ability to go into siege mentality in the past cycle there were at least two games which were dubbed must win and the biggest games of the season going into them and they came up with flat performances (3rd Lions test, Dublin 2018). Without that ability to go up a gear they were always vulnerable to someone's best shot.
They needed an QF or semi against an easier side or a team who played their final the week earlier.
Japan really did fuck the whole thing up for us in 2019
Yeah, and yet so many people on here were happy for us to play Ireland.
@akan004 said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@junior said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@rotated said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
In 2019 the bottom line is the ABs were as good as any other team at the tournament. But it was also obvious no one was good enough to take three teams best shot in three consecutive weeks - the ABS especially when you looked at their back half of 2018 which was supposed to be a dry run where they almost lost in Pretoria and Tickers and then lost in Dublin.
The ABs very clearly lost the ability to go into siege mentality in the past cycle there were at least two games which were dubbed must win and the biggest games of the season going into them and they came up with flat performances (3rd Lions test, Dublin 2018). Without that ability to go up a gear they were always vulnerable to someone's best shot.
They needed an QF or semi against an easier side or a team who played their final the week earlier.
Japan really did fuck the whole thing up for us in 2019
Yeah, and yet so many people on here were happy for us to play Ireland.
It was pretty funny how we bitch slapped them though. That was good viewing
-
@akan004 said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@junior said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@rotated said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
In 2019 the bottom line is the ABs were as good as any other team at the tournament. But it was also obvious no one was good enough to take three teams best shot in three consecutive weeks - the ABS especially when you looked at their back half of 2018 which was supposed to be a dry run where they almost lost in Pretoria and Tickers and then lost in Dublin.
The ABs very clearly lost the ability to go into siege mentality in the past cycle there were at least two games which were dubbed must win and the biggest games of the season going into them and they came up with flat performances (3rd Lions test, Dublin 2018). Without that ability to go up a gear they were always vulnerable to someone's best shot.
They needed an QF or semi against an easier side or a team who played their final the week earlier.
Japan really did fuck the whole thing up for us in 2019
Yeah, and yet so many people on here were happy for us to play Ireland.
It was pretty funny how we bitch slapped them though. That was good viewing
@mariner4life said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@akan004 said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@junior said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@rotated said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
In 2019 the bottom line is the ABs were as good as any other team at the tournament. But it was also obvious no one was good enough to take three teams best shot in three consecutive weeks - the ABS especially when you looked at their back half of 2018 which was supposed to be a dry run where they almost lost in Pretoria and Tickers and then lost in Dublin.
The ABs very clearly lost the ability to go into siege mentality in the past cycle there were at least two games which were dubbed must win and the biggest games of the season going into them and they came up with flat performances (3rd Lions test, Dublin 2018). Without that ability to go up a gear they were always vulnerable to someone's best shot.
They needed an QF or semi against an easier side or a team who played their final the week earlier.
Japan really did fuck the whole thing up for us in 2019
Yeah, and yet so many people on here were happy for us to play Ireland.
It was pretty funny how we bitch slapped them though. That was good viewing
True, that was a thing of beauty.
-
@akan004 said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@junior said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@rotated said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
In 2019 the bottom line is the ABs were as good as any other team at the tournament. But it was also obvious no one was good enough to take three teams best shot in three consecutive weeks - the ABS especially when you looked at their back half of 2018 which was supposed to be a dry run where they almost lost in Pretoria and Tickers and then lost in Dublin.
The ABs very clearly lost the ability to go into siege mentality in the past cycle there were at least two games which were dubbed must win and the biggest games of the season going into them and they came up with flat performances (3rd Lions test, Dublin 2018). Without that ability to go up a gear they were always vulnerable to someone's best shot.
They needed an QF or semi against an easier side or a team who played their final the week earlier.
Japan really did fuck the whole thing up for us in 2019
Yeah, and yet so many people on here were happy for us to play Ireland.
It was pretty funny how we bitch slapped them though. That was good viewing
@mariner4life said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@akan004 said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@junior said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@rotated said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
In 2019 the bottom line is the ABs were as good as any other team at the tournament. But it was also obvious no one was good enough to take three teams best shot in three consecutive weeks - the ABS especially when you looked at their back half of 2018 which was supposed to be a dry run where they almost lost in Pretoria and Tickers and then lost in Dublin.
The ABs very clearly lost the ability to go into siege mentality in the past cycle there were at least two games which were dubbed must win and the biggest games of the season going into them and they came up with flat performances (3rd Lions test, Dublin 2018). Without that ability to go up a gear they were always vulnerable to someone's best shot.
They needed an QF or semi against an easier side or a team who played their final the week earlier.
Japan really did fuck the whole thing up for us in 2019
Yeah, and yet so many people on here were happy for us to play Ireland.
It was pretty funny how we bitch slapped them though. That was good viewing
We smashed them up front before we smashed them out wide. Should have done the same to England
-
@akan004 said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@junior said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@rotated said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
In 2019 the bottom line is the ABs were as good as any other team at the tournament. But it was also obvious no one was good enough to take three teams best shot in three consecutive weeks - the ABS especially when you looked at their back half of 2018 which was supposed to be a dry run where they almost lost in Pretoria and Tickers and then lost in Dublin.
The ABs very clearly lost the ability to go into siege mentality in the past cycle there were at least two games which were dubbed must win and the biggest games of the season going into them and they came up with flat performances (3rd Lions test, Dublin 2018). Without that ability to go up a gear they were always vulnerable to someone's best shot.
They needed an QF or semi against an easier side or a team who played their final the week earlier.
Japan really did fuck the whole thing up for us in 2019
Yeah, and yet so many people on here were happy for us to play Ireland.
It was pretty funny how we bitch slapped them though. That was good viewing
-
@akan004 said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@junior said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@rotated said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
In 2019 the bottom line is the ABs were as good as any other team at the tournament. But it was also obvious no one was good enough to take three teams best shot in three consecutive weeks - the ABS especially when you looked at their back half of 2018 which was supposed to be a dry run where they almost lost in Pretoria and Tickers and then lost in Dublin.
The ABs very clearly lost the ability to go into siege mentality in the past cycle there were at least two games which were dubbed must win and the biggest games of the season going into them and they came up with flat performances (3rd Lions test, Dublin 2018). Without that ability to go up a gear they were always vulnerable to someone's best shot.
They needed an QF or semi against an easier side or a team who played their final the week earlier.
Japan really did fuck the whole thing up for us in 2019
Yeah, and yet so many people on here were happy for us to play Ireland.
It was pretty funny how we bitch slapped them though. That was good viewing
@mariner4life said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@akan004 said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@junior said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@rotated said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
In 2019 the bottom line is the ABs were as good as any other team at the tournament. But it was also obvious no one was good enough to take three teams best shot in three consecutive weeks - the ABS especially when you looked at their back half of 2018 which was supposed to be a dry run where they almost lost in Pretoria and Tickers and then lost in Dublin.
The ABs very clearly lost the ability to go into siege mentality in the past cycle there were at least two games which were dubbed must win and the biggest games of the season going into them and they came up with flat performances (3rd Lions test, Dublin 2018). Without that ability to go up a gear they were always vulnerable to someone's best shot.
They needed an QF or semi against an easier side or a team who played their final the week earlier.
Japan really did fuck the whole thing up for us in 2019
Yeah, and yet so many people on here were happy for us to play Ireland.
It was pretty funny how we bitch slapped them though. That was good viewing
It was amazing, but it would have been sweeter to have bitch-slapped them in the final
-
@mariner4life said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@akan004 said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@junior said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@rotated said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
In 2019 the bottom line is the ABs were as good as any other team at the tournament. But it was also obvious no one was good enough to take three teams best shot in three consecutive weeks - the ABS especially when you looked at their back half of 2018 which was supposed to be a dry run where they almost lost in Pretoria and Tickers and then lost in Dublin.
The ABs very clearly lost the ability to go into siege mentality in the past cycle there were at least two games which were dubbed must win and the biggest games of the season going into them and they came up with flat performances (3rd Lions test, Dublin 2018). Without that ability to go up a gear they were always vulnerable to someone's best shot.
They needed an QF or semi against an easier side or a team who played their final the week earlier.
Japan really did fuck the whole thing up for us in 2019
Yeah, and yet so many people on here were happy for us to play Ireland.
It was pretty funny how we bitch slapped them though. That was good viewing
It was amazing, but it would have been sweeter to have bitch-slapped them in the final
@junior said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@mariner4life said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@akan004 said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@junior said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@rotated said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
In 2019 the bottom line is the ABs were as good as any other team at the tournament. But it was also obvious no one was good enough to take three teams best shot in three consecutive weeks - the ABS especially when you looked at their back half of 2018 which was supposed to be a dry run where they almost lost in Pretoria and Tickers and then lost in Dublin.
The ABs very clearly lost the ability to go into siege mentality in the past cycle there were at least two games which were dubbed must win and the biggest games of the season going into them and they came up with flat performances (3rd Lions test, Dublin 2018). Without that ability to go up a gear they were always vulnerable to someone's best shot.
They needed an QF or semi against an easier side or a team who played their final the week earlier.
Japan really did fuck the whole thing up for us in 2019
Yeah, and yet so many people on here were happy for us to play Ireland.
It was pretty funny how we bitch slapped them though. That was good viewing
It was amazing, but it would have been sweeter to have bitch-slapped them in the final
It's funny because you said Ireland in the final
-
@antipodean said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@mariner4life said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
Who in 2019 could say the same thing?
The ones that gave up our record against Ireland? That lost a Lions series? Yes, a draw is a loss.
Not the same thing, though, is it? You bomb out of a world cup you have to carry that for the next 4 years. You lose to Ireland one week and you can go again and beat them next week and it's OK. (That was kinda demonstrated by our QF win.)
The Lions thing is again different because we legitimately got shafted at the end there (though we still should have won that match and series) and because it's a once a career event if you're lucky - there's no real way to "make up" for not winning that series. Even winning a RWC doesn't do that.
@junior said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
The Lions thing is again different because we legitimately got shafted at the end there (though we still should have won that match and series) and because it's a once a career event if you're lucky - there's no real way to "make up" for not winning that series. Even winning a RWC doesn't do that.
The end was a joke but it was a case of they had 160 minutes to put together one good quarter in the second or third tests to put the Lions away and they couldn't do it nor did they even look likely too.
Even if the burgled the series most would still look at the performance, given the bulid-up, and see it as a total fizzer and harbinger of things to come.
-
@rotated said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
The ABs very clearly lost the ability to go into siege mentality in the past cycle there were at least two games which were dubbed must win and the biggest games of the season going into them and they came up with flat performances (3rd Lions test, Dublin 2018). Without that ability to go up a gear they were always vulnerable to someone's best shot.
IMO caused by a drop in overall talent levels. And the fact that we had it too easy for too long. A lot of players didn't know anything about a tough time. There was no heartbreaker to focus the energy. There was no overwhelming public vitriol to combat. A decade to a decade and a half of unheard of success, where every dent was smoothed out a week later in emphatic fashion. You can't build mental resilience by winning all the time.
Richie, Dan, Woody, Kev, Nonu, even Conrad Smith, those guys knew what it meant to lose. And that drove them.
Who in 2019 could say the same thing?
@mariner4life said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
Richie, Dan, Woody, Kev, Nonu, even Conrad Smith, those guys knew what it meant to lose. And that drove them.
Who in 2019 could say the same thing?Let's just hope there's a few around from 2019's debacle in 2023.
-
@mariner4life said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@akan004 said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@junior said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@rotated said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
In 2019 the bottom line is the ABs were as good as any other team at the tournament. But it was also obvious no one was good enough to take three teams best shot in three consecutive weeks - the ABS especially when you looked at their back half of 2018 which was supposed to be a dry run where they almost lost in Pretoria and Tickers and then lost in Dublin.
The ABs very clearly lost the ability to go into siege mentality in the past cycle there were at least two games which were dubbed must win and the biggest games of the season going into them and they came up with flat performances (3rd Lions test, Dublin 2018). Without that ability to go up a gear they were always vulnerable to someone's best shot.
They needed an QF or semi against an easier side or a team who played their final the week earlier.
Japan really did fuck the whole thing up for us in 2019
Yeah, and yet so many people on here were happy for us to play Ireland.
It was pretty funny how we bitch slapped them though. That was good viewing
We smashed them up front before we smashed them out wide. Should have done the same to England
@canefan said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
We smashed them up front before we smashed them out wide. Should have done the same to England
We were going to smash their lineout by picking Scott Barrett apparently.
That went well.
-
@canefan said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
We smashed them up front before we smashed them out wide. Should have done the same to England
We were going to smash their lineout by picking Scott Barrett apparently.
That went well.
@Victor-Meldrew that was the bizaare thing, with the team selected we thought we must have had a game plan to utilise it, but we didnt. Instead playing to the plan that needed Cane out there.
-
@Victor-Meldrew that was the bizaare thing, with the team selected we thought we must have had a game plan to utilise it, but we didnt. Instead playing to the plan that needed Cane out there.
@taniwharugby said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@Victor-Meldrew that was the bizaare thing, with the team selected we thought we must have had a game plan to utilise it, but we didnt. Instead playing to the plan that needed Cane out there.
I hope that wasn't Fozzie's master plan....
-
@taniwharugby said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@Victor-Meldrew that was the bizaare thing, with the team selected we thought we must have had a game plan to utilise it, but we didnt. Instead playing to the plan that needed Cane out there.
I hope that wasn't Fozzie's master plan....
@canefan said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@taniwharugby said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@Victor-Meldrew that was the bizaare thing, with the team selected we thought we must have had a game plan to utilise it, but we didnt. Instead playing to the plan that needed Cane out there.
I hope that wasn't Fozzie's master plan....
Considering Fozzie has named Cane as his captain I don't think leaving him on the bench features in his master plan.
-
The 2019 result was different to almost every other world cup exit because we weren't even the form team going into the tournament.
It wasn't some big surprise when England bailed us out, we had been on a rapid downward trajectory ever since Wayne Smith left.
@sdrggyy said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
The 2019 result was different to almost every other world cup exit because we weren't even the form team going into the tournament.
It wasn't some big surprise when England bailed us out, we had been on a rapid downward trajectory ever since Wayne Smith left.
Welcome aboard
Wayne@sdrggyy -
@canefan said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@taniwharugby said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@Victor-Meldrew that was the bizaare thing, with the team selected we thought we must have had a game plan to utilise it, but we didnt. Instead playing to the plan that needed Cane out there.
I hope that wasn't Fozzie's master plan....
Considering Fozzie has named Cane as his captain I don't think leaving him on the bench features in his master plan.
@Nepia said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@canefan said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@taniwharugby said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@Victor-Meldrew that was the bizaare thing, with the team selected we thought we must have had a game plan to utilise it, but we didnt. Instead playing to the plan that needed Cane out there.
I hope that wasn't Fozzie's master plan....
Considering Fozzie has named Cane as his captain I don't think leaving him on the bench features in his master plan.
The blatant Chiefs favouritism has started very early from Fozzie
-
@Victor-Meldrew said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@mariner4life said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
We still should have found a way to win though, given the ball and territory, and forward dominance. There was a collective failing of on-field leadership, not helped by losing both our 10s. A perfect storm of absolute shit.
I've come round to thinking the 2019 exit was worse. Can't blame the reffing, minimal injuries and plenty of opportunities to seize control of the game and win it. Instead, we played like headless chooks.
In '07 everything that could have gone wrong did go wrong, but yeah, we should have found a way. At least 2007 exit set the scene for the 2011 & 2015 wins. Just hope last years abject failure does the same
I think I said it earlier in the thread,
2007 was an emotional loss , maybe i had a more emotional attachment to that team ,dunno
but 2019 I was more angry, it pissed me off the most , we were putrid , no excuses , wasnt a choke , their form leading in was up and down,
England turned up with a plan to beat us , and we looked clueless , and the worst part - soft
@kiwiinmelb said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@Victor-Meldrew said in [Worst All Black RWC exits](
but 2019 I was more angry, it pissed me off the most , we were putrid , no excuses , wasnt a choke , their form leading in was up and down,
England turned up with a plan to beat us , and we looked clueless , and the worst part - soft
2019 is way down on worst RWC Exits
ABs were convincingly beaten Out-coached & outclassed English dynamism and intensity was of a different nature
Remember watching ABs play Pumas and not score a single point in the 2nd half was the 1st time I suspected ABs were a diminishing force
At least compared to others iterations who had dominated all others from 2008-2015
