Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November
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Just realised Fakatava plays for Dunedin (my old club), so he plays for the magpies but doesn't have a local club? i guess club rugby lines up with the super calendar better, never really giving it much thought
@Kiwiwomble said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
Just realised Fakatava plays for Dunedin (my old club), so he plays for the magpies but doesn't have a local club? i guess club rugby lines up with the super calendar better, never really giving it much thought
He plays for Hastings R&S, I think that's his main club, he'll only play club rugby for Dunedin when the Highlanders want to give him game time I suspect.
It happens with Magpies players in other franchises as well.
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@Kiwiwomble did someone say he is not yet qualified to play for NZ, and may even opt for Tonga (which IMO is the best route if he is still awaiting qualification)
@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@Kiwiwomble did someone say he is not yet qualified to play for NZ, and may even opt for Tonga (which IMO is the best route if he is still awaiting qualification)
I'm not sure he'll opt for Tonga, he would likely have gone to the RWC last year with them if that was the case.
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Hooper’s tackle technique is actually very good. He’s not the biggest guy height or weight wise, so he’s not trying to “front on” players like Swinton or Ofa (and many others). He gets in low and targets the rib cage.
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@Bones said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
Weber's pass was at his wobbly SRA standards the first couple and maybe one or two after but at least he was distributing the ball.
The worst part about Perenara other than his typical mouthy carry on was he'd take so long and then still throw it at someone's ankles and/or behind them.
I thought I was watching late career Weepu last night and the absolute eternity for the ball to come out of the ruck.
The irony was him trying to “speed up” the play by taking a quick tap, yet it was slow mo from the ruck.
It was just disappointing all round game from TJ. I really hope he bounces back if he gets a shot against the Argies.
@ACT-Crusader said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@Bones said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
Weber's pass was at his wobbly SRA standards the first couple and maybe one or two after but at least he was distributing the ball.
The worst part about Perenara other than his typical mouthy carry on was he'd take so long and then still throw it at someone's ankles and/or behind them.
I thought I was watching late career Weepu last night and the absolute eternity for the ball to come out of the ruck.
The irony was him trying to “speed up” the play by taking a quick tap, yet it was slow mo from the ruck.
It was just disappointing all round game from TJ. I really hope he bounces back if he gets a shot against the Argies.
I think you mean more mid career Piri when he was playing as an organiser 9, late career he was having to adapt to the Smith style of quick passing which he actually made a reasonable fist of .
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@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@Kiwiwomble did someone say he is not yet qualified to play for NZ, and may even opt for Tonga (which IMO is the best route if he is still awaiting qualification)
I'm not sure he'll opt for Tonga, he would likely have gone to the RWC last year with them if that was the case.
@Nepia said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@Kiwiwomble said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
Just realised Fakatava plays for Dunedin (my old club), so he plays for the magpies but doesn't have a local club? i guess club rugby lines up with the super calendar better, never really giving it much thought
He plays for Hastings R&S, I think that's his main club, he'll only play club rugby for Dunedin when the Highlanders want to give him game time I suspect.
It happens with Magpies players in other franchises as well.
now i dont know how much time i want him to get for the Landers
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@chimoaus said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
Hooper was pretty clear in his press conference, we don't train to tackle the head, so it shouldn't happen in the game, players need to be better.
and i absolutely don't disagree with that. I have a problem with a tackle gone wrong being the same punishment as a full-blooded punch. I am very aware i am in the minority there though
@mariner4life said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@chimoaus said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
Hooper was pretty clear in his press conference, we don't train to tackle the head, so it shouldn't happen in the game, players need to be better.
and i absolutely don't disagree with that. I have a problem with a tackle gone wrong being the same punishment as a full-blooded punch. I am very aware i am in the minority there though
I don't think that you are.
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@mariner4life said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@chimoaus said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
Hooper was pretty clear in his press conference, we don't train to tackle the head, so it shouldn't happen in the game, players need to be better.
and i absolutely don't disagree with that. I have a problem with a tackle gone wrong being the same punishment as a full-blooded punch. I am very aware i am in the minority there though
I don't think that you are.
@Snowy said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@mariner4life said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@chimoaus said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
Hooper was pretty clear in his press conference, we don't train to tackle the head, so it shouldn't happen in the game, players need to be better.
and i absolutely don't disagree with that. I have a problem with a tackle gone wrong being the same punishment as a full-blooded punch. I am very aware i am in the minority there though
I don't think that you are.
i dont think he is either, hell, i just want less penalties in general, especially for "accidents" so definitely less cards
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None of us want to see guys sent off, but I guess the challenge is that unless you have severe penalties like a red, even for accidental poor tackles, then you probably don't drive the change in technique in the same way. Do teams spend hours re-learning how to tackle lower if the penalties are less?
I dont know the answer, but I can see the rationale.
And to state the obvious, I dont think that malicious play like punching or biting etc is considered in the same light, certainly not after the fact anyway when it gets to the judiciary.
No easy answers
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@Winger said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@mariner4life said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
I personally don't like it
Why not.
because for me, and this is just my personal opinion, red cards should be for serious foul play. Neither one on the weekend meet my threshold for that.
@mariner4life said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@Winger said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@mariner4life said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
I personally don't like it
Why not.
because for me, and this is just my personal opinion, red cards should be for serious foul play. Neither one on the weekend meet my threshold for that.
yeah im with you on that ,
maybe im selfish but I would like to see something not quite so harsh that it ruins the game as a spectacle for the fans
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@mariner4life yeah it's a tough one.
Priority 1 - health and safety of players
Priority 2 - maintain the integrity of a a full contact sport@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@mariner4life yeah it's a tough one.
Priority 1 - health and safety of players
Priority 2 - maintain the integrity of a a full contact sportSo, here's the thing. If Priority 1 is the H&S of players, then that applies to everyone equally - whether they are on your team or not, and as a ball carrier you have a responsibility to protect yourself.
So:
- dropping your player on their head from a lineout lift = card (didn't look after teammate)
- dropping your head into a tackle = card (didn't look after yourself) (also - see AWJ in Lions 3; JK copped a YC)
- Does poor tackle technique like putting your head in front of a runner and knocking yourself out mean you should cop a penalty/card for not protecting yourself?
I'm tongue a bit in cheek (well very in cheek), but I am making the point that H&S is not the only driver here. If it was then any act to affect another player or yourself would be stomped on and it's not.
Head high tackles look bad, and (it appears) are being reduced in incident rate fairly rapidly. However, you have the fundamental issue that rugby is a gloriously chaotic crazy impact sport where collisions happen in tight spaces with milliseconds to react. It's damn hard.
Finally, after sober viewing, I think Ofa could have got away with a yellow, but you can't argue too much with a red. Contact to head = red. Aussie Swinton, though, seemed not to be interested in arms, so was probably a double red (if that even existed; no arms, contact to head)
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@mariner4life said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@Winger said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@mariner4life said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
I personally don't like it
Why not.
because for me, and this is just my personal opinion, red cards should be for serious foul play. Neither one on the weekend meet my threshold for that.
yeah im with you on that ,
maybe im selfish but I would like to see something not quite so harsh that it ruins the game as a spectacle for the fans
@kiwiinmelb i'd like to see everything short of deliberate foul play or punches dialled back a step,
so like scrums and single off sides kind of stuff is a free kick (repeated becomes a penalty), poor form or accidents become penalties and then leave the cards for the really grievous stuff
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@Kiwiwomble based on what I have seen in this years M10 Cup, Fakatava and Nock would be the 9's I'd like to see more of, but sadly both have had limited chances at Super level for various reasons, although being back up at your Super team doesnt always stop you getting into the big kids team!
Fakatava has a good passing game and very strong defensively, Nock has a great passing game, kicking game is up there, very quick and seems to be defending more this year too.
@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@Kiwiwomble based on what I have seen in this years M10 Cup, Fakatava and Nock would be the 9's I'd like to see more of, but sadly both have had limited chances at Super level for various reasons, although being back up at your Super team doesnt always stop you getting into the big kids team!
Fakatava has a good passing game and very strong defensively, Nock has a great passing game, kicking game is up there, very quick and seems to be defending more this year too.
What's made A Smith so great is that he does the fundamentals so well. When he first entered the team, he had basically no running game and his box kicking was still very much a work in progress. But, the excellence of his passing game, and the way it made the players outside him better, meant that we could afford to have some quite "limited" at halfback. Obviously, since then, A Smith has been able to build a solid running game and kicking and added a bit of play making ability too. Now he's probably universally recognised as our best ever halfback - all built on an outstanding passing game.
In short, where I am getting to is that we need to identify the young guy with a similarly strong passing game and, to the extent necessary, build other skills on top of that foundation over time. What we definitely don't need are any "4th loose forward" type halfbacks who will just end up taking time and space away from the excellent players outside him. (OK maybe that's a nice squad option to have for wet conditions.)
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@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@Kiwiwomble based on what I have seen in this years M10 Cup, Fakatava and Nock would be the 9's I'd like to see more of, but sadly both have had limited chances at Super level for various reasons, although being back up at your Super team doesnt always stop you getting into the big kids team!
Fakatava has a good passing game and very strong defensively, Nock has a great passing game, kicking game is up there, very quick and seems to be defending more this year too.
What's made A Smith so great is that he does the fundamentals so well. When he first entered the team, he had basically no running game and his box kicking was still very much a work in progress. But, the excellence of his passing game, and the way it made the players outside him better, meant that we could afford to have some quite "limited" at halfback. Obviously, since then, A Smith has been able to build a solid running game and kicking and added a bit of play making ability too. Now he's probably universally recognised as our best ever halfback - all built on an outstanding passing game.
In short, where I am getting to is that we need to identify the young guy with a similarly strong passing game and, to the extent necessary, build other skills on top of that foundation over time. What we definitely don't need are any "4th loose forward" type halfbacks who will just end up taking time and space away from the excellent players outside him. (OK maybe that's a nice squad option to have for wet conditions.)
@junior lets not forget it had been a long time since we had a 9 with a great pass and the workrate of Smith, who knew his role was to clear the ball from every ruck, we had 4th loose forward 9's for many years, so Smith was a bit of a revelation at the time
I always go to that comeback v Ireland where SMith's pass and workrate was crucial to that last several minutes that lead to the try.
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@junior lets not forget it had been a long time since we had a 9 with a great pass and the workrate of Smith, who knew his role was to clear the ball from every ruck, we had 4th loose forward 9's for many years, so Smith was a bit of a revelation at the time
I always go to that comeback v Ireland where SMith's pass and workrate was crucial to that last several minutes that lead to the try.
@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@junior lets not forget it had been a long time since we had a 9 with a great pass and the workrate of Smith, who knew his role was to clear the ball from every ruck, we had 4th loose forward 9's for many years, so Smith was a bit of a revelation at the time
Bachop was very good at clearing the ball from memory. We then had Marshall, Byron, Piri, TJ that were more physical players. I think the current game demands quick accurate passing and box kicks, these are two of the most important features of a test 9. Unfortunately, TJ lacks both. I really hope one of our young 9's can step up. Guess it is hard when TJ and Smith have pretty much locked up 2/5 franchises for years.
I don't hear much talk about Hall and Drummond yet they have been involved in one of the best functioning teams in a long time.
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@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@Kiwiwomble based on what I have seen in this years M10 Cup, Fakatava and Nock would be the 9's I'd like to see more of, but sadly both have had limited chances at Super level for various reasons, although being back up at your Super team doesnt always stop you getting into the big kids team!
Fakatava has a good passing game and very strong defensively, Nock has a great passing game, kicking game is up there, very quick and seems to be defending more this year too.
What's made A Smith so great is that he does the fundamentals so well. When he first entered the team, he had basically no running game and his box kicking was still very much a work in progress. But, the excellence of his passing game, and the way it made the players outside him better, meant that we could afford to have some quite "limited" at halfback. Obviously, since then, A Smith has been able to build a solid running game and kicking and added a bit of play making ability too. Now he's probably universally recognised as our best ever halfback - all built on an outstanding passing game.
In short, where I am getting to is that we need to identify the young guy with a similarly strong passing game and, to the extent necessary, build other skills on top of that foundation over time. What we definitely don't need are any "4th loose forward" type halfbacks who will just end up taking time and space away from the excellent players outside him. (OK maybe that's a nice squad option to have for wet conditions.)
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foster had a quick pass too.
When you have world class 10's then just getting them the ball on the front foot has to be the priority...if your 10 is "acceptable" then you might need someone with some other options
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@Tim said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@junior Time for a poll:
http://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4300/best-passing-young-halfback
booth and christie are both 26 arent they, only a couple of years younger than TJ
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@Tim said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@junior Time for a poll:
http://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4300/best-passing-young-halfback
booth and christie are both 26 arent they, only a couple of years younger than TJ
@Kiwiwomble Post it on the thread!
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@Tim said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@junior Time for a poll:
http://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4300/best-passing-young-halfback
booth and christie are both 26 arent they, only a couple of years younger than TJ
@Kiwiwomble said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@Tim said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@junior Time for a poll:
http://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4300/best-passing-young-halfback
booth and christie are both 26 arent they, only a couple of years younger than TJ
good call - Smith 31, TJP 28, Booth 26, Nock 24, Fakatava 20
