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In MMA, where trans women have entered and busted up their opponents so badly, they have hospitalized their opponents. Joe Rogan is quite opinionated about this as well saying for safety's sake, they need to look at the "real" science.
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@no-quarter said in Trans weight lifter:
I just can't believe this is even up for debate let alone actually happening, and I'm utterly ashamed that NZ is sending a biological male to compete against women that have trained their whole lives for this moment.
so ... how do you stop it? It's the framework and the regulations that are wrong, not the individual athletes. If NZ Olympics didn't pick their best eligible athletes, there'd be judicial reviews and they'd get smacked. Their hands are tied, they are forced to be blind to this issue.
But yes, one of the outcomes could be destroying women's sport as we know it.
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@nzzp said in Trans weight lifter:
@no-quarter said in Trans weight lifter:
I just can't believe this is even up for debate let alone actually happening, and I'm utterly ashamed that NZ is sending a biological male to compete against women that have trained their whole lives for this moment.
so ... how do you stop it? It's the framework and the regulations that are wrong, not the individual athletes. If NZ Olympics didn't pick their best eligible athletes, there'd be judicial reviews and they'd get smacked. Their hands are tied, they are forced to be blind to this issue.
But yes, one of the outcomes could be destroying women's sport as we know it.
Unfortunately I don’t think you can. The movement and its allies have captured the debate. Only people on one side of the debate are allowed to participate, and men aren’t allowed to participate at all without being accused of bad faith - we’ve had a poster on here say “ I very much doubt that most male opinion on this topic is due to feeling sorry for women”. Any concern we may express for women is dismissed as bogus, a cover and a pretext for bigotry.
Women in the mainstream have been bullied into silence and the silence then disingenuously interpreted as support. Those women who don’t shut up are dismissed, and if they continue they are dispatched to their own little part of professional hell. You’d have to be one of the small subset of women who really are passionate about sport to expose yourself to that.
The exit from this nightmare is for the administrators to get a grip and refuse to throw female athletes to the wolves. But the IOC has long been a sinecure for the would-be jet set, they’re hardly guardians of sport. They are Will Carling’s 57 old farts. They put themselves forward for beanos to exotic locations and freebies, and they’re not going to jeopardise that for the sake of supporting a bunch of girls.
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@nzzp said in Trans weight lifter:
@no-quarter said in Trans weight lifter:
I just can't believe this is even up for debate let alone actually happening, and I'm utterly ashamed that NZ is sending a biological male to compete against women that have trained their whole lives for this moment.
so ... how do you stop it? It's the framework and the regulations that are wrong, not the individual athletes. If NZ Olympics didn't pick their best eligible athletes, there'd be judicial reviews and they'd get smacked. Their hands are tied, they are forced to be blind to this issue.
But yes, one of the outcomes could be destroying women's sport as we know it.
The only way to stop it is by women. Probably by women athletes. Probably via boycotts and then setting up rival organisations (and tournaments) as next step if administrators don't react.
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As a side-note the international governance of Olympic Weightlifting is total shit, lots of change around weight classes, qualification process, and ongoing tensions around drug testing and bans. I follow a lot of weightlifters and there is genuine concern that the sport might get booted from the Olympics and there are already fewer spots for Tokyo. Seems there is more concern within weightlifting about this situation than at the Olympic Committee level - where I guess they are setting standards for all competitors than any given sport.
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Haven't read any comments other than the initial but no sir I don't like it....not one bit!
All good for Hubbard doing what "she" loves and as the person she wants to be but I can't have her competing against women. I really feel for women who have trained all their lives as women and then come up against Hubbard in competition, or even worse when that are unable to compete or represent their country where Hubbard is say the only NZ representative.
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Ultimately it comes down to the competitors. The activists are the poison that kills these debates.
I'm obviously not pro this at all, and I have spent time wondering what on earth Hubbard is thinking. I think this is where the issue actually comes down to the finer points. In my view, Hubbard doesn't think what she's doing is wrong, in that she's never thought of herself as a man. Has always though of herself as a woman, and the reason she wasn't doing well prior to transition is that she was a woman competing in a man's sport. Whereby what Jenner has said, is coming from somebody who was a man, thought like a man, and has undergone a real physical and mental transition to be a woman. Thus, when she states her views, she's looking at like somebody who 100% transitioned.
So I kind of understand the viewpoint. It doesn't mean it should be pandered to all though. A person's desire to compete at the top level is always whats makes the distinction between the top and the very best. But a person's ability to get to the top is not always something that can be earned. I could never ever play top level sport, as my hand-eye is utter shit. Thats just something I had to accept as a teenager and move on. The same must apply to Hubbard.
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Interesting post.
I look at it from a slightly different perspective which is that many/most of the best sportspeople are total selfish piston wristed gibbons, so expecting Hubbard to be somehow different and consider their impact beyond wanting to compete and win seems slightly strange to me.
I have a huge problem with the policy and believe it should be changed, and I think it is a massive blow to female sport, but because I see people as primarily bad people who can be good (rather than the opposite), its the policy that is the problem. I don’t have anything specific to say about Lauren and her intentions.
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Transgender women allowed to play women's rugby in France
The French rugby federation (FFR) will allow transgender women to play women's rugby as of next season, going against World Rugby guidelines.
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For who can read French, here is the FFR's media release: https://www.ffr.fr/actualites/federation/la-ffr-sengage-pour-linclusion-des-trans-identitaires-dans-le-rugby
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Here’s what they can look forward too
Trans footy pioneer Hannah Mouncey plans legal action against AFL so she can play local footy
Trans footy pioneer plans legal action against AFL so she can play local footy
Feel sorry for the biological woman that will have to play men.
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@kirwan said in Trans in sport:
Here’s what they can look forward too
Trans footy pioneer Hannah Mouncey plans legal action against AFL so she can play local footy
Trans footy pioneer plans legal action against AFL so she can play local footy
Feel sorry for the biological woman that will have to play men.
The number of people you feel sorry for will start to diminish quickly.
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This stream is from a disabled transwoman athlete who is firmly of the belief that transwomen's participation in female sport is unfair. BTW she has some blistering opinions about Stonewall, Mermaids etc as well. Someone I'd love to have a drink with and hear her out.
One of the tweets:
So, Hubbard takes the place of a female athlete who has worked tirelessly to be the best & made huge personal sacrifices, only to have it taken away by someone who has been through male puberty. The IOC & sports bodies are promoting unfair, unethical & misogynous policy, repugnant.And:
Im almost tempted to get into a throwing frame & show up the absurdity of allowing bio M to compete in women's sports categories. Likely my first shot putt will break the current British Women's record, then logged in my name meaning that a woman is robbed of her achievement. No!
Edit: Hat tip to @No-Quarter , found through the link you provided earlier
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@no-quarter That's a remarkable presentation of the data. Would be amusing if it was submitted to one of those infographics awards.
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Transgender debate, in sport, in general
Kiwi weightlifter to become first trans athlete to compete at Olympics
