Electric Vehicles
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Went to a traffic crash the other day involving a Tesla. The Firies rocked up to do their usual thing, (making the vehicles safe) noticed it was a Tesla and stood around scratching their heads. They did not know what to do. A couple of long phone calls later and all they could do was shrug their shoulders and hope nothing went to shit.
Also heard EVs are very expensive to repair when in a crash so insurance companies are writing them off more freely than they do with conventional vehicles. Not sure if that's true or not.
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@nta said in Electric Vehicles:
@kruse said in Electric Vehicles:
@voodoo said in Electric Vehicles:
@nta I don't know why folk get so hung up on range per charge. We can get 500km! We can get 600kms!
Who the heck cares? I'm more than happy to stop after 4 hours and stretch the legs for 20mins.
Does it only take 20 minutes to charge nowadays?
The main reason I haven't seriously considered an electric bike, is my understanding was that a full charge took hours, like overnight, for a car, and would probably still be a couple of hours for a bike.In addition to what @voodoo says above: electric bikes are probably always going to cap out at a certain charging rate simply because the hardware for fast charging adds weight and complexity to the electrical systems - need more wires, more thermal management etc.
Cheers - I hadn't realised that the fast-charging capability required more (and therefore heavier) hardware... but thinking about it, obviously it does - cause otherwise it wouldn't be "fast charging", it would just be "standard charging".
I see Energica is claiming they've got bikes which can do 400km, and a "quick charge" back to 80% in 42 minutes.
I could probably live with that, with a bit of extra thought around routes. -
@nta said in Electric Vehicles:
The rollout of charge points in the UK is quite good compared to a lot of places (outside Norway) but the problem as I understand it is the multiple vendors wanting to have their own app or card interface. Just put Tap n Go on all of them and that would be fixed.
There's some apps becoming available which allow you to pre-book and pay but the car dealers tell me the big problem is the charging vendors aren't really co-operating. Think it's something the government could/should step in and set some rules to make it as seamless as poss.
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@kruse said in Electric Vehicles:
I see Energica is claiming they've got bikes which can do 400km, and a "quick charge" back to 80% in 42 minutes.
Not me. Imagine getting to the recharge spot moments after someone else and having to wait for them before you can start. 42 minutes becomes 84. Stuff that. They would need way more charging outlets than potential customers.
Someone mentioned prebooking. Stuff that too. I don't want to be constrained by a booking. My stress would go through the roof if I was running late.
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@crazy-horse said in Electric Vehicles:
@kruse said in Electric Vehicles:
I see Energica is claiming they've got bikes which can do 400km, and a "quick charge" back to 80% in 42 minutes.
Not me. Imagine getting to the recharge spot moments after someone else and having to wait for them before you can start. 42 minutes becomes 84. Stuff that. They would need way more charging outlets than potential customers.
Someone mentioned prebooking. Stuff that too. I don't want to be constrained by a booking. My stress would go through the roof if I was running late.
I really wonder how densely populated areas will get by in this regard. Not so bad where larger properties can put in their own charging capabilities but I’m picturing all the cars in London attached to extension cords out the window of the terraced house. One charging station per block won’t cut it.
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@crucial we might end up with charging stations on the footpath like the old parking metres? Or a charging point in the ground that you connect up to when you park up for the night? Which ever way it goes it's going to take a bit of work.
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@crazy-horse said in Electric Vehicles:
@crucial we might end up with charging stations on the footpath like the old parking metres? Or a charging point in the ground that you connect up to when you park up for the night? Which ever way it goes it's going to take a bit of work.
Have seen a few companies in Europe integrating with lighting infrastructure etc
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My concern is that rolling out charging infrastructure becomes a closed cycle i.e. because we have built the infrastructure we commit long term to EV. Whereas I think hydrogen is the way forward, much cleaner and needs no costly infrastructure.
For those old enough a bit like VHS V Betamax. The inferior system won out because it became ubiquitous. Car manufacturers now have a vested industry in the EV industry despite it being relatively inefficient and environmentally suspect.
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@dogmeat EV charging infrastructure is pretty cheap though. You can buy a 2-gun charger that will charge a bus in 40 minutes (if you ramp it right the fuck up) for less than $50k. When you consider the bus costs upwards of 12 times that per unit...
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@dogmeat said in Electric Vehicles:
My concern is that rolling out charging infrastructure becomes a closed cycle i.e. because we have built the infrastructure we commit long term to EV. Whereas I think hydrogen is the way forward, much cleaner and needs no costly infrastructure.
For those old enough a bit like VHS V Betamax. The inferior system won out because it became ubiquitous. Car manufacturers now have a vested industry in the EV industry despite it being relatively inefficient and environmentally suspect.
So if porn selects EV over hydrogen, that will be the key difference?
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@dogmeat said in Electric Vehicles:
My concern is that rolling out charging infrastructure becomes a closed cycle i.e. because we have built the infrastructure we commit long term to EV. Whereas I think hydrogen is the way forward, much cleaner and needs no costly infrastructure.
For those old enough a bit like VHS V Betamax. The inferior system won out because it became ubiquitous. Car manufacturers now have a vested industry in the EV industry despite it being relatively inefficient and environmentally suspect.
I think there is room for both in a petrol / diesel sort of manner. Electric is killing it at the moment & I've read / heard little of hydrogen technology of late honestly.
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@dogmeat said in Electric Vehicles:
My concern is that rolling out charging infrastructure becomes a closed cycle i.e. because we have built the infrastructure we commit long term to EV. Whereas I think hydrogen is the way forward, much cleaner and needs no costly infrastructure.
For those old enough a bit like VHS V Betamax. The inferior system won out because it became ubiquitous. Car manufacturers now have a vested industry in the EV industry despite it being relatively inefficient and environmentally suspect.
Hydrogen will dominate the large transport sector.
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Major manufacturer drops hydrogen trucks in favor of battery-electrics
Where will hydrogen fit in the clean transport mix? Not in trucking, says one of the world's largest heavy duty vehicle manufacturers, which is scaling back its fuel cell big-rig research and development operations in favor of battery-electric power.
Major manufacturer drops hydrogen trucks in favor of battery-electrics
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@mariner4life said in Electric Vehicles:
@dogmeat EV charging infrastructure is pretty cheap though. You can buy a 2-gun charger that will charge a bus in 40 minutes (if you ramp it right the fuck up) for less than $50k. When you consider the bus costs upwards of 12 times that per unit...
The other factor: electricity is already everywhere. Just need to put the right spout on it to feed your vehicle.
Hydrogen will have uses no doubt BUT they'll be highly specialised. Creating hydrogen for transport is easy enough, but they're well behind the game when it comes to a distribution network.
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@antipodean said in Electric Vehicles:
@dogmeat said in Electric Vehicles:
My concern is that rolling out charging infrastructure becomes a closed cycle i.e. because we have built the infrastructure we commit long term to EV. Whereas I think hydrogen is the way forward, much cleaner and needs no costly infrastructure.
For those old enough a bit like VHS V Betamax. The inferior system won out because it became ubiquitous. Car manufacturers now have a vested industry in the EV industry despite it being relatively inefficient and environmentally suspect.
Hydrogen will dominate the large transport sector.
the big advantages of electricity is it's simplicity (for the vehicle) and the ubiquity of the grid. Recharging will become a thing I reckon - with chargers just proliferating along with electric vehicles.
Don't underestimate the headaches with storing and transferring hydrogen either - and having to make the bloody stuff in the first place! It's a super important alternative fuel, but I can't see it displacing electrical for most vehicles.
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@crazy-horse said in Electric Vehicles:
@kruse said in Electric Vehicles:
I see Energica is claiming they've got bikes which can do 400km, and a "quick charge" back to 80% in 42 minutes.
Not me. Imagine getting to the recharge spot moments after someone else and having to wait for them before you can start. 42 minutes becomes 84. Stuff that. They would need way more charging outlets than potential customers.
Someone mentioned prebooking. Stuff that too. I don't want to be constrained by a booking. My stress would go through the roof if I was running late.
Yeah this is my concern too. How often would you be charging right up until you leave? So that makes the length you've got left even shorter, plus it's not like you're gonna go right up to the limit, so bring that 4 hours closer to 3....then you gotta wait your turn to charge 20 mins to take you SFA further...
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@nzzp said in Electric Vehicles:
@antipodean said in Electric Vehicles:
@dogmeat said in Electric Vehicles:
My concern is that rolling out charging infrastructure becomes a closed cycle i.e. because we have built the infrastructure we commit long term to EV. Whereas I think hydrogen is the way forward, much cleaner and needs no costly infrastructure.
For those old enough a bit like VHS V Betamax. The inferior system won out because it became ubiquitous. Car manufacturers now have a vested industry in the EV industry despite it being relatively inefficient and environmentally suspect.
Hydrogen will dominate the large transport sector.
the big advantages of electricity is it's simplicity (for the vehicle) and the ubiquity of the grid. Recharging will become a thing I reckon - with chargers just proliferating along with electric vehicles.
Don't underestimate the headaches with storing and transferring hydrogen either - and having to make the bloody stuff in the first place! It's a super important alternative fuel, but I can't see it displacing electrical for most vehicles.
Batteries simply don't work for interstate b-doubles, ships and planes. They're too heavy. That's not to diminish the challenges of storage which are orders of magnitude more difficult than LPG.
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@nta said in Electric Vehicles:
In addition to what @voodoo says above: electric bikes are probably always going to cap out at a certain charging rate simply because the hardware for fast charging adds weight and complexity to the electrical systems - need more wires, more thermal management etc.
Fascinated by that. You would have thought the thermal management components would be quite light and the thicker conductors would only add a few pounds. Is it the battery construction itself which adds all the weight?
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@victor-meldrew said in Electric Vehicles:
@nta said in Electric Vehicles:
In addition to what @voodoo says above: electric bikes are probably always going to cap out at a certain charging rate simply because the hardware for fast charging adds weight and complexity to the electrical systems - need more wires, more thermal management etc.
Fascinated by that. You would have thought the thermal management components would be quite light and the thicker conductors would only add a few pounds. Is it the battery construction itself which adds all the weight?
Should have clarified: the thermal management of the battery itself. Having liquid cooling is the only way to guarantee you can get the battery to the optimum fast-charge temperatures in any condition.
You can do that on a motorcycle but the scales of construction don't work as well, because you simply have mass restrictions - also centre of gravity issues on a bike versus a car.
