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Billy Tell

<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.designassembly.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/DA-flags-long-list-large.jpg'>http://www.designassembly.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/DA-flags-long-list-large.jpg</a>
 
Someone who considers themself a designer went through all 10,000+ designs submitted, and choose this group of 40 flags. Which tells me why I don't think designers are that necessary. Flags and art are not the same thing imo. Some of these designs appeal, but there is no way you are going to get more than 50% of the voting public rallying behind one of these flags.

JC

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Billy Tell" data-cid="561818" data-time="1456861853">
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<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.designassembly.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/DA-flags-long-list-large.jpg'>http://www.designassembly.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/DA-flags-long-list-large.jpg</a>
 
Someone who considers themself a designer went through all 10,000+ designs submitted, and choose this group of 40 flags. Which tells me why I don't think designers are that necessary. Flags and art are not the same thing imo. Some of these designs appeal, but there is no way you are going to get more than 50% of the voting public rallying behind one of these flags. 
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Ahaaahaahaahaahaaa. Haahaahaahaahaa.
 
[attachment=1988:Screen Shot 2016-03-02 at 9.14.30 AM.png]
 
Sorry, I just have to go and take one of my pills. Haahaahaahaaa.
 
Ahaahaahaahaahaa.

No Quarter

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Billy Tell" data-cid="561818" data-time="1456861853">
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<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.designassembly.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/DA-flags-long-list-large.jpg'>http://www.designassembly.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/DA-flags-long-list-large.jpg</a>
 
Someone who considers themself a designer went through all 10,000+ designs submitted, and choose this group of 40 flags. Which tells me why I don't think designers are that necessary. Flags and art are not the same thing imo. Some of these designs appeal, but there is no way you are going to get more than 50% of the voting public rallying behind one of these flags. 
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There are some awful designs on that list. "Singlet"?? WTF?
 
Lockwoods Fern beats the hell out of all 40 of those.

booboo

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Billy Tell" data-cid="561818" data-time="1456861853"><a class="bbc_url" href="http://www.designassembly.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/DA-flags-long-list-large.jpg">http://www.designassembly.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/DA-flags-long-list-large.jpg</a> 
Someone who considers themself a designer went through all 10,000+ designs submitted, and choose this group of 40 flags. Which tells me why I don't think designers are that necessary. Flags and art are not the same thing imo. Some of these designs appeal, but there is no way you are going to get more than 50% of the voting public rallying behind one of these flags.</blockquote>
 
Who wouldn't vote for singlet?

booboo

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="No Quarter" data-cid="561826" data-time="1456863539">
There are some awful designs on that list. "Singlet"?? WTF? 
Lockwoods Fern beats the hell out of all 40 of those.</blockquote>
 
But desiiign daarling. 
Form 
Colouur. 
Market apppeeeal. 
Braaanding ....

Billy Tell

Yeah my point is we hear that "if only there had been designers involved". 
And I think the above link shows why that may not have been useful at all.

taniwharugby

Maybe a designer and a vexologist was the way to go? Then we could had the singlet with red peak on it!

Paekakboyz

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Billy Tell" data-cid="561832" data-time="1456864014">
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Yeah my point is we hear that "if only there had been designers involved". 
And I think the above link shows why that may not have been useful at all.
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From a sample size of one? Wonder if they were 'self taught'!!
 
From my perspective that comment (about a designer being included) isn't so much about what they would have picked themselves, but what they could have offered to the panel's discussions and final selections.

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Paekakboyz" data-cid="561911" data-time="1456894331">
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From a sample size of one? Wonder if they were 'self taught'!!
 
From my perspective that comment (about a designer being included) isn't so much about what they would have picked themselves, but what they could have offered to the panel's discussions and final selections.
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They had the ceo of Saatchi and Saatchi who I suspect would know a fair bit about branding and design and a flag historian. I've posted the flag the vexoligists chose and if thats the best they could do I want those weirdos nowhere near any flag design for our country.

MajorRage

And so it continues ... I'm starting to feel a like a Cruz or Rubio supporting Republican - dazed and confused at the outright stupidity of my fellow voting peers.
 
I asked some honest questions (all the while stating I respected others point of view), on a Vote No Change site, where the people were abusing Richie and Dan for their involvement. A couple of them personally messaged me offering all sorts of abuse. Te Shogun, I'm looking at you. That's right, abuse. It's unbelievable. Here was my post which created the "controversy" - I was rebutting to a guy that had a go at me because I suggested polls were showing only 40% wanted change.
 
Mark, I don't care what the number is. But it's high enough to suggest that Dan and Richi could well hold the view of change flag without being paid etc. Given that it seems the flag will change, why are so many of you up in arms about it?

Paekakboyz

You won't get any argument from me re the 'taste' of those vexoligists!

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="561914" data-time="1456895837">
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And so it continues ... I'm starting to feel a like a Cruz or Rubio supporting Republican - dazed and confused at the outright stupidity of my fellow voting peers.
 
I asked some honest questions (all the while stating I respected others point of view), on a Vote No Change site, where the people were abusing Richie and Dan for their involvement. A couple of them personally messaged me offering all sorts of abuse. Te Shogun, I'm looking at you. That's right, abuse. It's unbelievable. Here was my post which created the "controversy" - I was rebutting to a guy that had a go at me because I suggested polls were showing only 40% wanted change.
 
Mark, I don't care what the number is. But it's high enough to suggest that Dan and Richi could well hold the view of change flag without being paid etc. Given that it seems the flag will change, why are so many of you up in arms about it?
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I'll probably regret it but do you have a link to the site?
 
Andrew Little had dinner with some reps from the company that makes Keytruda and someone in his party leaked it to the media after he'd been beseeching pharmac to fund it, I had a look at stuff comments last night and the ferals were a joy to behold in full damage control mode.

Billy Tell

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Paekakboyz" data-cid="561911" data-time="1456894331">
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From a sample size of one? Wonder if they were 'self taught'!!
 
From my perspective that comment (about a designer being included) isn't so much about what they would have picked themselves, but what they could have offered to the panel's discussions and final selections.
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If the designer's had a brief, it could work. But the flag design guidelines were extremely vague, hence laser Kiwi etc. If you think about it, the most important thing if you're a designer (in the broad sense) is that the design will appeal to more than 50% of those who vote, so that the flag changes. Now, the vast majority of designers will want to be original IMO, meaning symbols such as the fern or the southern cross won't be included in their designs, because well if you've got a degree in design you're hardly going to choose a fern for your original design, are you. Hence all these esoteric designs like in my link, that might have "design/art" appeal, but will never ever have popular appeal. If you put those 40 designs forward, there will be small pockets of the population who really like a particular flag, but not a groundswell. The closet we probably got to a "design" flag was Red Peak...and it managed 3rd in the first round, and I extremely doubt would have taken out the current flag had it made it to the 2nd round.
 
There will absolutely never be a new flag that will please everyone. It's clear the committee went around NZ, and a large number of Joe Average Kiwis said the fern and the southern cross were important to them...hence why they ended up on the chosen flag...and why that flag has a small chance of replacing the current flag.

taniwharugby

haha I expect the internet to blow up soon, Peter Fitzsimons has just given his opinion on the flag on Seven Sharp....following the Aussies putting an ad out telling Kiwis to support the decision.
 
Some of it you wonder if it was tongue in cheek, but I dunno.
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://nz.news.yahoo.com/top-stories/a/30988253/aussie-group-calling-for-kiwi-flag-change/'>https://nz.news.yahoo.com/top-stories/a/30988253/aussie-group-calling-for-kiwi-flag-change/</a>

taniwharugby

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Billy Tell" data-cid="561921" data-time="1456898771">
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If the designer's had a brief, it could work. But the flag design guidelines were extremely vague, hence laser Kiwi etc. If you think about it, the most important thing if you're a designer (in the broad sense) is that the design will appeal to more than 50% of those who vote, so that the flag changes. Now, the vast majority of designers will want to be original IMO, meaning symbols such as the fern or the southern cross won't be included in their designs, because well if you've got a degree in design you're hardly going to choose a fern for your original design, are you. Hence all these esoteric designs like in my link, that might have "design/art" appeal, but will never ever have popular appeal. If you put those 40 designs forward, there will be small pockets of the population who really like a particular flag, but not a groundswell. The closet we probably got to a "design" flag was Red Peak...and it managed 3rd in the first round, and I extremely doubt would have taken out the current flag had it made it to the 2nd round.
 
There will absolutely never be a new flag that will please everyone. It's clear the committee went around NZ, and a large number of Joe Average Kiwis said the fern and the southern cross were important to them...hence why they ended up on the chosen flag...and why that flag has a small chance of replacing the current flag.
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if they had too much of a breif, then that would help fuel the conspiracy theories, so it had to be from 'scratch'
 
I think the flag we have chosen, ticks the boxes, but it is the silverfern design itself that has me hesitant.

Paekakboyz

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Billy Tell" data-cid="561921" data-time="1456898771">
<div>
If the designer's had a brief, it could work. But the flag design guidelines were extremely vague, hence laser Kiwi etc. If you think about it, the most important thing if you're a designer (in the broad sense) is that the design will appeal to more than 50% of those who vote, so that the flag changes. Now, the vast majority of designers will want to be original IMO, meaning symbols such as the fern or the southern cross won't be included in their designs, because well if you've got a degree in design you're hardly going to choose a fern for your original design, are you. Hence all these esoteric designs like in my link, that might have "design/art" appeal, but will never ever have popular appeal. If you put those 40 designs forward, there will be small pockets of the population who really like a particular flag, but not a groundswell. The closet we probably got to a "design" flag was Red Peak...and it managed 3rd in the first round, and I extremely doubt would have taken out the current flag had it made it to the 2nd round.
 
There will absolutely never be a new flag that will please everyone. It's clear the committee went around NZ, and a large number of Joe Average Kiwis said the fern and the southern cross were important to them...hence why they ended up on the chosen flag...and why that flag has a small chance of replacing the current flag.
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Not 100% sure but think we are talking about slightly different things here BT? As in a brief for designers actually creating options versus what a designer on the panel could have contributed to the selection process. Personal experience with projects that had online and print design elements (I'm not a designer btw) were more successful when a designer was involved to guide the process compared to when the IT/Editor/subject matter experts folk went it alone. 
 
I do agree with you and taniwharugby that a tighter design brief would have unleashed the apocalypse though. JK slips favoured flag design under wrong hotel room door by accident!!!

Billy Tell

I'd have no problem with a designer consulting on or refining some of the chosen designs. The Lockwood fern could be better the blue could be a tad darker etc IMO. 
Just don't think a designer flag from scratch would ever have enough popular appeal.

taniwharugby

wasnt the whole point to have people (designers, vexologists, spinners, hookers, KFC workers, fishermen, kids etc) from all walks of life make submissions anyway? 
 
I am still not convinced having a designer sitting on the panel to judge the submissions would have helped.

No Quarter

The guy that designed the AB fern offered to redesign the Lockwood fern. I wish he was taken up on that offer.

Rancid Schnitzel

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="No Quarter" data-cid="561937" data-time="1456902803">
The guy that designed the AB fern offered to redesign the Lockwood fern. I wish he was taken up on that offer.</blockquote> 
Yeah, I did notice that the antis have labelled this "fish bones" or words to that effect. Can't say I disagree with that.

The Silver Fern

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