AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?

junior

@DMX said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

@No-Quarter said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

@antipodean said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

@antipodean said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

@antipodean said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

@MN5 said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

@antipodean said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

I'm almost thankful that we have no games this year, or at most, a couple against the Aussies. Because this team is pretty uninspiring to me. Not for a lack of talent, but for how "messy" it feels. So few guys picking themselves as automatic selections, too many being touted to play out of position, and a new captain that is injury prone and probably not world class even at full fitness.

How can we have gone through another season and still have no idea what our midfield should look like? How is it that we have no natural 12's any more? We are touting Jordie Barret or Ennor (pre-injury) as great options, WTF?

We are still debating who to play at 10, who our best wings are, who to play at 15. We have no standout at 6, even 8 (maybe Sotutu), and arguably our best 7 will need to come off the bench.

And what we absolutely don't have is an cohesiveness in the combinations across the park. Tight 5? Nah. Loosie combination? No. Number 8/9 combo? Nope. Midfield? Maybe of they go back to ALB/Goodhue, but people seem to think this is unlikely. Back 3? Nuh uh.

I could see this team getting toasted by SA if we played them tomorrow.

You said it Homer.

I don't share the negativity.

I'm also trying to ignore the Cane trolling.

Trolling? Why do say that? Is any criticism of him disallowed?

I like Cane, I was amongst those calling for Hansons immediate sacking when he was omitted from the SF team. He hits like a rock, and in that backdrop in particular, he was absolutely necessary.

But in a balanced back row, with a traditional big 6 and a more powerful 8 (say Frizell and Sotutu), I don't think Cane is a world class 7 and I'd rather see Ardie in there.

Hardly trolling

Of course it's trolling. What did Ardie do as an openside in the NvS game apart from watch a number 8 go flying by at a scrum?

Ummmmmm - you accuse me of trolling, I give you a few valid reasons for my opinion, and you come back with a single incident in a single game as some sort of evidence that I am trolling???

That you think they're valid doesn't make them so. I simply can't take anyone seriously who posits that Cane isn't a world class openside flanker.

Well not too many world class guys get left out of their national side for a RWC SF do they? Seriously, where would you rank him internationally as a 7? World class to me means you're one of the first guys to be picked in your national team. Guess we just have different measures of greatness.

Cane being left out of the RWC SF was an absolutely ridiculous decision. It was literally leaving a world class player out of the starting lineup for the most important game. I still shake my head in disbelief at that.

I n 2019 Ardie might have been the most consistent forward we had and he was definitely in much better form than Cane. If you think Cane should have played its basically saying Hansen was correct in his original decision to play without a number 6 which was not completely obvious at the time he first chose the combo. That said I think Cane should have played because the combo had already worked quite effectively but for my reasons above it doesn't change the result.

One has to remember that we were beaten by a team playing with two 7s and we also beat the team that played a more traditionally balanced back row when we played two 7s.

What this means, in short, is that Hansen & Co completely fucked it.

kiwiinmelb

@No-Quarter said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

My backline from that squad would be:

A Smith

R Mo'unga

C Clarke

ALB

R Ioane

J Barrett

B Barrett

Plenty of size, power and pace with three play-makers / blokes that can kick the ball.

I like it but cant help but think they want Mounga and Beaudie both training and playing more as specialist 10s, listening to the coaches on selection day , unless ive misunderstood ,

and if right, im guessing they are going to start one and have one on the bench with Jordie 15 and perhaps jorden at 14

ACT Crusader

What I think they’ll go with

9 Smith
10 B Barrett
11 Reece
12 ALB
13 Goodhue
14 Ioane
15 J Barrett

21 Perenara
22 Mo’unga
23 doesn’t matter anyone of Clarke, Jordan, DMac, Bridge etc

That starting lineup has specialists with versatility.

voodoo

So....when is the team named?

Crucial

@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

So....when is the team named?

You just had to go there didn’t you?

pakman

@mariner4life said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

@DMX said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

@mariner4life said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

@nzzp said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

@mariner4life said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

I think half the problem is, up until the start of last year, the ABs thought they were perfectly positioned. And then they got muddled in their thinking, panicked, and left us in a mess. And a few chickens came home to roost as well with regards to developmental processes.

Lost faith in their senior players who fell off a cliff, didn't keep experience on the paddock, had terrible luck with injuries, missed a strong leader, and you get the volatile performances that wind up in a semifinal spanking.

In a world cup year it's a bit much to
change your back 3
constantly shuffle your midfield
change your 10
change your thinking at 6. twice.

In my mind way simpler than that, our three workhorses Rettallick, Whitelock and Read all came up empty. Read probably stuck around 2 years too long, Rettalick underdone and Whitelock nothing left in the tank.

that was massive for us. But i can only blame the coaches for 1 of those. And in reality, those were the "development" things i was talking about, we did not have a back up 8 or lock of any substance.

There is also the overseas money. Hard to keep a capped player who is set to ride the pine when there’s huge bucks available. Assuming Read was recognised as having just taken too much damage — back in particular — Steve Luatua would have been great to have had in squad. Charlie F, too.

ACT Crusader

@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

So....when is the team named?

The Thursday after there are zero COVID cases....

voodoo

@ACT-Crusader said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

So....when is the team named?

The Thursday after there are zero COVID cases....

Thanks Dan

ACT Crusader

@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

@ACT-Crusader said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

So....when is the team named?

The Thursday after there are zero COVID cases....

Thanks Dan

That’s Mr Carter to you

booboo

@Snowy said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

@booboo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

@Nepia said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

@booboo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

@sparky said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

Braydon Ennor has an ACL rip. Out for 9 months.

Pooh.

There goes my proposal to test a future 12 ...

He doesn't look like a test 12 to me ... why do you think he does?

Dunno.

Just a thunk.

Just get this impression he could straighten a line and create some space for a 13 outside him.

But frankly ignore me. I know nothing about ~~back play~~ ... ~~rugby~~ ... anything much.

Overly self deprecating there.

He does have some skills.

Does the 13 have to be a white boy? Apparently that is an issue.

Well he would be in my selection. With s couple if poly wingers ...

booboo

@shark said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

@Nepia Didn't someone mention that as a piss-take and then someone else picked it up and ran with it as if it was a possible scenario? Don't give it any more air, please. Ennor is a wing/centre.

I would however like to see J Barrett at 12.

Wasn't a piss take.

He just moves like a 12. It's the vibe.

And I think there's a fair amount of traffic in front of him at 11, 13 & 14.

shark

@booboo Not anymore there ain't

Machpants

@ACT-Crusader said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

What I think they’ll go with

9 Smith
10 B Barrett
11 Reece
12 ALB
13 Goodhue
> 14 Ioane
15 J Barrett

21 Perenara
22 Mo’unga
23 doesn’t matter anyone of Clarke, Jordan, DMac, Bridge etc

That starting lineup has specialists with versatility.

Umm...
Midfielders
Braydon Ennor (23, Crusaders, Canterbury, 1)
Jack Goodhue (25, Crusaders / Northland, 13)
Rieko Ioane (23, Blues / Auckland, 29)
Anton Lienert-Brown (25, Chiefs / Waikato, 44)

ACT Crusader

@Machpants don’t believe everything you read...

booboo

@shark said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

@booboo Not anymore there ain't

Maybe not in front on reflection, but at least in competition with.

13 Goodhue & Rioane (ALB)

11,14 Rioane, Clarke, Jordan, Reece, Bridge, JB

And as you Saders insisted on am Ennor/Goodhue midfield I would have like to see the combo tested with Jack in his best position. Seems the way it was played compromised both 12 and 13, rather than just 12 with my thought experiment. (However your Championship win puts my argument on its place.)

shark

@booboo Who insisted on a Goodhue / Ennor midfield? Not I. But don't let the truth get in the way of another Ferner trying to perpetuate a bad stereotype.

reprobate

ALB has been really mediocre all year. Goodhue at least showed a few nice touches still, in an out of position AB building up slowly sort of a way.
Poor old Laumape was far and away the best 12 before injury.

Bones

@reprobate said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

ALB has been really mediocre all year. Goodhue at least showed a few nice touches still, in an out of position AB building up slowly sort of a way.
Poor old Laumape was far and away the best 12 before injury.

Thought both ALB and Goodhue showed glimpses of the old spark in NvS, but ALB was slightly better at 12. Ennor hasn't exactly set the world on fire at 13, so I just can't get my head around why they'd play 2 guys out of position instead of just 1. If he wants to go to the midfield, why not have a crack at 12?

Bones

@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

I'm almost thankful that we have no games this year, or at most, a couple against the Aussies. Because this team is pretty uninspiring to me. Not for a lack of talent, but for how "messy" it feels. So few guys picking themselves as automatic selections, too many being touted to play out of position, and a new captain that is injury prone and probably not world class even at full fitness.

How can we have gone through another season and still have no idea what our midfield should look like? How is it that we have no natural 12's any more? We are touting Jordie Barret or Ennor (pre-injury) as great options, WTF?

We are still debating who to play at 10, who our best wings are, who to play at 15. We have no standout at 6, even 8 (maybe Sotutu), and arguably our best 7 will need to come off the bench.

And what we absolutely don't have is an cohesiveness in the combinations across the park. Tight 5? Nah. Loosie combination? No. Number 8/9 combo? Nope. Midfield? Maybe of they go back to ALB/Goodhue, but people seem to think this is unlikely. Back 3? Nuh uh.

I could see this team getting toasted by SA if we played them tomorrow.

So much blah. The captain is easily world class at full fitness. Who's touting Barret and Ennor as great options? Yeah woe is us having to choose from Barrett or Mounga at 10, oh no! We have a great core loose forward unit. What are you waffling on about there with cohesiveness? What's your solution to that "issue"?

I could see this team toasting SA if we played them tomorrow. Or do you know something no-one else does about how well the Saffa squad is going?

voodoo

@Bones said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

I'm almost thankful that we have no games this year, or at most, a couple against the Aussies. Because this team is pretty uninspiring to me. Not for a lack of talent, but for how "messy" it feels. So few guys picking themselves as automatic selections, too many being touted to play out of position, and a new captain that is injury prone and probably not world class even at full fitness.

How can we have gone through another season and still have no idea what our midfield should look like? How is it that we have no natural 12's any more? We are touting Jordie Barret or Ennor (pre-injury) as great options, WTF?

We are still debating who to play at 10, who our best wings are, who to play at 15. We have no standout at 6, even 8 (maybe Sotutu), and arguably our best 7 will need to come off the bench.

And what we absolutely don't have is an cohesiveness in the combinations across the park. Tight 5? Nah. Loosie combination? No. Number 8/9 combo? Nope. Midfield? Maybe of they go back to ALB/Goodhue, but people seem to think this is unlikely. Back 3? Nuh uh.

I could see this team getting toasted by SA if we played them tomorrow.

So much blah. The captain is easily world class at full fitness.

Would you have him in the top 5 opensides in the world? Top 3? I wouldn't. The fact that many don't think he is the best 7 in NZ is also telling.

@Bones said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

I'm almost thankful that we have no games this year, or at most, a couple against the Aussies. Because this team is pretty uninspiring to me. Not for a lack of talent, but for how "messy" it feels. So few guys picking themselves as automatic selections, too many being touted to play out of position, and a new captain that is injury prone and probably not world class even at full fitness.

How can we have gone through another season and still have no idea what our midfield should look like? How is it that we have no natural 12's any more? We are touting Jordie Barret or Ennor (pre-injury) as great options, WTF?

We are still debating who to play at 10, who our best wings are, who to play at 15. We have no standout at 6, even 8 (maybe Sotutu), and arguably our best 7 will need to come off the bench.

And what we absolutely don't have is an cohesiveness in the combinations across the park. Tight 5? Nah. Loosie combination? No. Number 8/9 combo? Nope. Midfield? Maybe of they go back to ALB/Goodhue, but people seem to think this is unlikely. Back 3? Nuh uh.

I could see this team getting toasted by SA if we played them tomorrow.

Who's touting Barret and Ennor as great options? .>

My point is that where the fuck are all the natural 12's running around? Guys that played their whole career at 12 or at least the last few seasons?

@Bones said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

I'm almost thankful that we have no games this year, or at most, a couple against the Aussies. Because this team is pretty uninspiring to me. Not for a lack of talent, but for how "messy" it feels. So few guys picking themselves as automatic selections, too many being touted to play out of position, and a new captain that is injury prone and probably not world class even at full fitness.

How can we have gone through another season and still have no idea what our midfield should look like? How is it that we have no natural 12's any more? We are touting Jordie Barret or Ennor (pre-injury) as great options, WTF?

We are still debating who to play at 10, who our best wings are, who to play at 15. We have no standout at 6, even 8 (maybe Sotutu), and arguably our best 7 will need to come off the bench.

And what we absolutely don't have is an cohesiveness in the combinations across the park. Tight 5? Nah. Loosie combination? No. Number 8/9 combo? Nope. Midfield? Maybe of they go back to ALB/Goodhue, but people seem to think this is unlikely. Back 3? Nuh uh.

I could see this team getting toasted by SA if we played them tomorrow.

Yeah woe is us having to choose from Barrett or Mounga at 10, oh no!

I'm obvs OK with this dilemma

@Bones said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

I'm almost thankful that we have no games this year, or at most, a couple against the Aussies. Because this team is pretty uninspiring to me. Not for a lack of talent, but for how "messy" it feels. So few guys picking themselves as automatic selections, too many being touted to play out of position, and a new captain that is injury prone and probably not world class even at full fitness.

How can we have gone through another season and still have no idea what our midfield should look like? How is it that we have no natural 12's any more? We are touting Jordie Barret or Ennor (pre-injury) as great options, WTF?

We are still debating who to play at 10, who our best wings are, who to play at 15. We have no standout at 6, even 8 (maybe Sotutu), and arguably our best 7 will need to come off the bench.

And what we absolutely don't have is an cohesiveness in the combinations across the park. Tight 5? Nah. Loosie combination? No. Number 8/9 combo? Nope. Midfield? Maybe of they go back to ALB/Goodhue, but people seem to think this is unlikely. Back 3? Nuh uh.

I could see this team getting toasted by SA if we played them tomorrow.

We have a great core loose forward unit.

We do? Who is is? Have they ever played together?

@Bones said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

I'm almost thankful that we have no games this year, or at most, a couple against the Aussies. Because this team is pretty uninspiring to me. Not for a lack of talent, but for how "messy" it feels. So few guys picking themselves as automatic selections, too many being touted to play out of position, and a new captain that is injury prone and probably not world class even at full fitness.

How can we have gone through another season and still have no idea what our midfield should look like? How is it that we have no natural 12's any more? We are touting Jordie Barret or Ennor (pre-injury) as great options, WTF?

We are still debating who to play at 10, who our best wings are, who to play at 15. We have no standout at 6, even 8 (maybe Sotutu), and arguably our best 7 will need to come off the bench.

And what we absolutely don't have is an cohesiveness in the combinations across the park. Tight 5? Nah. Loosie combination? No. Number 8/9 combo? Nope. Midfield? Maybe of they go back to ALB/Goodhue, but people seem to think this is unlikely. Back 3? Nuh uh.

I could see this team getting toasted by SA if we played them tomorrow.

What are you waffling on about there with cohesiveness? What's your solution to that "issue"?

You don't rate experienced combinations? That seems an odd position. I certainly don't have a solution for it, other than settling on a few combinations and sticking to them.

@Bones said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:

I'm almost thankful that we have no games this year, or at most, a couple against the Aussies. Because this team is pretty uninspiring to me. Not for a lack of talent, but for how "messy" it feels. So few guys picking themselves as automatic selections, too many being touted to play out of position, and a new captain that is injury prone and probably not world class even at full fitness.

How can we have gone through another season and still have no idea what our midfield should look like? How is it that we have no natural 12's any more? We are touting Jordie Barret or Ennor (pre-injury) as great options, WTF?

We are still debating who to play at 10, who our best wings are, who to play at 15. We have no standout at 6, even 8 (maybe Sotutu), and arguably our best 7 will need to come off the bench.

And what we absolutely don't have is an cohesiveness in the combinations across the park. Tight 5? Nah. Loosie combination? No. Number 8/9 combo? Nope. Midfield? Maybe of they go back to ALB/Goodhue, but people seem to think this is unlikely. Back 3? Nuh uh.

I could see this team getting toasted by SA if we played them tomorrow.

> I could see this team toasting SA if we played them tomorrow. Or do you know something no-one else does about how well the Saffa squad is going?

Do you really? I think that SA RWC side knew exactly who they were, what their strengths were, and how they wanted to play in both attack and defense.

I don't believe we do. Yet.

The Silver Fern

AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?