Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?
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@crucial doesnt necessarily make them experts on the detail of this proposal...?
@taniwharugby said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@crucial doesnt necessarily make them experts on the detail of this proposal...?
No, but that wasn't the question.
I simply stated that I think he has made good investment decisions in the past.
Anyway he isn'y commenting as an investment advisor, he is commenting on the way the SL deal has been presented and what he has been told about private equity deals in sports. -
@booboo or his knowledge of all the finer detail.
Surely NZR have already investigated floating on the sharemarket at some point?
@taniwharugby said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@booboo or his knowledge of all the finer detail.
Surely NZR have already investigated floating on the sharemarket at some point?
You'd hope
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@taniwharugby said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@booboo or his knowledge of all the finer detail.
Surely NZR have already investigated floating on the sharemarket at some point?
You'd hope
@booboo said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@taniwharugby said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@booboo or his knowledge of all the finer detail.
Surely NZR have already investigated floating on the sharemarket at some point?
You'd hope
Given the way they have handled absolutely everything else since Robinson took over, I would seriously question whether they had unfortunately.
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@booboo said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@sparky said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
The McGod has spoken against the Silver Lake deal. Listen to the GOAT, folks, listen to the GOAT.
Good rugby player.
How's his corporate financial acumen? Genuine question.
Weird post.
Great Rugby Player. Nothing wrong with his intellect or his financial acumen as far as I'm aware. Invested more in the Black Jersey than the rest of us.
@sparky said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@booboo said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@sparky said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
The McGod has spoken against the Silver Lake deal. Listen to the GOAT, folks, listen to the GOAT.
Good rugby player.
How's his corporate financial acumen? Genuine question.
Weird post.
Great Rugby Player. Nothing wrong with his intellect or his financial acumen as far as I'm aware. Invested more in the Black Jersey than the rest of us.
Why is it weird?
Is a genuine question.
Why do you think that "Richie" speaks means that he has any idea how the deal works? He may, but how?
Weider that you think he is an expert in international finance and marketing just because he was a decent footy player.
I'll acknowledge he is invested and across corporate financials in his participation in the retirement industry.
I'll acknowledge that he is invested in "The Black Jersey". But is he invested in the not for profit areas of NZ rugby?
What gets me about this issue is that the ONLY body which is against the deal is the only part of NZ rugby which exists to benefit its members directly. Each provincial union, and the NZ Maori have all voted in favour. And they exist for the not for profit side if the organisation.
It just stinks of the players chasing dollars to me.
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@sparky said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@booboo said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@sparky said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
The McGod has spoken against the Silver Lake deal. Listen to the GOAT, folks, listen to the GOAT.
Good rugby player.
How's his corporate financial acumen? Genuine question.
Weird post.
Great Rugby Player. Nothing wrong with his intellect or his financial acumen as far as I'm aware. Invested more in the Black Jersey than the rest of us.
Why is it weird?
Is a genuine question.
Why do you think that "Richie" speaks means that he has any idea how the deal works? He may, but how?
Weider that you think he is an expert in international finance and marketing just because he was a decent footy player.
I'll acknowledge he is invested and across corporate financials in his participation in the retirement industry.
I'll acknowledge that he is invested in "The Black Jersey". But is he invested in the not for profit areas of NZ rugby?
What gets me about this issue is that the ONLY body which is against the deal is the only part of NZ rugby which exists to benefit its members directly. Each provincial union, and the NZ Maori have all voted in favour. And they exist for the not for profit side if the organisation.
It just stinks of the players chasing dollars to me.
@booboo said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@sparky said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@booboo said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@sparky said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
The McGod has spoken against the Silver Lake deal. Listen to the GOAT, folks, listen to the GOAT.
Good rugby player.
How's his corporate financial acumen? Genuine question.
Weird post.
Great Rugby Player. Nothing wrong with his intellect or his financial acumen as far as I'm aware. Invested more in the Black Jersey than the rest of us.
Why is it weird?
Is a genuine question.
Why do you think that "Richie" speaks means that he has any idea how the deal works? He may, but how?
Weider that you think he is an expert in international finance and marketing just because he was a decent footy player.
I'll acknowledge he is invested and across corporate financials in his participation in the retirement industry.
I'll acknowledge that he is invested in "The Black Jersey". But is he invested in the not for profit areas of NZ rugby?
What gets me about this issue is that the ONLY body which is against the deal is the only part of NZ rugby which exists to benefit its members directly. Each provincial union, and the NZ Maori have all voted in favour. And they exist for the not for profit side if the organisation.
It just stinks of the players chasing dollars to me.
Funnily enough, because they don't stand to directly benefit from the short sugar hit, I trust them more.
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@sparky said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@booboo said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@sparky said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
The McGod has spoken against the Silver Lake deal. Listen to the GOAT, folks, listen to the GOAT.
Good rugby player.
How's his corporate financial acumen? Genuine question.
Weird post.
Great Rugby Player. Nothing wrong with his intellect or his financial acumen as far as I'm aware. Invested more in the Black Jersey than the rest of us.
Why is it weird?
Is a genuine question.
Why do you think that "Richie" speaks means that he has any idea how the deal works? He may, but how?
Weider that you think he is an expert in international finance and marketing just because he was a decent footy player.
I'll acknowledge he is invested and across corporate financials in his participation in the retirement industry.
I'll acknowledge that he is invested in "The Black Jersey". But is he invested in the not for profit areas of NZ rugby?
What gets me about this issue is that the ONLY body which is against the deal is the only part of NZ rugby which exists to benefit its members directly. Each provincial union, and the NZ Maori have all voted in favour. And they exist for the not for profit side if the organisation.
It just stinks of the players chasing dollars to me.
-
@sparky said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@booboo said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@sparky said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
The McGod has spoken against the Silver Lake deal. Listen to the GOAT, folks, listen to the GOAT.
Good rugby player.
How's his corporate financial acumen? Genuine question.
Weird post.
Great Rugby Player. Nothing wrong with his intellect or his financial acumen as far as I'm aware. Invested more in the Black Jersey than the rest of us.
Why is it weird?
Is a genuine question.
Why do you think that "Richie" speaks means that he has any idea how the deal works? He may, but how?
Weider that you think he is an expert in international finance and marketing just because he was a decent footy player.
I'll acknowledge he is invested and across corporate financials in his participation in the retirement industry.
I'll acknowledge that he is invested in "The Black Jersey". But is he invested in the not for profit areas of NZ rugby?
What gets me about this issue is that the ONLY body which is against the deal is the only part of NZ rugby which exists to benefit its members directly. Each provincial union, and the NZ Maori have all voted in favour. And they exist for the not for profit side if the organisation.
It just stinks of the players chasing dollars to me.
@booboo said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@sparky said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@booboo said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@sparky said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
The McGod has spoken against the Silver Lake deal. Listen to the GOAT, folks, listen to the GOAT.
Good rugby player.
How's his corporate financial acumen? Genuine question.
Weird post.
Great Rugby Player. Nothing wrong with his intellect or his financial acumen as far as I'm aware. Invested more in the Black Jersey than the rest of us.
Why is it weird?
Is a genuine question.
Why do you think that "Richie" speaks means that he has any idea how the deal works? He may, but how?
Weider that you think he is an expert in international finance and marketing just because he was a decent footy player.
I'll acknowledge he is invested and across corporate financials in his participation in the retirement industry.
I'll acknowledge that he is invested in "The Black Jersey". But is he invested in the not for profit areas of NZ rugby?
What gets me about this issue is that the ONLY body which is against the deal is the only part of NZ rugby which exists to benefit its members directly. Each provincial union, and the NZ Maori have all voted in favour. And they exist for the not for profit side if the organisation.
It just stinks of the players chasing dollars to me.
Funny I see it the other way. The NZRFU seem to to want chase the $. The short term sugar of what seems a large amount. They have always presented this as the only option, done deal. The feeling for me is that they expected all the stakeholders just to fall in line. They have tried to throw the players under the bus at every turn. Mark Robinsons tenure has been marked by impatience and the inability to work with others.
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Basic business. Dont sell your IP.
If your profits arent good enough change your board -
Basic business. Dont sell your IP.
If your profits arent good enough change your board@berniescorner said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
Basic business. Dont sell your IP.
If your profits arent good enough change your boardThat was my point in an earlier post but you are much more concise..
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@booboo said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@sparky said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@booboo said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@sparky said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
The McGod has spoken against the Silver Lake deal. Listen to the GOAT, folks, listen to the GOAT.
Good rugby player.
How's his corporate financial acumen? Genuine question.
Weird post.
Great Rugby Player. Nothing wrong with his intellect or his financial acumen as far as I'm aware. Invested more in the Black Jersey than the rest of us.
Why is it weird?
Is a genuine question.
Why do you think that "Richie" speaks means that he has any idea how the deal works? He may, but how?
Weider that you think he is an expert in international finance and marketing just because he was a decent footy player.
I'll acknowledge he is invested and across corporate financials in his participation in the retirement industry.
I'll acknowledge that he is invested in "The Black Jersey". But is he invested in the not for profit areas of NZ rugby?
What gets me about this issue is that the ONLY body which is against the deal is the only part of NZ rugby which exists to benefit its members directly. Each provincial union, and the NZ Maori have all voted in favour. And they exist for the not for profit side if the organisation.
It just stinks of the players chasing dollars to me.
Funny I see it the other way. The NZRFU seem to to want chase the $. The short term sugar of what seems a large amount. They have always presented this as the only option, done deal. The feeling for me is that they expected all the stakeholders just to fall in line. They have tried to throw the players under the bus at every turn. Mark Robinsons tenure has been marked by impatience and the inability to work with others.
@kev said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
They have always presented this as the only option, done deal.
They have had their financial guys explore all the other options, and have mentioned them often. One would imagine the stakeholders got far more info about those discarded options than we have. Which sucks really, they need to engage the public as well as those that vote.
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@kev said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
They have always presented this as the only option, done deal.
They have had their financial guys explore all the other options, and have mentioned them often. One would imagine the stakeholders got far more info about those discarded options than we have. Which sucks really, they need to engage the public as well as those that vote.
@machpants said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@kev said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
They have always presented this as the only option, done deal.
They have had their financial guys explore all the other options, and have mentioned them often. One would imagine the stakeholders got far more info about those discarded options than we have. Which sucks really, they need to engage the public as well as those that vote.
I don't know whether I'd trust them any more than I'd trust the players, probably less. Where is their big business and investment acumen?
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@machpants said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@kev said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
They have always presented this as the only option, done deal.
They have had their financial guys explore all the other options, and have mentioned them often. One would imagine the stakeholders got far more info about those discarded options than we have. Which sucks really, they need to engage the public as well as those that vote.
I don't know whether I'd trust them any more than I'd trust the players, probably less. Where is their big business and investment acumen?
@canefan Yeah but I trust the finacial people that ran through the scenarios that lead to this. Doesn't mean they are right and it is the only option, but they'll have don e their best to give the correct info to NZR. However someone is wrong with their numbers, either NZRs financial advisors or NZRPA's!
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@canefan Yeah but I trust the finacial people that ran through the scenarios that lead to this. Doesn't mean they are right and it is the only option, but they'll have don e their best to give the correct info to NZR. However someone is wrong with their numbers, either NZRs financial advisors or NZRPA's!
@machpants said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@canefan Yeah but I trust the finacial people that ran through the scenarios that lead to this. Doesn't mean they are right and it is the only option, but they'll have don e their best to give the correct info to NZR. However someone is wrong with their numbers, either NZRs financial advisors or NZRPA's!
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Hopefully this is not just so NZR can say, we looked at it
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@kev said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
They have always presented this as the only option, done deal.
They have had their financial guys explore all the other options, and have mentioned them often. One would imagine the stakeholders got far more info about those discarded options than we have. Which sucks really, they need to engage the public as well as those that vote.
@machpants said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@kev said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
They have always presented this as the only option, done deal.
They have had their financial guys explore all the other options, and have mentioned them often. One would imagine the stakeholders got far more info about those discarded options than we have. Which sucks really, they need to engage the public as well as those that vote.
I haven’t seen any mention of the other options? Please provide.
I still remember Northland and Ta$man being nominated to be permanently kicked out of top flight rugby by the management of NZRU. Same words used then. Forgive me if I doubt they have looked at all the options - just not possible. There are always more options - just depends on your mindset. Once we have sold 15% of our revenue to an overseas company who don’t care about Rugby we will never get it back.
I wonder if we have too many Businessmen on the board and we are just being told to drink the cool-aid. Most businesses are run on short term profitability objectives with high growth models, where selling assets to fund growth or for short term profit is part of business. I want a sustainable long term plan with NZ ownership all the way - non negotiable. Don’t care if the money is less in the short term.
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When Kirk lifted the WC in 87 you saw a true NZer.
Give him a decent wedge of NZR IPO share options exercised in 5 years and let him get on with it.
In 5 years if you haven't sorted your grass roots the profit isn't going to be good.
The current NZR board are amateurs. -
Razor is a cut above the rest
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@machpants said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@kev said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
They have always presented this as the only option, done deal.
They have had their financial guys explore all the other options, and have mentioned them often. One would imagine the stakeholders got far more info about those discarded options than we have. Which sucks really, they need to engage the public as well as those that vote.
I haven’t seen any mention of the other options? Please provide.
I still remember Northland and Ta$man being nominated to be permanently kicked out of top flight rugby by the management of NZRU. Same words used then. Forgive me if I doubt they have looked at all the options - just not possible. There are always more options - just depends on your mindset. Once we have sold 15% of our revenue to an overseas company who don’t care about Rugby we will never get it back.
I wonder if we have too many Businessmen on the board and we are just being told to drink the cool-aid. Most businesses are run on short term profitability objectives with high growth models, where selling assets to fund growth or for short term profit is part of business. I want a sustainable long term plan with NZ ownership all the way - non negotiable. Don’t care if the money is less in the short term.
@kev said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@machpants said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@kev said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
They have always presented this as the only option, done deal.
They have had their financial guys explore all the other options, and have mentioned them often. One would imagine the stakeholders got far more info about those discarded options than we have. Which sucks really, they need to engage the public as well as those that vote.
I haven’t seen any mention of the other options? Please provide.
I still remember Northland and Ta$man being nominated to be permanently kicked out of top flight rugby by the management of NZRU. Same words used then. Forgive me if I doubt they have looked at all the options - just not possible. There are always more options - just depends on your mindset. Once we have sold 15% of our revenue to an overseas company who don’t care about Rugby we will never get it back.
I wonder if we have too many Businessmen on the board and we are just being told to drink the cool-aid. Most businesses are run on short term profitability objectives with high growth models, where selling assets to fund growth or for short term profit is part of business. I want a sustainable long term plan with NZ ownership all the way - non negotiable. Don’t care if the money is less in the short term.
Have a google, in one of their letters out they said they looked a public listing, raising loans etc. None of which ticked the same number of boxes that the SL deal did, so they went SL. I’d hope those reports were available to the stakeholders, even if not us, to see why they were discarded. For ex they said a loan woouldn’t work as NZR don;t have anywhere enough assets to secure it, etc.
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This was probably posted back in the thread but worth another read in the current circumstances.
Reads like Knowler has been dined by NZRU to pitch the deal but if the facts are correct around the tightness and safeguards in the contract there seem to be a lot of the concerns ticked off.
My only query left (probably due to ignorance in these matters) is why selling 12.5% of an asset gives that shareholder 12.5% of income rather than profit?
I get why the NZRPA deal is struck that way. The concept is that the players are the commodity that generates the income and couldn't function if based on profit.
This deal seems to assume a lot about SL bringing more income to the books. -
@kev said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@machpants said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@kev said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
They have always presented this as the only option, done deal.
They have had their financial guys explore all the other options, and have mentioned them often. One would imagine the stakeholders got far more info about those discarded options than we have. Which sucks really, they need to engage the public as well as those that vote.
I haven’t seen any mention of the other options? Please provide.
I still remember Northland and Ta$man being nominated to be permanently kicked out of top flight rugby by the management of NZRU. Same words used then. Forgive me if I doubt they have looked at all the options - just not possible. There are always more options - just depends on your mindset. Once we have sold 15% of our revenue to an overseas company who don’t care about Rugby we will never get it back.
I wonder if we have too many Businessmen on the board and we are just being told to drink the cool-aid. Most businesses are run on short term profitability objectives with high growth models, where selling assets to fund growth or for short term profit is part of business. I want a sustainable long term plan with NZ ownership all the way - non negotiable. Don’t care if the money is less in the short term.
Have a google, in one of their letters out they said they looked a public listing, raising loans etc. None of which ticked the same number of boxes that the SL deal did, so they went SL. I’d hope those reports were available to the stakeholders, even if not us, to see why they were discarded. For ex they said a loan woouldn’t work as NZR don;t have anywhere enough assets to secure it, etc.
@machpants said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@kev said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@machpants said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@kev said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
They have always presented this as the only option, done deal.
They have had their financial guys explore all the other options, and have mentioned them often. One would imagine the stakeholders got far more info about those discarded options than we have. Which sucks really, they need to engage the public as well as those that vote.
I haven’t seen any mention of the other options? Please provide.
I still remember Northland and Ta$man being nominated to be permanently kicked out of top flight rugby by the management of NZRU. Same words used then. Forgive me if I doubt they have looked at all the options - just not possible. There are always more options - just depends on your mindset. Once we have sold 15% of our revenue to an overseas company who don’t care about Rugby we will never get it back.
I wonder if we have too many Businessmen on the board and we are just being told to drink the cool-aid. Most businesses are run on short term profitability objectives with high growth models, where selling assets to fund growth or for short term profit is part of business. I want a sustainable long term plan with NZ ownership all the way - non negotiable. Don’t care if the money is less in the short term.
Have a google, in one of their letters out they said they looked a public listing, raising loans etc. None of which ticked the same number of boxes that the SL deal did, so they went SL. I’d hope those reports were available to the stakeholders, even if not us, to see why they were discarded. For ex they said a loan woouldn’t work as NZR don;t have anywhere enough assets to secure it, etc.
It all comes down to the options looked at and how they evaluated them. Regardless they didn’t manage the conversation with stakeholders, the same way they messed up the Super Rugby conversation.
