Black Caps v Pakistan
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@MN5 said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Godder said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
IMO Vettori is the best spinner to play for NZ (Grimmett is probably the best NZ-born spinner), although Braces could have done well if he'd kept playing instead of retiring as soon as he reached the 1000/100 double.
I think we can safely say now that Kane is our best test batsman, and also that Taylor is second (Taylor has surpassed everyone else IMO - we're only not lauding him as our best ever because of Kane), but it's still very close between Kane and Taylor across all international formats (Taylor has the better ODI record, most total runs and longevity).
Hadlee is a serious contender for all time world XIs, while Kane currently is nowhere near that, but as above, if he keeps at his current trajectory for the rest of his career, they would probably be close.
Kane is currently 30, debuted at 20, and has played 82 tests for ~7,000 runs, so about 85 runs/test. If he plays another 7-8 years and 60 tests at the current rate, he would have around 12,000 runs by the end at an average of 53 or so. Some of the current crop will join him there, but that would probably see him in the top 30-40 batsmen of all time.
That said, Kane had a relatively poor start (averaged 41 for the first 5 years) and has averaged over 65 since then at 95 runs/test, so that would calculate to 12,500 runs and an average of around 61. That average would probably see him in a lot more conversations - 12,000 runs at 53 is great, 13,000 runs at 61 is another level.
Kane is basically NZs Bradman if that makes sense, prior to him we’d never had anyone who averaged over 50 for any decent length of time whereas every other country did ( although Sri Lanka and Zimbabwe only have one each I think ).
Probably fair to say he is number one in the world at test level right now although Smith and Kohli are only a big innings or two away from usurping him.
It's so close between those three at the moment. All it would take is a couple of failures from Kane and some back to back tons to Smith or Kohli and the pecking order changes again. I see England's next big thing Joe Root's average has slipped into the 47s. It's damn hard to keep it above 50 for a prolonged period. Kane has been north of 60 for the last 6 years straight!
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@Godder said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@MN5 said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@canefan said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@MN5 he's come a long way from being known as the guy with fast hands who could slog it over cow corner
....and thank goodness for that. He could have easily become another Marshall ( either one ), Vincent, How, Fulton......( shudders )
We can thank Crowe for that - he became Taylor's mentor and instilled some discipline into him and a drive to achieve a few records, not just a have bit of fun with the bat.
Agree, Rosco is someone that has worked extremely hard to maximise his talents, going against his natural instincts as a player to score as many runs as possible, something many NZ batsmen past and present have not managed to do so have ended up with averages in the 30s.
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@No-Quarter said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@MN5 said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Godder said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
IMO Vettori is the best spinner to play for NZ (Grimmett is probably the best NZ-born spinner), although Braces could have done well if he'd kept playing instead of retiring as soon as he reached the 1000/100 double.
I think we can safely say now that Kane is our best test batsman, and also that Taylor is second (Taylor has surpassed everyone else IMO - we're only not lauding him as our best ever because of Kane), but it's still very close between Kane and Taylor across all international formats (Taylor has the better ODI record, most total runs and longevity).
Hadlee is a serious contender for all time world XIs, while Kane currently is nowhere near that, but as above, if he keeps at his current trajectory for the rest of his career, they would probably be close.
Kane is currently 30, debuted at 20, and has played 82 tests for ~7,000 runs, so about 85 runs/test. If he plays another 7-8 years and 60 tests at the current rate, he would have around 12,000 runs by the end at an average of 53 or so. Some of the current crop will join him there, but that would probably see him in the top 30-40 batsmen of all time.
That said, Kane had a relatively poor start (averaged 41 for the first 5 years) and has averaged over 65 since then at 95 runs/test, so that would calculate to 12,500 runs and an average of around 61. That average would probably see him in a lot more conversations - 12,000 runs at 53 is great, 13,000 runs at 61 is another level.
Kane is basically NZs Bradman if that makes sense, prior to him we’d never had anyone who averaged over 50 for any decent length of time whereas every other country did ( although Sri Lanka and Zimbabwe only have one each I think ).
Probably fair to say he is number one in the world at test level right now although Smith and Kohli are only a big innings or two away from usurping him.
It's so close between those three at the moment. All it would take is a couple of failures from Kane and some back to back tons to Smith or Kohli and the pecking order changes again. I see England's next big thing Joe Root's average has slipped into the 47s. It's damn hard to keep it above 50 for a prolonged period. Kane has been north of 60 for the last 6 years straight!
I just don't think Root is in that class. He's about Rossco level. Obviously very good, definitely Englands best batsman but he's no longer part of the elite trio ( formerly a quartet )
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@Bovidae said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Siam said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@LABCAT said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
Peter Williams relaying a conversation with ICC chairman, ex NZC chairman, stating that we lose 100 grand for every test.
T20 earns, but tests cost too much - 6 tests at home and we're in the hole more than half a million.Reality sucks !
I think it is closer to a million per test NZC is losing, unless the test is against one of the big three.
Just repeating Peter Williams on the radio today. He said 100k
According to an article in The Telegraph written by a UK journo Tim Wigmore, that was in my local newspaper, NZC loses $830,000 per test if we aren't playing Aust, India or England. So what @LABCAT said.
Pakistan has 43 players and coaches/support staff in NZ with the Shaheens (Pakistan A) also playing matches. The accommodation and travel costs must be significant.
Good info.
I'd still like to see the maths though.
How do they work out the tv rights worth etc. Is that included in this figure? Or just the attendance etc. What about day-night tests etc.
Actually seemed better test crowds than usual this year. Boxing Day at the Mount makes a big difference. Now got Mount, Chch and Wellington getting good crowds at good ovals. Hamilton still lets us down and must bleed plenty of cash . An oval at Auckland would be a game changer.
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@Gunner said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@MN5 said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
I reckon the plan early today has to be get Nicholls to his ton, get a lead and then accelerate a bit. Possibly getting way ahead of ourselves but a niggly declaration leaving Pakistan half an hour to bat would work wonders.
Any other thoughts ?
Just keep piling on the runs!
What do we think is an acceptable total/lead from here, considering we're pretty much level pegging with 7 wickets in hand?
450 minimum, lead of 150?
Minimum
Would like more
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@KiwiMurph said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
Nicholls dropped again.
He's leading a charmed life this summer.
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@Gunner said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@KiwiMurph said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
Nicholls dropped again.
He's leading a charmed life this summer.
Dropped 7 times this summer apparently
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@Gunner said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@KiwiMurph said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
Nicholls dropped again.
He's leading a charmed life this summer.
While it's great for the team, it's incredibly frustrating with Conway ready for a crack. Why should Nichols be judged by the poor performance of the opposition?
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@delicatessen said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Gunner said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@KiwiMurph said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
Nicholls dropped again.
He's leading a charmed life this summer.
While it's great for the team, it's incredibly frustrating with Conway ready for a crack. Why should Nichols be judged by the poor performance of the opposition?
If we have excellent players who can't get a look in then that's good for NZ cricket.
Besides which as I posted earlier Rossco is having a slightly lean patch of late, Conway might get a shot there soon if he decides to retire ? ( he's 37 in March )
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@MN5 said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@delicatessen said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Gunner said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@KiwiMurph said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
Nicholls dropped again.
He's leading a charmed life this summer.
While it's great for the team, it's incredibly frustrating with Conway ready for a crack. Why should Nichols be judged by the poor performance of the opposition?
If we have excellent players who can't get a look in then that's good for NZ cricket.
Besides which as I posted earlier Rossco is having a slightly lean patch of late, Conway might get a shot there soon if he decides to retire ? ( he's 37 in March )
It's not through Nichols' ability that he can't get a look in. It's through Pakistans ineptitude.
Rossco is not looking like he's trying to play test cricket at the minute. Almost like he's been asked to play a more attacking role? Either way he's not shelving his dangerous shots at all, which worked for that quick 70 the other day but looks a bit out of place after two quick wickets.
Either way, they shouldn't drop Rossco before Nichols if Nichols has given more chances early in his innings than Taylor has. No idea if that's the case tbf.
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Nichols teeing off
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@Hooroo said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Gunner said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
250 partnership up, interestingly only 221 of those are off the bat. That is a lot of extras.
A few byes down leg side for four where the ball has kept swinging away from the keeper
b 10, lb 7, nb 10, w 7
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@Gunner said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Hooroo said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Gunner said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
250 partnership up, interestingly only 221 of those are off the bat. That is a lot of extras.
A few byes down leg side for four where the ball has kept swinging away from the keeper
b 10, lb 7, nb 10, w 7
That's terrible
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