All Blacks 2021
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@nepia Yep, one of the reasons underlying this strange rule is to ensure that the residency is uninterrupted by "longish" stays in the player's country of origin before they represent their new country.
If they just checked whether a player hasn't been back to his home country in the period between the date he has met the 3-year residency period and the date on which he represents his new country for the first time, that should be enough. Instead, they want the player to immediately represent the new country when the residency requirement is met. That's just silly if players - due to circumstances beyond anyone's control (pandemic, injury) - can't represent their new country immediately.
@stargazer said in All Blacks 2021:
If they just checked whether a player hasn't been back to his home country in the period between the date he has met the 3-year residency period and the date on which he represents his new country for the first time, that should be enough.
I don't think that would work unless I have misunderstood.
Restricting players from going home? When injured? In Fakatava's case that could be a long time away from his family when he could be with them recuperating.Our tax laws have total days in country to overcome these sorts of thing as well as how recent it was. I spent two weeks in Tahiti because I couldn't set foot in NZ (even though I was / am a citizen) because I would have to pay tax on overseas income. It was a choice of give the tax to the IRD or the Tahitian people. I had no ulterior motive in my decision and Tahiti was very nice.
They just need to make exceptions for these sorts of things. Injuries suck, but they happen, and it won't change the rule. If someone tries to fake an injury it's pretty simple to put a date on their eligibility. What have I missed?
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@stargazer said in All Blacks 2021:
I guess a cap for the Wheel Blacks doesn't count?
Creative thinking but wheelchair rugby is an Olympic sport so then that would surely tie a player to that country.
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@stargazer said in All Blacks 2021:
I guess a cap for the Wheel Blacks doesn't count?
Worth a try. WR have done worse.
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@stargazer said in All Blacks 2021:
If they just checked whether a player hasn't been back to his home country in the period between the date he has met the 3-year residency period and the date on which he represents his new country for the first time, that should be enough.
I don't think that would work unless I have misunderstood.
Restricting players from going home? When injured? In Fakatava's case that could be a long time away from his family when he could be with them recuperating.Our tax laws have total days in country to overcome these sorts of thing as well as how recent it was. I spent two weeks in Tahiti because I couldn't set foot in NZ (even though I was / am a citizen) because I would have to pay tax on overseas income. It was a choice of give the tax to the IRD or the Tahitian people. I had no ulterior motive in my decision and Tahiti was very nice.
They just need to make exceptions for these sorts of things. Injuries suck, but they happen, and it won't change the rule. If someone tries to fake an injury it's pretty simple to put a date on their eligibility. What have I missed?
@snowy No, I'm not suggesting that it would be impossible to have short visits home. WR already have rules around what constitutes an interruption of residency, and what not. IMO they should/could apply similar rules to those in this situation.
Btw, I don't think Fakatava will go to Tonga to recuperate. He has all the assistance with his rehab here in NZ (doctors, physios, conditioning coach etc). I expect him to mostly stay in Dunedin for the duration of SR and then Hawke's Bay for the rest of the year, with maybe short visits to Tonga and Aussie (where he also has family) if the COVID situations allows it.
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@snowy No, I'm not suggesting that it would be impossible to have short visits home. WR already have rules around what constitutes an interruption of residency, and what not. IMO they should/could apply similar rules to those in this situation.
Btw, I don't think Fakatava will go to Tonga to recuperate. He has all the assistance with his rehab here in NZ (doctors, physios, conditioning coach etc). I expect him to mostly stay in Dunedin for the duration of SR and then Hawke's Bay for the rest of the year, with maybe short visits to Tonga and Aussie (where he also has family) if the COVID situations allows it.
@stargazer said in All Blacks 2021:
WR already have rules around what constitutes an interruption of residency, and what not. IMO they should/could apply similar rules to those in this situation.
Yes, an exemption due to injury would be reasonable, as mentioned.
As for his specific case and going to Tonga to be with family, or whatever, he should be allowed to do so, without the new / delayed eligibility rules applying. He's broken, he can't play, but he was eligible at the time of breaking. Whether he wants to is up to him.
The tax laws use "domicile" rather than "residency". There is a difference and can be used in law. WR might be better to use it as well.
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@stargazer said in All Blacks 2021:
WR already have rules around what constitutes an interruption of residency, and what not. IMO they should/could apply similar rules to those in this situation.
Yes, an exemption due to injury would be reasonable, as mentioned.
As for his specific case and going to Tonga to be with family, or whatever, he should be allowed to do so, without the new / delayed eligibility rules applying. He's broken, he can't play, but he was eligible at the time of breaking. Whether he wants to is up to him.
The tax laws use "domicile" rather than "residency". There is a difference and can be used in law. WR might be better to use it as well.
@snowy This is what the Explanatory Guidelines on the Implementation of Guideline 8 (Eligibility) says:
- Will short breaks interrupt a period of Residence?
Short breaks in Residence, for example, for holidays, attending family/friends in other countries who may be ill etc., are unlikely to change the place/location of a Player’s primary and permanent home and are, therefore, unlikely to interrupt a Player’s period of Residence. By way of a guideline, however, as a minimum requirement, it is likely that, save in exceptional circumstances, at least 10 months actual physical presence of the Player in the country concerned throughout any qualifying year of the Residency period, will be required to demonstrate that the country is the place where the Player has his primary and permanent home.
It uses the term "residence", not "residency", which is something else.
- Will short breaks interrupt a period of Residence?
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@snowy This is what the Explanatory Guidelines on the Implementation of Guideline 8 (Eligibility) says:
- Will short breaks interrupt a period of Residence?
Short breaks in Residence, for example, for holidays, attending family/friends in other countries who may be ill etc., are unlikely to change the place/location of a Player’s primary and permanent home and are, therefore, unlikely to interrupt a Player’s period of Residence. By way of a guideline, however, as a minimum requirement, it is likely that, save in exceptional circumstances, at least 10 months actual physical presence of the Player in the country concerned throughout any qualifying year of the Residency period, will be required to demonstrate that the country is the place where the Player has his primary and permanent home.
It uses the term "residence", not "residency", which is something else.
@stargazer said in All Blacks 2021:
It uses the term "residence", not "residency", which is something else.
Yes it is. Is also why they have the very last bit which is where they are domiciled.
- Will short breaks interrupt a period of Residence?
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@stargazer said in All Blacks 2021:
WR already have rules around what constitutes an interruption of residency, and what not. IMO they should/could apply similar rules to those in this situation.
Yes, an exemption due to injury would be reasonable, as mentioned.
As for his specific case and going to Tonga to be with family, or whatever, he should be allowed to do so, without the new / delayed eligibility rules applying. He's broken, he can't play, but he was eligible at the time of breaking. Whether he wants to is up to him.
The tax laws use "domicile" rather than "residency". There is a difference and can be used in law. WR might be better to use it as well.
@snowy said in All Blacks 2021:
@stargazer said in All Blacks 2021:
WR already have rules around what constitutes an interruption of residency, and what not. IMO they should/could apply similar rules to those in this situation.
Yes, an exemption due to injury would be reasonable, as mentioned.
As for his specific case and going to Tonga to be with family, or whatever, he should be allowed to do so, without the new / delayed eligibility rules applying. He's broken, he can't play, but he was eligible at the time of breaking. Whether he wants to is up to him.
The tax laws use "domicile" rather than "residency". There is a difference and can be used in law. WR might be better to use it as well.
Surely we should be able to put in writing that we would have selected him if fit, at the very least have him travel with the squad this year to learn, even if he can't play.
That would be us putting our money where our mouth is and stop silliness getting around the rules.
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@snowy said in All Blacks 2021:
@stargazer said in All Blacks 2021:
WR already have rules around what constitutes an interruption of residency, and what not. IMO they should/could apply similar rules to those in this situation.
Yes, an exemption due to injury would be reasonable, as mentioned.
As for his specific case and going to Tonga to be with family, or whatever, he should be allowed to do so, without the new / delayed eligibility rules applying. He's broken, he can't play, but he was eligible at the time of breaking. Whether he wants to is up to him.
The tax laws use "domicile" rather than "residency". There is a difference and can be used in law. WR might be better to use it as well.
Surely we should be able to put in writing that we would have selected him if fit, at the very least have him travel with the squad this year to learn, even if he can't play.
That would be us putting our money where our mouth is and stop silliness getting around the rules.
@kirwan said in All Blacks 2021:
@snowy said in All Blacks 2021:
@stargazer said in All Blacks 2021:
WR already have rules around what constitutes an interruption of residency, and what not. IMO they should/could apply similar rules to those in this situation.
Yes, an exemption due to injury would be reasonable, as mentioned.
As for his specific case and going to Tonga to be with family, or whatever, he should be allowed to do so, without the new / delayed eligibility rules applying. He's broken, he can't play, but he was eligible at the time of breaking. Whether he wants to is up to him.
The tax laws use "domicile" rather than "residency". There is a difference and can be used in law. WR might be better to use it as well.
Surely we should be able to put in writing that we would have selected him if fit, at the very least have him travel with the squad this year to learn, even if he can't play.
That would be us putting our money where our mouth is and stop silliness getting around the rules.
Absolutely. Common sense should prevail but well, life. It does apply in other situations as well, a signed declaration of intent along with funds paid is usually enough.
If we did it all the time I would understand questions could be asked, but this is pretty obvious (and reasonable).
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No discussion about 7/8 options to replace Ardie?
Well, 7 options really.
Cane
Savea
Papalii
??@booboo said in All Blacks 2021:
No discussion about 7/8 options to replace Ardie?
Well, 7 options really.
Cane
Savea
Papalii
??Boshier?
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2021:
No discussion about 7/8 options to replace Ardie?
Well, 7 options really.
Cane
Savea
Papalii
??Boshier?
@nostrildamus Ardie will be back for the All Blacks won’t he? He’s only out for 6-8 weeks.
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@nostrildamus Ardie will be back for the All Blacks won’t he? He’s only out for 6-8 weeks.
@canes4life said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus Ardie will be back for the All Blacks won’t he? He’s only out for 6-8 weeks.
Dunno but anyway Foster might leave Ardie at 8..
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2021:
No discussion about 7/8 options to replace Ardie?
Well, 7 options really.
Cane
Savea
Papalii
??Boshier?
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2021:
No discussion about 7/8 options to replace Ardie?
Well, 7 options really.
Cane
Savea
Papalii
??Boshier?
Clearly Kirifi is in the mix, he was called into the the squad last year.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2021:
No discussion about 7/8 options to replace Ardie?
Well, 7 options really.
Cane
Savea
Papalii
??Boshier?
Clearly Kirifi is in the mix, he was called into the the squad last year.
@gunner said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2021:
No discussion about 7/8 options to replace Ardie?
Well, 7 options really.
Cane
Savea
Papalii
??Boshier?
Clearly Kirifi is in the mix, he was called into the the squad last year.
I just have heightist issues about a 7 who looks like Tyrion Lannister has got into roids and reggae..
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/123157930/all-blacks-coach-ian-foster-on-how-duplessis-kirifi-got-the-nod-over-lachlan-boshier -
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2021:
No discussion about 7/8 options to replace Ardie?
Well, 7 options really.
Cane
Savea
Papalii
??Boshier?
Clearly Kirifi is in the mix, he was called into the the squad last year.
@gunner said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2021:
No discussion about 7/8 options to replace Ardie?
Well, 7 options really.
Cane
Savea
Papalii
??Boshier?
Clearly Kirifi is in the mix, he was called into the the squad last year.
Which says plenty about the depth in NZ rugby.
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Got my feet up post-jab, having a guess at the team for the first test in the light of recent injuries
- Joe Moody (if he can recover in time)
- Codie Taylor
- Nepo Lualala
- Sam Whitelock
- Brodie Retallick
- Akira Ioane
- Dalton Papali'i
- Hoskins Sotutu
- Aaron Smith
- Damien McKenzie
- Caleb Clarke (Maybe Leicester F)
- David Havili
- Anton Leinert-Brown
- Will Jordan
- Jordie Barrett
- Asafa Aumua
- Alex Hodgman
- Ofa T
- Scott Barrett
- Shannon Frizell (Ardie Savea if fit in time)
- Brad Weber
- Beauden Barrett (could be Richie Mo'unga)
- Reiko Ioane
Think we will be better than everyone apart from the Boks and perhaps the French.
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Got my feet up post-jab, having a guess at the team for the first test in the light of recent injuries
- Joe Moody (if he can recover in time)
- Codie Taylor
- Nepo Lualala
- Sam Whitelock
- Brodie Retallick
- Akira Ioane
- Dalton Papali'i
- Hoskins Sotutu
- Aaron Smith
- Damien McKenzie
- Caleb Clarke (Maybe Leicester F)
- David Havili
- Anton Leinert-Brown
- Will Jordan
- Jordie Barrett
- Asafa Aumua
- Alex Hodgman
- Ofa T
- Scott Barrett
- Shannon Frizell (Ardie Savea if fit in time)
- Brad Weber
- Beauden Barrett (could be Richie Mo'unga)
- Reiko Ioane
Think we will be better than everyone apart from the Boks and perhaps the French.
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@sparky that's the same loose trio and TH that got pretty roundly smacked on Friday night by a relative bunch of no names.
@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky that's the same loose trio and TH that got pretty roundly smacked on Friday night by a relative bunch of no names.
Ethan De Groot and Billy Harmon might be worth a call up to the ABs squad. Will need to watch more of them. Wouldn't put them in the First Test team though. Don't think there will be many new ABs.
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@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky that's the same loose trio and TH that got pretty roundly smacked on Friday night by a relative bunch of no names.
Ethan De Groot and Billy Harmon might be worth a call up to the ABs squad. Will need to watch more of them. Wouldn't put them in the First Test team though. Don't think there will be many new ABs.
@sparky said in All Blacks 2021:
@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky that's the same loose trio and TH that got pretty roundly smacked on Friday night by a relative bunch of no names.
Ethan De Groot and Billy Harmon might be worth a call up to the ABs squad. Will need to watch more of them. Wouldn't put them in the First Test team though. Don't think there will be many new ABs.
Neither would I - but if that doesn't worry you, you're an easily pleased man. I'd certainly be hesitant to say that forward pack would take apart most everybody. I think the answers might lie outside the blues...
