Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years
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@bayimports I just did it based on players I’ve seen play.
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@voodoo said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
Wrong thread for it, but I can't remember where the discussion of our best 9's was. But I'm intrigued by the lack of mention of David Kirk anywhere. Now I didn't really start watching rugby until 1990, so have no memory of him playing, other than footage of him lifting the trophy in 87.
Where do you guys have him in the ranking of our 9's throughout history?
Not high really.
Was kind of limited as a passer and not helluva robust.
Plenty better.
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@Chris-B said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@dogmeat said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@bayimports said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
Since Meads was voted player of last century from NZ rugby he is in.
The criteria is from Lions 71 Tour on. You cannot pick Meads on that basis. He played four tests, captained poorly (not his forte) to our only series defeat against the Lions and was dropped.
Actually, my intention was that anyone who played in those tests can be considered for the entirety of their careers.
Fair enough. I had the same thought as @dogmeat.
Then leaving out Meads is a cardinal sin, and neglecting Sir Brian will probably book you a few years in Hades as well.
My revised list:
McCaw
Meads
Fitzy
Jonah
Lochore -
@booboo said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@Chris-B said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@dogmeat said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@bayimports said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
Since Meads was voted player of last century from NZ rugby he is in.
The criteria is from Lions 71 Tour on. You cannot pick Meads on that basis. He played four tests, captained poorly (not his forte) to our only series defeat against the Lions and was dropped.
Actually, my intention was that anyone who played in those tests can be considered for the entirety of their careers.
Fair enough. I had the same thought as @dogmeat.
Then leaving out Meads is a cardinal sin, and neglecting Sir Brian will probably book you a few years in Hades as well.
My revised list:
McCaw
Meads
Fitzy
Jonah
LochoreThe criteria is unfortunate. Two AB greats had their swan songs just within the period given.
I left them out as to me they would be part of the 100 year greatest or 'greatest between 1920 and 1970' discussions (and be the first on the list) -
The call for no Jonah is extraordinary. The bloke changed the game. Would be the left wing in nearly everybody world wide's All Time XV. Was our stand out player at two world cups. Did shit no one had ever done before, or really has done since.
Every big winger is "the next Jonah". The guy is a phenom. Definitely in.
As for my "not sure about Carter" thing. I guess i was clouded by 2007, and 2011. And a sabbatical. But the guy was a freak. And he looked like that too. So not fair.
The one that kills me is Jeff Wilson is my favourite player ever and i am not even considering him.
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@mariner4life and he played ODIs for the BCs, and not just a bit player. Maybe the last true dual international?
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@booboo said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@Chris-B said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@dogmeat said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@bayimports said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
Since Meads was voted player of last century from NZ rugby he is in.
The criteria is from Lions 71 Tour on. You cannot pick Meads on that basis. He played four tests, captained poorly (not his forte) to our only series defeat against the Lions and was dropped.
Actually, my intention was that anyone who played in those tests can be considered for the entirety of their careers.
Fair enough. I had the same thought as @dogmeat.
Then leaving out Meads is a cardinal sin, and neglecting Sir Brian will probably book you a few years in Hades as well.
My revised list:
McCaw
Meads
Fitzy
Jonah
LochoreI was thinking the same thing, but if that is the criteria, then:
McCaw
Meads
Lochore
Jonah
Carter -
@mariner4life said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
The call for no Jonah is extraordinary. The bloke changed the game. Would be the left wing in nearly everybody world wide's All Time XV. Was our stand out player at two world cups. Did shit no one had ever done before, or really has done since.
Joeli was pretty good at it.
Every big winger is "the next Jonah". The guy is a phenom. Definitely in.
True, but there's limited opportunities to play against 1995 era Englishmen these days.
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@antipodean said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@mariner4life said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
Lomu was rugby's first global super star. Surely in.
First global superstar, certainly. Apart from 1995 RWC and 99 against France I'm not sure he did enough consistently to be among the top five. If only he hadn't had got sick.
Fitzy makes the list because there's been no better captain. And that's high praise considering the august nature of that club.
GOAT, obviously.
DC because there's been no more complete five-eighth.
I have to think harder about the remaining two.
Meads, obviously.
Lochore. Based on footage and reports. And if nothing else, leaving a note.
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@antipodean said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
And if nothing else, leaving a note.
Nice.
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@broughie said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@Crucial Probably because he was just on the end of the chain scoring try’s. Never saw him run over anyone, tackle with any amount of venom or do something amazing. Just fast and hence meh.
Are we back to talking Dougie?
I never said he was in contention for the final list, just that he never seems to get mentioned in wider discussions despite holding a record that many good players have failed to match.
He did a bit more than catch the ball, run and fall over. I seem to remember some very skilled chip and re-gathers for example. Also had a very consistent strike rate. Wasn't too many games where he didn't score (whereas others have their records boosted by multiple scores in one game against minnows)
Anyway, probably a discussion for another time, -
@Crucial being in the right place at the right time to take the last pass, no matter what part of the field, is a massively underrated outside back skill. Dougie was the fucking master.
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@mariner4life said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@Crucial being in the right place at the right time to take the last pass, no matter what part of the field, is a massively underrated outside back skill. Dougie was the fucking master.
The Dougster was so good he got rested for the Quarter against France 2007. Remember - we played Sivi and Roks (from memory), with the expectation that he'd be played in the Semi. Arrogance much?
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@nzzp said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
Arrogance much?
If i am fair, i was looking ahead to the semi final as well.
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@antipodean Mead was a tough bastard. Loved the game, loved the niggle, loved the beers afterwards but Lochore was more of a legend for me.
Not the greatest #8 we have ever had, but his contribution to NZ Rugby as player, Captain, Coach, Selector, Manager, Mentor is probably unparalleled. Reckon he would have adapted to the modern game more successfuly than Meads.
Says a lot about the man that as a relatively raw player, Fred Allen chose him ahead of established AB's who had years of provincial captaincy and were very strong characters in their own rights. Guys like Meads and Tremaine. Yet they were totally on board with the decision and idolised the guy. Very likely our greatest captain ever. Certainly the bedst I have seen. Perfect foil for the Needles coaching. Together they revolutionised the game and ushered in one of our golden eras.
McCaw, Carter, Jonah, Fitzy, BJ. Fitzy the one I have most doubts over now.
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with all the talk of Jonah in here, I couldnt see any mention on a quick scan of posts...5 years ago today.
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If Michael Jones ain't in the top 5 I'm going to burn this fucken place down!!!
It's only longevity and leadership that makes it a contest with McCaw
For the young and impressionable, the iceman changed the way a 7 can be. He can't be discarded with bright and shiny Smiths or Retallicks
