Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November
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@Nepia said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
Haven't had a chance to put my general thoughts together about the game yet.
Is it weird that the loss didn't hurt me as much as it really should? Maybe it was just the crazy nature of the game with multiple cards etc. Maybe it was due to the fact we already have the Bled in the cupboard?
The Good
> Akira and his bro, still nuts that they have detractors even when they put in good shifts. Hopefully Akira has more starts in his future and gets the chance to play a whole game. Made some good metres with the ball in hand, his offensive defence was good and he thumped into some rucks. He seemed to be stationed wide (like the Blues did with the Ginga Jesus last year) early on but moved in I assume to get near the ball as the game went on. As I've already mentioned in the match thread/MoTM thread Reiko had to clean up a lot shit.
Whitelock put in another good performance. The young fella looked like he was up to the task again when he came on. With those two, a returning BBBR and Patty T we're looking ok lockwise.
Cane and Ardie, so much debate about these two earlier in the year, they both had decent matches, Ardie started slow whereas Cane seemed to run himself to a stand still.
After weathering the early Oz storm and before Ofa got carded the ABs were actually playing some good constructive rugby. Hopefully they can get back to that.
Wright looked good for the Wallabies. He'll give hope to all non Fijian wings in Australia (TBF he might actually be the only non Fijian wing currently in Oz).
My Aussie mate was happy, he's also a Tahs fan so he does it tough, so I don't begrudge him the odd win. He was sober so wasn't an obnoxious winner which is likely the reason this is in the Good and not the Bad column.
The Bad
The dude who did the Welcome to Country forgetting he was at a rugby match and not a bogan rugby match.
The Red Cards. I think it would have been fine if they were both yellows. I get the whole deterrent thing that @NTA mentioned in the thread but I think at the speed of the game the margins are just too small. I also think the ref balls'd it up when he said Wright wasn't dropping, he clearly was, no matter how slight. The Aussie bloke (can't remember his name, Missing Link Mk II) was having a cracker of a match so that was a big loss for Oz.
Not taking the 3 points at the end of the first half after multiple penalties. Better to go into halftime with scoreboard pressure even if it's 3 and not 7. Black mark against Cane for his captaincy there.
Too many Barretts. BB had an average game which is annoying because RM hasn't really shone yet as a test 10. JB was his usual rocks and diamonds self. SB is confirming he's an actual idiot the more he plays.
TJP. I don't hate him like some do, and have always liked his contrasting style to Smith. But, he's out of form, plain and simple. Weber was out of form in Super rugby, TJP is now. Hopefully it's not a drop off the cliff though.
Reece. He's just shit. Hanson fucked up with his wing choices last year and Foster is continuing with it. Even at his erratic worst Naholo was easily better than this chump. Hell, I think even the crap version of NMS was better.
The Rugby
Mostly dud.
Most of that is down to their personalities I believe
@MN5 said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
Most of that is down to their personalities I believe
All the interviews I've seen with Akira he's seemed like a pretty chilled bloke, and when Reiko was doing those videos for the ABs he didn't seem any different than say Jane when he used to do the videos.
I can't actually understand why they wind people up so much.
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@chimoaus said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
Hooper was pretty clear in his press conference, we don't train to tackle the head, so it shouldn't happen in the game, players need to be better.
and i absolutely don't disagree with that. I have a problem with a tackle gone wrong being the same punishment as a full-blooded punch. I am very aware i am in the minority there though
@mariner4life said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@chimoaus said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
Hooper was pretty clear in his press conference, we don't train to tackle the head, so it shouldn't happen in the game, players need to be better.
and i absolutely don't disagree with that. I have a problem with a tackle gone wrong being the same punishment as a full-blooded punch. I am very aware i am in the minority there though
I'm with you, there's no way a tackle gone wrong is the same as a punch, a knee, a kick, a bite etc.
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@chimoaus said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
Hooper was pretty clear in his press conference, we don't train to tackle the head, so it shouldn't happen in the game, players need to be better.
and i absolutely don't disagree with that. I have a problem with a tackle gone wrong being the same punishment as a full-blooded punch. I am very aware i am in the minority there though
@mariner4life Maybe they need Yellow, Orange and Red. Orange is for careless tackles around head. 10 minutes in bin and on report, red only for intentional foul play like eating someone's ear.
Edit, na fuck 3 cards, too confusing, yellow and report. -
Hooper was pretty clear in his press conference, we don't train to tackle the head, so it shouldn't happen in the game, players need to be better.
@chimoaus said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
Hooper was pretty clear in his press conference, we don't train to tackle the head, so it shouldn't happen in the game, players need to be better.
FFS, he's going to have to watch himself now, he'll need to be squeaky clean from now on.
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@chimoaus said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
Hooper was pretty clear in his press conference, we don't train to tackle the head, so it shouldn't happen in the game, players need to be better.
FFS, he's going to have to watch himself now, he'll need to be squeaky clean from now on.
@Nepia said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@chimoaus said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
Hooper was pretty clear in his press conference, we don't train to tackle the head, so it shouldn't happen in the game, players need to be better.
FFS, he's going to have to watch himself now, he'll need to be squeaky clean from now on.
people are going to have to fall a long way down for him to hit them in the scone
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@chimoaus said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
Hooper was pretty clear in his press conference, we don't train to tackle the head, so it shouldn't happen in the game, players need to be better.
FFS, he's going to have to watch himself now, he'll need to be squeaky clean from now on.
@Nepia said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@chimoaus said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
Hooper was pretty clear in his press conference, we don't train to tackle the head, so it shouldn't happen in the game, players need to be better.
FFS, he's going to have to watch himself now, he'll need to be squeaky clean from now on.
He would probably need to leap to hit a players head
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Just realised Fakatava plays for Dunedin (my old club), so he plays for the magpies but doesn't have a local club? i guess club rugby lines up with the super calendar better, never really giving it much thought
@Kiwiwomble said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
Just realised Fakatava plays for Dunedin (my old club), so he plays for the magpies but doesn't have a local club? i guess club rugby lines up with the super calendar better, never really giving it much thought
He plays for Hastings R&S, I think that's his main club, he'll only play club rugby for Dunedin when the Highlanders want to give him game time I suspect.
It happens with Magpies players in other franchises as well.
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@Kiwiwomble did someone say he is not yet qualified to play for NZ, and may even opt for Tonga (which IMO is the best route if he is still awaiting qualification)
@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@Kiwiwomble did someone say he is not yet qualified to play for NZ, and may even opt for Tonga (which IMO is the best route if he is still awaiting qualification)
I'm not sure he'll opt for Tonga, he would likely have gone to the RWC last year with them if that was the case.
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Hooper’s tackle technique is actually very good. He’s not the biggest guy height or weight wise, so he’s not trying to “front on” players like Swinton or Ofa (and many others). He gets in low and targets the rib cage.
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@Bones said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
Weber's pass was at his wobbly SRA standards the first couple and maybe one or two after but at least he was distributing the ball.
The worst part about Perenara other than his typical mouthy carry on was he'd take so long and then still throw it at someone's ankles and/or behind them.
I thought I was watching late career Weepu last night and the absolute eternity for the ball to come out of the ruck.
The irony was him trying to “speed up” the play by taking a quick tap, yet it was slow mo from the ruck.
It was just disappointing all round game from TJ. I really hope he bounces back if he gets a shot against the Argies.
@ACT-Crusader said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@Bones said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
Weber's pass was at his wobbly SRA standards the first couple and maybe one or two after but at least he was distributing the ball.
The worst part about Perenara other than his typical mouthy carry on was he'd take so long and then still throw it at someone's ankles and/or behind them.
I thought I was watching late career Weepu last night and the absolute eternity for the ball to come out of the ruck.
The irony was him trying to “speed up” the play by taking a quick tap, yet it was slow mo from the ruck.
It was just disappointing all round game from TJ. I really hope he bounces back if he gets a shot against the Argies.
I think you mean more mid career Piri when he was playing as an organiser 9, late career he was having to adapt to the Smith style of quick passing which he actually made a reasonable fist of .
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@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@Kiwiwomble did someone say he is not yet qualified to play for NZ, and may even opt for Tonga (which IMO is the best route if he is still awaiting qualification)
I'm not sure he'll opt for Tonga, he would likely have gone to the RWC last year with them if that was the case.
@Nepia said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@Kiwiwomble said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
Just realised Fakatava plays for Dunedin (my old club), so he plays for the magpies but doesn't have a local club? i guess club rugby lines up with the super calendar better, never really giving it much thought
He plays for Hastings R&S, I think that's his main club, he'll only play club rugby for Dunedin when the Highlanders want to give him game time I suspect.
It happens with Magpies players in other franchises as well.
now i dont know how much time i want him to get for the Landers
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@chimoaus said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
Hooper was pretty clear in his press conference, we don't train to tackle the head, so it shouldn't happen in the game, players need to be better.
and i absolutely don't disagree with that. I have a problem with a tackle gone wrong being the same punishment as a full-blooded punch. I am very aware i am in the minority there though
@mariner4life said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@chimoaus said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
Hooper was pretty clear in his press conference, we don't train to tackle the head, so it shouldn't happen in the game, players need to be better.
and i absolutely don't disagree with that. I have a problem with a tackle gone wrong being the same punishment as a full-blooded punch. I am very aware i am in the minority there though
I don't think that you are.
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@mariner4life said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@chimoaus said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
Hooper was pretty clear in his press conference, we don't train to tackle the head, so it shouldn't happen in the game, players need to be better.
and i absolutely don't disagree with that. I have a problem with a tackle gone wrong being the same punishment as a full-blooded punch. I am very aware i am in the minority there though
I don't think that you are.
@Snowy said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@mariner4life said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@chimoaus said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
Hooper was pretty clear in his press conference, we don't train to tackle the head, so it shouldn't happen in the game, players need to be better.
and i absolutely don't disagree with that. I have a problem with a tackle gone wrong being the same punishment as a full-blooded punch. I am very aware i am in the minority there though
I don't think that you are.
i dont think he is either, hell, i just want less penalties in general, especially for "accidents" so definitely less cards
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None of us want to see guys sent off, but I guess the challenge is that unless you have severe penalties like a red, even for accidental poor tackles, then you probably don't drive the change in technique in the same way. Do teams spend hours re-learning how to tackle lower if the penalties are less?
I dont know the answer, but I can see the rationale.
And to state the obvious, I dont think that malicious play like punching or biting etc is considered in the same light, certainly not after the fact anyway when it gets to the judiciary.
No easy answers
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@Winger said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@mariner4life said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
I personally don't like it
Why not.
because for me, and this is just my personal opinion, red cards should be for serious foul play. Neither one on the weekend meet my threshold for that.
@mariner4life said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@Winger said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@mariner4life said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
I personally don't like it
Why not.
because for me, and this is just my personal opinion, red cards should be for serious foul play. Neither one on the weekend meet my threshold for that.
yeah im with you on that ,
maybe im selfish but I would like to see something not quite so harsh that it ruins the game as a spectacle for the fans
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@mariner4life yeah it's a tough one.
Priority 1 - health and safety of players
Priority 2 - maintain the integrity of a a full contact sport@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@mariner4life yeah it's a tough one.
Priority 1 - health and safety of players
Priority 2 - maintain the integrity of a a full contact sportSo, here's the thing. If Priority 1 is the H&S of players, then that applies to everyone equally - whether they are on your team or not, and as a ball carrier you have a responsibility to protect yourself.
So:
- dropping your player on their head from a lineout lift = card (didn't look after teammate)
- dropping your head into a tackle = card (didn't look after yourself) (also - see AWJ in Lions 3; JK copped a YC)
- Does poor tackle technique like putting your head in front of a runner and knocking yourself out mean you should cop a penalty/card for not protecting yourself?
I'm tongue a bit in cheek (well very in cheek), but I am making the point that H&S is not the only driver here. If it was then any act to affect another player or yourself would be stomped on and it's not.
Head high tackles look bad, and (it appears) are being reduced in incident rate fairly rapidly. However, you have the fundamental issue that rugby is a gloriously chaotic crazy impact sport where collisions happen in tight spaces with milliseconds to react. It's damn hard.
Finally, after sober viewing, I think Ofa could have got away with a yellow, but you can't argue too much with a red. Contact to head = red. Aussie Swinton, though, seemed not to be interested in arms, so was probably a double red (if that even existed; no arms, contact to head)
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@mariner4life said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@Winger said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@mariner4life said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
I personally don't like it
Why not.
because for me, and this is just my personal opinion, red cards should be for serious foul play. Neither one on the weekend meet my threshold for that.
yeah im with you on that ,
maybe im selfish but I would like to see something not quite so harsh that it ruins the game as a spectacle for the fans
@kiwiinmelb i'd like to see everything short of deliberate foul play or punches dialled back a step,
so like scrums and single off sides kind of stuff is a free kick (repeated becomes a penalty), poor form or accidents become penalties and then leave the cards for the really grievous stuff
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@Kiwiwomble based on what I have seen in this years M10 Cup, Fakatava and Nock would be the 9's I'd like to see more of, but sadly both have had limited chances at Super level for various reasons, although being back up at your Super team doesnt always stop you getting into the big kids team!
Fakatava has a good passing game and very strong defensively, Nock has a great passing game, kicking game is up there, very quick and seems to be defending more this year too.
@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@Kiwiwomble based on what I have seen in this years M10 Cup, Fakatava and Nock would be the 9's I'd like to see more of, but sadly both have had limited chances at Super level for various reasons, although being back up at your Super team doesnt always stop you getting into the big kids team!
Fakatava has a good passing game and very strong defensively, Nock has a great passing game, kicking game is up there, very quick and seems to be defending more this year too.
What's made A Smith so great is that he does the fundamentals so well. When he first entered the team, he had basically no running game and his box kicking was still very much a work in progress. But, the excellence of his passing game, and the way it made the players outside him better, meant that we could afford to have some quite "limited" at halfback. Obviously, since then, A Smith has been able to build a solid running game and kicking and added a bit of play making ability too. Now he's probably universally recognised as our best ever halfback - all built on an outstanding passing game.
In short, where I am getting to is that we need to identify the young guy with a similarly strong passing game and, to the extent necessary, build other skills on top of that foundation over time. What we definitely don't need are any "4th loose forward" type halfbacks who will just end up taking time and space away from the excellent players outside him. (OK maybe that's a nice squad option to have for wet conditions.)
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@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@Kiwiwomble based on what I have seen in this years M10 Cup, Fakatava and Nock would be the 9's I'd like to see more of, but sadly both have had limited chances at Super level for various reasons, although being back up at your Super team doesnt always stop you getting into the big kids team!
Fakatava has a good passing game and very strong defensively, Nock has a great passing game, kicking game is up there, very quick and seems to be defending more this year too.
What's made A Smith so great is that he does the fundamentals so well. When he first entered the team, he had basically no running game and his box kicking was still very much a work in progress. But, the excellence of his passing game, and the way it made the players outside him better, meant that we could afford to have some quite "limited" at halfback. Obviously, since then, A Smith has been able to build a solid running game and kicking and added a bit of play making ability too. Now he's probably universally recognised as our best ever halfback - all built on an outstanding passing game.
In short, where I am getting to is that we need to identify the young guy with a similarly strong passing game and, to the extent necessary, build other skills on top of that foundation over time. What we definitely don't need are any "4th loose forward" type halfbacks who will just end up taking time and space away from the excellent players outside him. (OK maybe that's a nice squad option to have for wet conditions.)
@junior lets not forget it had been a long time since we had a 9 with a great pass and the workrate of Smith, who knew his role was to clear the ball from every ruck, we had 4th loose forward 9's for many years, so Smith was a bit of a revelation at the time
I always go to that comeback v Ireland where SMith's pass and workrate was crucial to that last several minutes that lead to the try.
