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Billy Tell

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="booboo" data-cid="562209" data-time="1457042721">
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Actually I think we will. 
I think this process has shown there is an appetite for change. 
It's missed it's chance because the proponents gave too much credit to their personal enemies thinking the argument would be about the issue at hand. 
So unfortunately it's become a series of side issues that has derailed the process. 
Rather than a strict "I want change v I want same", and "I like new flag v I don't like new flag" decision it's become "I don't like John Key", "It costs too much think of the children", "I didn't get what I wanted", "vexology", "tea towel", "marketers with money", "I don't like the All Blacks so get the fern off there" weirdness and bullshit. Given a couple of years I think there may be another crack at it. 
Hopefully NZ as a society may have matured a bit by then. 
BTW for those lucky enough to vote: vite for the new one :)
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I don't think so. Who would drive this? National - no. Labour/Greens - unlikely to be in power, would look very hypocritical, National supporters would give L/G the treatment their supporters have given National on this. NZ First...
A citizens initiated process - don't think so.
 
And people don't seem to realise that many of the objections raised this time will be the same next time
1) No-one has said how you can do a flag referendum cheaper - although I'm sure it can be. I can guarantee there will always be child poverty in NZ, that is for sure.
 
2) What is one man's Picasso Masterpiece is another man's horrible piece of design. You choose another design and you'll just modify the groups in the for and against camp. You'll still need 50%, which means you'll still need a fairly mainstream design...probably incorporating a fern. In other words a better version of a Lockwood design. Do we really think politicians are going to give people another vote in 2 years on a similar flag?
 
3) How do you get the balance right between having the right people design the flag...and the people not feeling the options have been imposed on them?
 
etc etc.
 
I would say 10 years minimum before another vote.

dogmeat

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-time="1457066040" data-cid="562295" data-author="jegga"><img src="http://www.h2g2.com/h2g2/skins/Alabaster/images/Smilies/f_facepalm.gif" alt="f_facepalm.gif"> ffs</blockquote> Make that three - Could see a record here

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="dogmeat" data-cid="562316" data-time="1457068374">
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Make that three - Could see a record here ;)
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<img src="http://www.h2g2.com/h2g2/skins/Alabaster/images/Smilies/f_facepalm.gif" alt="f_facepalm.gif"> sigh.

mariner4life

Likes! Likes everywhere!
 
<img src="http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view5/3511790/joker-throws-money-o.gif" alt="joker-throws-money-o.gif">

jegga

mariner4life

jegga

mariner4life

jegga

Paekakboyz

Godder

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="rotated" data-cid="562292" data-time="1457065675">
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How many in this thread have bought an engagement ring or had a wedding?
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No engagement ring, the wedding was $1000 all up including the wedding rings and reception..

Mokey

Fucking gif-happy internet weirdos. GET OUTSIDE.

jegga

Yeah m4l and Paekakboyz get outside .

booboo

This has gone quiet. 
Read this today. Good summary ... <a class="bbc_url" href="http://m.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11601063">http://m.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11601063</a> <blockquote class="ipsBlockquote"> 
NZ flag dilemmas: Beginner's guide 
Save 
Monday, 07 March 2016 
The New Zealand Herald 
By Claire Trevett 
The referendum on the flag has put some people into all kinds of dilemma. 
In general, people fall into four camps: Those who just want the Union Jack gone, those who want to keep the current flag, those who want change but can't stand the flag on offer and those who think the other flag is an improvement but think we might be able to do better. 
There is likely also a group who don't give two hoots about what flag we have. They cannot be helped. 
Here's a guide to some of the dilemmas the undecideds face and suggestions to get out of the pickle. 
â€¢ I want change but the new flag looks like a beach towel. 
Think of it in terms of tourism. New Zealand is proud of its beaches and what better way to advertise than flying a beach towel around the world? 
â€¢ I want change but the new flag looks like a tea towel. 
Think of our historic links to Mother England, which introduced tea to New Zealand, and of our modern trading links with India and China, where much of the tea comes from. Ongoing improvements to dishwashers mean the tea towel will become redundant, so the flag won't resemble one. 
â€¢ I want change but if I vote to keep the current flag we might get a design I like more in a few years. 
It is true another vote is likely to happen sooner if we keep the current flag than if change happens now. However, it is difficult to calculate how long people in this camp will have to wait before another chance comes up. 
The most precise timeframes given are both pegged to people's longevity. Prime Minister John Key has estimated it will not happen in his lifetime and Andrew Little's timeframes are either when the Queen dies or in 15 to 20 years' time. 
Key is 54 and the Queen is 89 but has longevity in her genes. The Queen Mother lasted until she was 101. 
It is also unlikely New Zealand will move toward republicanism the moment her reign ends - that would not be polite. 
The other danger is you might get a flag you loathe even more once this timeframe is up. 
Technically there is no reason why we cannot change now and change again later when we become a republic. Many countries changed their flags after a change in constitutional arrangements. Many have also refined their flags over time such as changing the proportions, taking elements out or adding them in. 
â€¢ I want change but I'm peeved we had to spend $26 million on it so I'm not going to vote for it. 
Newsflash. There is no refund if the flag doesn't change. In fact, not only does that mean the $26 million was spent for nothing, but it will have to be spent all over again when the next politician decides it's time to change the flag. If the money is the reason for indecision, cast it aside as an issue. 
â€¢ I want to use my ballot paper to send a message to John Key and vote against his wishes. 
Don't waste the ink. The only person who will see it is the Electoral Commission official who counts your vote. That is highly unlikely to be Prime Minister John Key. 
If you want change but think it will hurt Key not to vote for it, you're cutting your own nose off to spite your face. Forget about him. 
â€¢ I don't mind the design but everyone seems to hate it. 
The alternative flag got almost as many votes (559,500) as the Labour Party did (604,500) in 2014, and on a much lower turnout. 
Between them the two similar Lockwood flags got 1.1 million votes - slightly more than National got in the last election. So it can't be that unpopular. Do you see Labour claiming they're unpopular or too ugly to vote for? 
â€¢ I don't want change but I'm peeved at Labour's political point-scoring. 
You're voting for a flag, not a Government. Vote on the words up to change. 
â€¢ I want change but I'm peeved at Prime Minister John Key for running it as his pet project. 
Again vote on the first three words.</blockquote>

booboo

If I bothered with Facebook* I'd post this link just to wind up my raving socialist loony art dealer ex schoolmate whose every second post is a distainful dig at thise who want change. Transparently because of who instigated it.

I hate Facebook** ... but keep getting drawn back in to look ... I feel akin to Nick Willis and can relate to his shame and embarrassment ... 
** I know there's a thread ...

taniwharugby

I find the 'looks like a tea-towel/beach towel' argument ridiculous and just shows the point at our evolution of a nation we are at..
 
Clearly these people have never been to any tourist site in the world, or specifically the UK and seen the Union Jack bandanas, tea-towels, coffee mugs, key-chains etc

Crucial

Weird argument that one. Especially considering there are plenty of tea towels already for sale with the existing flag.
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.zazzle.co.nz/new+zealand+flag+tea+towels'>http://www.zazzle.co.nz/new+zealand+flag+tea+towels</a>

jegga

I've seen the tea towel one too also so what if Richie McCaw is so think he can't tell the flags apart? Is another doing the rounds. 
My mum had a reunion with a bunch of her cousins last week , one is the former auditor general and the flag came up in conversation. He said that when he and his Aussie counterpart go to international conferences they probably have to swap flags on their desk or hanging behind them over about a third of the time because the hosts fuck them up that often.

booboo

None of my tea towels have ever looked like a Lockwood flag. 
Strangely one of my beach towels looks exactly like the Aussie flag.

No Quarter

If you think it looks like a beach towel then you are pretty much saying it is a good design, as there is no doubt beach towel makers will produce one. The Canadian flag looks fantastic as a beach towel.

The Silver Fern

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