Investing - Property/Shares
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@NTA said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@MajorRage said in Investing - Property/Shares:
My view on the cars, as a car nut, is that the are actually quite shit. The handling is average at best, the wear on them is horrific, and they date really badly. They go like shit off a shovel off the mark though, and they are extremely trendy. If you compare a 2014 Model S to pretty much so any similar priced model of that year, the Tesla looks the worst.
I've seen a few reviews of the Model 3 versus something Euro in the same area (like an M3) and generally it is competitive in the reviewer's eyes.
A fair few also say the Model 3 is well ahead of the Model S in terms of overall performance and handling. Must be the weight - around 500kg lighter than the S across each model.
I tried out a Model X when I was in the market last time and took it from Napier to Taupo. On the twisty uphill parts (apart from the straights) it wasn't much fun. I have that M3 engine in my car and emissions or not it is a beautiful, beautiful thing. If it was a girl I'd be showing it my etchings.
Back on topic though, if Apple's car rumors are true and if they can get the aesthetics and desirability right they're going to be a profit mill for some time yet. I'm intending to dip in some more when they drop off their earnings hype peak and hold them. I've been accumulating a few since I bought my first iBook and they've done me pretty well.
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@JC said in Investing - Property/Shares:
tried out a Model X when I was in the market last time and took it from Napier to Taupo. On the twisty uphill parts (apart from the straights) it wasn't much fun
Even heavier than the S! I never got the model X as a concept, but I'm not an American who needs 7 seats and likes gull wing doors
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@MajorRage said in Investing - Property/Shares:
Give up sleep more often - that's a great and informative post.Oh, it may be worth also looking at the future of electricity. It's something that seems to have gone un noticed that I'd look into. What will x million electric cars do to power supply?
I'd invest in companies rolling out the fast-charge stations. Going to be a bread and butter business sector, with a stable user base and a lot of start-ups will get snapped up by the big boys.
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@NTA said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@MajorRage said in Investing - Property/Shares:
My view on the cars, as a car nut, is that the are actually quite shit. The handling is average at best, the wear on them is horrific, and they date really badly. They go like shit off a shovel off the mark though, and they are extremely trendy. If you compare a 2014 Model S to pretty much so any similar priced model of that year, the Tesla looks the worst.
I've seen a few reviews of the Model 3 versus something Euro in the same area (like an M3) and generally it is competitive in the reviewer's eyes.
A fair few also say the Model 3 is well ahead of the Model S in terms of overall performance and handling. Must be the weight - around 500kg lighter than the S across each model.
I've not driven one for a few years now, but I've had a go behind the Roadster, Model S 70, Model S P90 & Model X. The roadster was the fastest acceleration I've ever felt, but was so bad in the corners it was laughable. The Model S 70 was such an impressive piece of kit but the build quality was rubbish. The 90 was as quick as the roadster, and I really loved it, but the price tag on it was nuts. Didn't like the Model X.
The one thing they all had in common though, was they all felt completely soul less.
I'm an old man these days though and don't mind being stuck in my ways. It appears I'm not alone too, as EV residuals are plummeting whilst 2nd hand 911's are currently going up. A buddy of mine works at the local Porsche dealership and said 2020 sales were the highest they'd had on record. They've got the Taycan now, I had drive day sorted but it got canned due to Covid unfortunately. The sales guy reckons it's amazing, it's incredible & it's mind blowing. But it's not, or even close to as good as, a 911.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@MajorRage said in Investing - Property/Shares:
Give up sleep more often - that's a great and informative post.Oh, it may be worth also looking at the future of electricity. It's something that seems to have gone un noticed that I'd look into. What will x million electric cars do to power supply?
I'd invest in companies rolling out the fast-charge stations. Going to be a bread and butter business sector, with a stable user base and a lot of start-ups will get snapped up by the big boys.
But where do they get the power from? Thats the question I have.
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@MajorRage said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@MajorRage said in Investing - Property/Shares:
Give up sleep more often - that's a great and informative post.Oh, it may be worth also looking at the future of electricity. It's something that seems to have gone un noticed that I'd look into. What will x million electric cars do to power supply?
I'd invest in companies rolling out the fast-charge stations. Going to be a bread and butter business sector, with a stable user base and a lot of start-ups will get snapped up by the big boys.
But where do they get the power from? Thats the question I have.
2 entirely different qns obviously.
As to the charging stations, I'd say they remain a pretty risky investment. How do you protect against a major petrol co adding their own to their existing infra? Or the roadside cafes doing the same. Or Tesla rolling out their own in a deal with Coles, Wooli, Tescos etc. I just don't see how you can pick a winner there with any confidence?
As to power generation, its not so simple to say more EVs = more electricity demand. Its about a completely different approach to electricity. Here in Oz we have a legacy setup of massive coal fired generation and power lines distributing that all the way along the eastern seaboard. Now we see a move to to distributed generation, where not only smaller power plants (almost all renewable) exist closer to loads, but also homes generating large portions of their power requirements. EVs can draw power from installed home batteries, and can act as a supplier of power when not being used. They're massive batteries at the end of the day.
The challenges are in some way technical, but really more about displacing the incumbents and the existing infrastructure.
I don't think we have a supply issue, just a big adjustment to make.
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@voodoo said in Investing - Property/Shares:
As to the charging stations, I'd say they remain a pretty risky investment. How do you protect against a major petrol co adding their own to their existing infra?
Saw an article covering just that, today:
Shell buys Ubitricity, UK's largest EV charging network
Shell acquires 100% of Ubitricity, the UK’s largest public EV charging network. The oil giant will release its net zero strategy in February.
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@voodoo said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@MajorRage said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@MajorRage said in Investing - Property/Shares:
Give up sleep more often - that's a great and informative post.Oh, it may be worth also looking at the future of electricity. It's something that seems to have gone un noticed that I'd look into. What will x million electric cars do to power supply?
I'd invest in companies rolling out the fast-charge stations. Going to be a bread and butter business sector, with a stable user base and a lot of start-ups will get snapped up by the big boys.
But where do they get the power from? Thats the question I have.
2 entirely different qns obviously.
As to the charging stations, I'd say they remain a pretty risky investment. How do you protect against a major petrol co adding their own to their existing infra? Or the roadside cafes doing the same. Or Tesla rolling out their own in a deal with Coles, Wooli, Tescos etc. I just don't see how you can pick a winner there with any confidence?
As to power generation, its not so simple to say more EVs = more electricity demand. Its about a completely different approach to electricity. Here in Oz we have a legacy setup of massive coal fired generation and power lines distributing that all the way along the eastern seaboard. Now we see a move to to distributed generation, where not only smaller power plants (almost all renewable) exist closer to loads, but also homes generating large portions of their power requirements. EVs can draw power from installed home batteries, and can act as a supplier of power when not being used. They're massive batteries at the end of the day.
The challenges are in some way technical, but really more about displacing the incumbents and the existing infrastructure.
I don't think we have a supply issue, just a big adjustment to make.
With all due respect, Australia sales of electric cars aren't going to be any real driver of anything. Energy sources down there are abundant.
I'm talking more Europe, China & US.
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@MajorRage said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@voodoo said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@MajorRage said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@MajorRage said in Investing - Property/Shares:
Give up sleep more often - that's a great and informative post.Oh, it may be worth also looking at the future of electricity. It's something that seems to have gone un noticed that I'd look into. What will x million electric cars do to power supply?
I'd invest in companies rolling out the fast-charge stations. Going to be a bread and butter business sector, with a stable user base and a lot of start-ups will get snapped up by the big boys.
But where do they get the power from? Thats the question I have.
2 entirely different qns obviously.
As to the charging stations, I'd say they remain a pretty risky investment. How do you protect against a major petrol co adding their own to their existing infra? Or the roadside cafes doing the same. Or Tesla rolling out their own in a deal with Coles, Wooli, Tescos etc. I just don't see how you can pick a winner there with any confidence?
As to power generation, its not so simple to say more EVs = more electricity demand. Its about a completely different approach to electricity. Here in Oz we have a legacy setup of massive coal fired generation and power lines distributing that all the way along the eastern seaboard. Now we see a move to to distributed generation, where not only smaller power plants (almost all renewable) exist closer to loads, but also homes generating large portions of their power requirements. EVs can draw power from installed home batteries, and can act as a supplier of power when not being used. They're massive batteries at the end of the day.
The challenges are in some way technical, but really more about displacing the incumbents and the existing infrastructure.
I don't think we have a supply issue, just a big adjustment to make.
With all due respect, Australia sales of electric cars aren't going to be any real driver of anything. Energy sources down there are abundant.
I'm talking more Europe, China & US.
You'll have to be more offensive than that to disrespect me
Europe is going through a transition for sure as it figures out what to do with nuclear, offshore wind, and a resurgence of thermal (gas) power. But China and the US really have no shortage of generation sources. China is developing renewables faster than any other country, again, its not a tech issue, its a desire issue. For them its more about security of supply than saving the environment, but the result is the same. Equally the US has plenty of resources available. They're really not that different to Australia, just on a much bigger scale.
And all of those countries will benefit from the points I mentioned earlier. As the grid gets smarter, EV's can help to smooth loads, power homes at certain times. Its not just a new, big drain on the power supply.
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@voodoo said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@MajorRage said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@voodoo said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@MajorRage said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@MajorRage said in Investing - Property/Shares:
Give up sleep more often - that's a great and informative post.Oh, it may be worth also looking at the future of electricity. It's something that seems to have gone un noticed that I'd look into. What will x million electric cars do to power supply?
I'd invest in companies rolling out the fast-charge stations. Going to be a bread and butter business sector, with a stable user base and a lot of start-ups will get snapped up by the big boys.
But where do they get the power from? Thats the question I have.
2 entirely different qns obviously.
As to the charging stations, I'd say they remain a pretty risky investment. How do you protect against a major petrol co adding their own to their existing infra? Or the roadside cafes doing the same. Or Tesla rolling out their own in a deal with Coles, Wooli, Tescos etc. I just don't see how you can pick a winner there with any confidence?
As to power generation, its not so simple to say more EVs = more electricity demand. Its about a completely different approach to electricity. Here in Oz we have a legacy setup of massive coal fired generation and power lines distributing that all the way along the eastern seaboard. Now we see a move to to distributed generation, where not only smaller power plants (almost all renewable) exist closer to loads, but also homes generating large portions of their power requirements. EVs can draw power from installed home batteries, and can act as a supplier of power when not being used. They're massive batteries at the end of the day.
The challenges are in some way technical, but really more about displacing the incumbents and the existing infrastructure.
I don't think we have a supply issue, just a big adjustment to make.
With all due respect, Australia sales of electric cars aren't going to be any real driver of anything. Energy sources down there are abundant.
I'm talking more Europe, China & US.
You'll have to be more offensive than that to disrespect me
Europe is going through a transition for sure as it figures out what to do with nuclear, offshore wind, and a resurgence of thermal (gas) power. But China and the US really have no shortage of generation sources. China is developing renewables faster than any other country, again, its not a tech issue, its a desire issue. For them its more about security of supply than saving the environment, but the result is the same. Equally the US has plenty of resources available. They're really not that different to Australia, just on a much bigger scale.
And all of those countries will benefit from the points I mentioned earlier. As the grid gets smarter, EV's can help to smooth loads, power homes at certain times. Its not just a new, big drain on the power supply.
I'll never profess to be an expert on this stuff but I will say this.
Either electric cars use more power or they don't. Smoothing loads / powering homes is all nice and box ticking, but it still must draw the electricity from somewhere.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@taniwharugby said in Happiness Scale:
@Snowy my bank manager suggested I should be looking at an investment property, I said yeah nah.
I'm not good with handling stress relating to finances and I expect that would just about kill me, am pretty risk adverse when it comes to money.
Dunno about other countries, but here in the UK investing in the top 100 shares (pretty simple & conservative strategy) and re-investing dividend income gives a better return than housing - even with the loopy property prices here.
As I think may have already been said, those returns are only realised when you sell. And when you see, you obviously have to pay CGT on that capital growth as well as finding somewhere to put your money (perhaps in another property and then you get whacked with stamp duty). Rental yields are very low, so buying and holding can be hard and oftentimes not even enough to cover the interest on your investment property's mortgage. This is OK if you can wrangle an interest only loan (quite possible with an investment property) and you live in Oz where negative gearing allows you offset the interest against all income (not just income from your investment property). In other countries, like the UK, it seems you have to be prepared either (a) to buy and hold for years, happily paying "extras" to finance your investment property, or (b) buy a complete bomb shelter and do it up for next to nothing.
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@canefan said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@taniwharugby said in Happiness Scale:
@Snowy my bank manager suggested I should be looking at an investment property, I said yeah nah.
I'm not good with handling stress relating to finances and I expect that would just about kill me, am pretty risk adverse when it comes to money.
A good ETF on the US stock market will give you decent gains with lower risk. Certainly more dynamic than the NZ market. Apple computer alone has averaged over 100% increase from it's 2011 price to date ($10 now $130). Pretty safe
An index that tracks the S&P 500 probably has enough diversification in it currently to guard against major losses unrelated to a general market collapse (which is obviously always possible). My concern is going forward, as the tech companies get bigger and bigger, whether that index is going to become to weighted to that sector and make those index funds less diversified.
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@voodoo said in Investing - Property/Shares:
As to the charging stations, I'd say they remain a pretty risky investment. How do you protect against a major petrol co adding their own to their existing infra? Or the roadside cafes doing the same. Or Tesla rolling out their own in a deal with Coles, Wooli, Tescos etc. I just don't see how you can pick a winner there with any confidence?
Good points.
It isn't just the location, it's also the charging (billing) infrastructure for fast-charge, the branding, tech and the links with the car companies that are valuable.
Audi have recently done a deal with a charging company to give £1,500 of free juice on a new car and Kia have done something clever with another company where you can book a slot for a fast charge as you drive.
As @NTA has just posted, Shell have ponied up to buy a major UK charging company. I'd reckon the investors trousered a fair profit on that deal. Tesco already provide free low Kwh charging points and could well be interested in doing a deal with similar companies - either on a franchise or re-branded basis.
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@Snowy said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@taniwharugby said in Happiness Scale:
@Snowy my bank manager suggested I should be looking at an investment property, I said yeah nah.
I'm not good with handling stress relating to finances and I expect that would just about kill me, am pretty risk adverse when it comes to money.
If you are getting into too much debt to do it, it would be pretty stressful.
Then you get a tenant who smokes P in it and things get ugly quickly, bloody bitch. Two young kids too. It was insured but it took me six months to sort it out. It's also getting more difficult to get rid of shit tenants with changes to laws. They aren't exactly helping with rental property shortages.
Yes to both comments above - tracker funds aren't a bad way to go and the diversity reduces risk. The same thing applies though, never be in a position where you have to sell, whatever the investment.
My old man, who has made plenty out of shares (was an accountant) gave me a tip when I was trading quite a lot and markets were quite volatile. If you have made a large capital gain sell what it cost you, and keep the rest. Effectively means that you have no risk as what you kept cost you nothing. Stress free stock holdings.
Define "Large"? And what would you do with the money once you have sold? Buy some other shares?
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@junior said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@canefan said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@taniwharugby said in Happiness Scale:
@Snowy my bank manager suggested I should be looking at an investment property, I said yeah nah.
I'm not good with handling stress relating to finances and I expect that would just about kill me, am pretty risk adverse when it comes to money.
A good ETF on the US stock market will give you decent gains with lower risk. Certainly more dynamic than the NZ market. Apple computer alone has averaged over 100% increase from it's 2011 price to date ($10 now $130). Pretty safe
An index that tracks the S&P 500 probably has enough diversification in it currently to guard against major losses unrelated to a general market collapse (which is obviously always possible). My concern is going forward, as the tech companies get bigger and bigger, whether that index is going to become to weighted to that sector and make those index funds less diversified.
I have some shares in Ark innovation. They have been selling off Tesla shares in order to maintain a 10% weighting in the portfolio
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I can really only talk about the UK, but here you can no longer off-set mortgage/loan interest against income on rental property and you get hit with CGT when you sell. You can make a fair bit of money moving from house to house and improving it, but that's disruptive if you have a family, you get hit for estate agents fees, Stamp duty & VAT on the cost of improving it.
But you can put £20k a year into an ISA with low charges and just let that grow, take the dividend income or invest in what shares or Unit Trusts you want and sell when you want - totally tax-free.
Ditto with pensions where you can put in up to £40k a year of your income (which is taken off your taxable income), let that grow and when you reach 50, you are effectively taxed at 11.5% on the first £55k of income
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@canefan said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@pakman said in Happiness Scale:
@canefan said in Happiness Scale:
@taniwharugby said in Happiness Scale:
@Snowy my bank manager suggested I should be looking at an investment property, I said yeah nah.
I'm not good with handling stress relating to finances and I expect that would just about kill me, am pretty risk adverse when it comes to money.
A good ETF on the US stock market will give you decent gains with lower risk. Certainly more dynamic than the NZ market. Apple computer alone has averaged over 100% increase from it's 2011 price to date ($10 now $130). Pretty safe
Be wary. Any rise in US interest rates would have substantial effect on tech prices. Which means US inflation is being watched as a leading indicator. It’s ticking up.
I've been in the market, in a relatively passive capacity, for over 10 years. It goes up and down, but as long as you don't plan to time the market to make a quick buck it always goes back up
Drip feeding it in to smooth out the highs and lows makes for a sensible approach. And spread the risk by spreading the investment
This is the smart things to do if you can play a long game. I like to set an upper and lower limit on the monthly amount I put in - when the market dips, I put in the upper limit so that I can potentially buy more for less and then vice versa when the market is up. I find it takes the stress out of trying to time the market, but allows you to take a small advantage of those times when there are dips.
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@junior said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@Snowy said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@taniwharugby said in Happiness Scale:
@Snowy my bank manager suggested I should be looking at an investment property, I said yeah nah.
I'm not good with handling stress relating to finances and I expect that would just about kill me, am pretty risk adverse when it comes to money.
If you are getting into too much debt to do it, it would be pretty stressful.
Then you get a tenant who smokes P in it and things get ugly quickly, bloody bitch. Two young kids too. It was insured but it took me six months to sort it out. It's also getting more difficult to get rid of shit tenants with changes to laws. They aren't exactly helping with rental property shortages.
Yes to both comments above - tracker funds aren't a bad way to go and the diversity reduces risk. The same thing applies though, never be in a position where you have to sell, whatever the investment.
My old man, who has made plenty out of shares (was an accountant) gave me a tip when I was trading quite a lot and markets were quite volatile. If you have made a large capital gain sell what it cost you, and keep the rest. Effectively means that you have no risk as what you kept cost you nothing. Stress free stock holdings.
Define "Large"? And what would you do with the money once you have sold? Buy some other shares?
Yes. Just add further diversity/ look for other opportunities for your portfolio.
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@junior said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@canefan said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@pakman said in Happiness Scale:
@canefan said in Happiness Scale:
@taniwharugby said in Happiness Scale:
@Snowy my bank manager suggested I should be looking at an investment property, I said yeah nah.
I'm not good with handling stress relating to finances and I expect that would just about kill me, am pretty risk adverse when it comes to money.
A good ETF on the US stock market will give you decent gains with lower risk. Certainly more dynamic than the NZ market. Apple computer alone has averaged over 100% increase from it's 2011 price to date ($10 now $130). Pretty safe
Be wary. Any rise in US interest rates would have substantial effect on tech prices. Which means US inflation is being watched as a leading indicator. It’s ticking up.
I've been in the market, in a relatively passive capacity, for over 10 years. It goes up and down, but as long as you don't plan to time the market to make a quick buck it always goes back up
Drip feeding it in to smooth out the highs and lows makes for a sensible approach. And spread the risk by spreading the investment
This is the smart things to do if you can play a long game. I like to set an upper and lower limit on the monthly amount I put in - when the market dips, I put in the upper limit so that I can potentially buy more for less and then vice versa when the market is up. I find it takes the stress out of trying to time the market, but allows you to take a small advantage of those times when there are dips.
Chasing the market is always dangerous, and right now there is a lot of temptation and the promise of quick gains.
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@canefan said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@junior said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@canefan said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@pakman said in Happiness Scale:
@canefan said in Happiness Scale:
@taniwharugby said in Happiness Scale:
@Snowy my bank manager suggested I should be looking at an investment property, I said yeah nah.
I'm not good with handling stress relating to finances and I expect that would just about kill me, am pretty risk adverse when it comes to money.
A good ETF on the US stock market will give you decent gains with lower risk. Certainly more dynamic than the NZ market. Apple computer alone has averaged over 100% increase from it's 2011 price to date ($10 now $130). Pretty safe
Be wary. Any rise in US interest rates would have substantial effect on tech prices. Which means US inflation is being watched as a leading indicator. It’s ticking up.
I've been in the market, in a relatively passive capacity, for over 10 years. It goes up and down, but as long as you don't plan to time the market to make a quick buck it always goes back up
Drip feeding it in to smooth out the highs and lows makes for a sensible approach. And spread the risk by spreading the investment
This is the smart things to do if you can play a long game. I like to set an upper and lower limit on the monthly amount I put in - when the market dips, I put in the upper limit so that I can potentially buy more for less and then vice versa when the market is up. I find it takes the stress out of trying to time the market, but allows you to take a small advantage of those times when there are dips.
Chasing the market is always dangerous, and right now there is a lot of temptation and the promise of quick gains.
I'm reminded of those poor saps who pour every cent they have into one stock as they see it head for the moon, only to lose everything. Trying to catch a falling knife at least has some measure of knowledge that they're guessing.
