Americas Cup
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@Bovidae said in Americas Cup:
Too many mistakes from TNZ so far, starting with the pre-start.
I have a mate whos a hard out sailor, has a boat he competes in, I was talking to him about how at least we have a competitor in USA, I didn't see loosing as a big deal
his response was we were sandbagging it, trying not the kill the whole thing off before it starts
I don't know if I would go that far but we definitely seemed to be taking the hard option at every turn, doing stuff we didn't need to, to me it looked like we were trying to put some pressure on ourselves to see what we needed to work on. Considering we made up 500m on the second to last leg with on decision, got in front and then added another jibe that we didn't need to do according to the commentators...I hope im right
@Kiwiwomble we did things (your hard options) because we were trying to get separation which effectively says that on that course yesterday we didn't think we had enough boat speed to compensate for the lead Barker took at the start and the bad air he caused us. Barker covered everything we did in classic match racing.
Burling has said there were some technical issues in the pre-start and that he threw in the quick gybe at the last mark because of a possible collision. Maybe there were some issues but I don't think there was a possibility of a collision although didn't both boats protest?
Really early days. Can't right off anyone. Remember how Oracle turned it round over a weekend.
These boats are an engineering marvel. They were pushing 90kph out there through the water in moderate winds.
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@Snowy said in Americas Cup:
@Kiwiwomble said in Americas Cup:
@Bovidae said in Americas Cup:
Too many mistakes from TNZ so far, starting with the pre-start.
I have a mate whos a hard out sailor, has a boat he competes in, I was talking to him about how at least we have a competitor in USA, I didn't see loosing as a big deal
his response was we were sandbagging it, trying not the kill the whole thing off before it starts
I don't know if I would go that far but we definitely seemed to be taking the hard option at every turn, doing stuff we didn't need to, to me it looked like we were trying to put some pressure on ourselves to see what we needed to work on. Considering we made up 500m on the second to last leg with on decision, got in front and then added another jibe that we didn't need to do according to the commentators...I hope im right
Maybe some "dry powder" going on but we were experimenting / practising a few things it seemed.
Re the coverage - I wish they would put up the VMG more, rather than boat speed. They can go as fast as they like, but it has to be in the correct direction. It's like saying how fast Dmac is running across field.
It did appear that we could point higher, as well as a bit better downwind when we were trying to catch up for most of the race after the botched start. We will tidy up our execution of some of the foiling maneuvers, we did in Bermuda.
Love the boats though. The cats were more of a drag race. These beasts have more speed, can point higher and therefor have a little more scope to play with lay lines v boatspeed, can play the actual match racing game - as the Americas cup should be (Barker showed that with all of his covering) and all of the technology / design as well.
The yanks also did well to get a Kiwi skipper and remove a bit of the local knowledge advantage that we have.
That's what I thought
something else was going on though as I thought we were always pointing higher and with comparable speed...but didn't seem to gain apart from the one leg
@Kiwiwomble said in Americas Cup:
something else was going on though as I thought we were always pointing higher and with comparable speed...
I think they were playing with things. Good experience. So many variables, especially when you are behind. Turbulent air from being covered, wind shifts, pressure, etc. Not easy sailing in there. They even mentioned how tough it was around the Tamaki yacht club which amused me. I sailed P class there as a kid, half the fleet of beginners had to be towed back to shore. It was a nightmare. Completely unstable wind direction, but mostly offshore, dead calm at times with an outgoing tide and nowhere to aim for other than the club boat ramp itself. Not easy to go and get yourself onto the beach a bit further down as rule, pretty rocky, seawalls, etc.
Anyway chasing the game in a match race with the other boat all over you is tough.
@dogmeat said in Americas Cup:
These boats are an engineering marvel.
Whoever came up the concept should get a medal. Best of both worlds, foiling cat speeds plus some, with proper match racing. Sailors on a knife edge to get it right.
Interesting commentary too. Lester said that basically below the water line was electrically operated, above was hydraulic with accumulators and the jib was a manual winch. I thought that it would be all hydraulic. Anyone know where the electric power is coming from? That just seemed weird, lifting the foils must be hydraulic...
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@Kiwiwomble we did things (your hard options) because we were trying to get separation which effectively says that on that course yesterday we didn't think we had enough boat speed to compensate for the lead Barker took at the start and the bad air he caused us. Barker covered everything we did in classic match racing.
Burling has said there were some technical issues in the pre-start and that he threw in the quick gybe at the last mark because of a possible collision. Maybe there were some issues but I don't think there was a possibility of a collision although didn't both boats protest?
Really early days. Can't right off anyone. Remember how Oracle turned it round over a weekend.
These boats are an engineering marvel. They were pushing 90kph out there through the water in moderate winds.
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@dogmeat I don't know what im saying that makes people think im writing them off, firmly in the position of we were trying to do more, test stuff, get separation as you say etc, all valuable training
@Kiwiwomble said in Americas Cup:
@dogmeat I don't know what im saying that makes people think im writing them off, firmly in the position of we were trying to do more, test stuff, get separation as you say etc, all valuable training
I don't think that anyone has written anyone off yet, nor that you said so.
Ainslie is a great sailor and they have huge budget so even the Brits are likely to be competitive very soon. We have them twice today so hopefully they have fixed the reliability issue. The speed one seems unlikely (for today).
This little regatta is testing and training for everyone under match conditions so there will be quite a lot of pissing about technically and with skills for the guys on board.
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That was a good race!
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@Bovidae after Barkers error I thought Spithill blew it with that zig zag gybe near the end of leg 2 I think it was.
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TNZ got air
@taniwharugby said in Americas Cup:
TNZ got air
Both of these races have demonstrated the small margins which could lead to a catastrophic error.
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@Hooroo said in Americas Cup:
What is the siren sounding noise when they go on board?
hydraulics. Would be super annoyin gafter a while I suspect
@nzzp said in Americas Cup:
@Hooroo said in Americas Cup:
What is the siren sounding noise when they go on board?
hydraulics. Would be super annoyin gafter a while I suspect
Yeah bizarre. I wonder why they are so noisy? Tractor Hydraulics are heaps quieter
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@nzzp said in Americas Cup:
TNZ owned in the prestart - they keep falling off their foils. Could be a big issue for them
As I understand it, each team is allowed 3 sets of foils so they most likely have a light, mid, heavy air set to fit into the 6 to 21 knot range. I'm guessing about that and haven't found any info.
ETNZ may be going for a smaller / heavier air set than are ideal for the conditions to get reduced drag and better overall boat speed. The drawback would be less lift making slower speed start manoeuvres more difficult and falling off the foils more likely, as well as getting back up on them requiring more time, pointing lower, etc.
That is all supposition on my part but from memory the cats had different foils for different wind speeds.
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@nzzp said in Americas Cup:
TNZ owned in the prestart - they keep falling off their foils. Could be a big issue for them
As I understand it, each team is allowed 3 sets of foils so they most likely have a light, mid, heavy air set to fit into the 6 to 21 knot range. I'm guessing about that and haven't found any info.
ETNZ may be going for a smaller / heavier air set than are ideal for the conditions to get reduced drag and better overall boat speed. The drawback would be less lift making slower speed start manoeuvres more difficult and falling off the foils more likely, as well as getting back up on them requiring more time, pointing lower, etc.
That is all supposition on my part but from memory the cats had different foils for different wind speeds.
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Is Ainslie just a bit shit?
When these boats are going flat out, thier top speeds look comparable, yet Ainslie seems to be making alot of errors
Team UK seem to have a different main-sail mechanism track too, looks a bit more clunky than the others?
