All Blacks 2021
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@stargazer Yeah I really can't see that happening LOL
@machpants Just added something more serious to my previous post.
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do we think Fakatava is so good we'd risk looking that desperate? non of the guys coming through U20's looks good?
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do we think Fakatava is so good we'd risk looking that desperate? non of the guys coming through U20's looks good?
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With 36 names, at least, to be announced in the All Blacks squad this Monday, it's unlikely there will be a host of wildly unpredictable selections or shock omissions.
We can expect a few new names, possibly Leicester Fainga'anuku, and maybe Salesi Ryasi and Finlay Christie, while Brodie Retallick, David Havili and Braydon Ennor should all return after not being involved last year for various reasons.
But 2021 isn't a fresh start year. The door isn't closed to new arrivals, but having only been able to play six tests last year, All Blacks coach Ian Foster has his sights set on building the experience and ability of the group he mostly used last year.
@tim said in All Blacks 2021:
But 2021 isn't a fresh start year. The door isn't closed to new arrivals, but having only been able to play six tests last year, All Blacks coach Ian Foster has his sights set on building the experience and ability of the group he mostly used last year.
awesome. same players, same coaches, but things will be different this time i promise...
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@kiwiwomble None of the U20s players are even close enough to be ready in time for the 2023 RWC (if they ever will).
@stargazer do we think the log jam of Super level half backs around the country has stopped some young blokes getting a call up in the last couple of years?
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@stargazer do we think the log jam of Super level half backs around the country has stopped some young blokes getting a call up in the last couple of years?
@kiwiwomble An ABs call-up? A log jam of SR level halfbacks? I'd say our depth at halfback - even at SR level - has been pretty thin. Very few of those seem good enough for the ABS, so I don't really see a log jam, let alone one that stops players from getting an ABs call-up. If a player starts shining at SR level, he has a good chance of making the ABs. Hence Fakatava coming into the conversation.
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@kiwiwomble An ABs call-up? A log jam of SR level halfbacks? I'd say our depth at halfback - even at SR level - has been pretty thin. Very few of those seem good enough for the ABS, so I don't really see a log jam, let alone one that stops players from getting an ABs call-up. If a player starts shining at SR level, he has a good chance of making the ABs. Hence Fakatava coming into the conversation.
@stargazer no super call up,
i mean, we have several "fine" super level halfbacks and the teams have defaulted to those based on their experience rather than gambling on bringing through younger guys as second and third choice halfbacks
like the crusaders have hall at 29 and drummond at 27 and their third guys is like 24, would it be better for the AB's if drummond or hall were swapped for a 20 year old getting 10-20 minutes every third game
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@stargazer no super call up,
i mean, we have several "fine" super level halfbacks and the teams have defaulted to those based on their experience rather than gambling on bringing through younger guys as second and third choice halfbacks
like the crusaders have hall at 29 and drummond at 27 and their third guys is like 24, would it be better for the AB's if drummond or hall were swapped for a 20 year old getting 10-20 minutes every third game
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
@stargazer no super call up,
i mean, we have several "fine" super level halfbacks and the teams have defaulted to those based on their experience rather than gambling on bringing through younger guys as second and third choice halfbacks
like the crusaders have hall at 29 and drummond at 27 and their third guys is like 24, would it be better for the AB's if drummond or hall were swapped for a 20 year old getting 10-20 minutes every third game
if the young guy was better he would play. The Super Rugby teams are there to win games, the ABs is supposed to be an offshoot of that.
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@stargazer no super call up,
i mean, we have several "fine" super level halfbacks and the teams have defaulted to those based on their experience rather than gambling on bringing through younger guys as second and third choice halfbacks
like the crusaders have hall at 29 and drummond at 27 and their third guys is like 24, would it be better for the AB's if drummond or hall were swapped for a 20 year old getting 10-20 minutes every third game
@kiwiwomble At SR level, Roe seems to have become Weber's back-up, just like Fakatava has claimed the back-up spot at the Landers. They did that by leapfrogging TTT and Hammington, respectively. So the better players are progressing. Enari hasn't been able to do the same at the Crusaders, but has had his chances and just didn't convince enough.
TJP never has really had any competition at the Canes, or even a lasting adequate back-up (Christie, TTT coming in and leaving; Booth injured, but never more than SR level; Taumateine is pretty average and the Campbell and Roigard are still very green, but have had a lot of game time this year). The Blues have had their endless rotation of players, but never one really standing out as a possible AB, but plenty of players used and getting chances over the years.
Which NPC halfbacks do you think have been stopped by the current crop of SR halfbacks?
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
@stargazer no super call up,
i mean, we have several "fine" super level halfbacks and the teams have defaulted to those based on their experience rather than gambling on bringing through younger guys as second and third choice halfbacks
like the crusaders have hall at 29 and drummond at 27 and their third guys is like 24, would it be better for the AB's if drummond or hall were swapped for a 20 year old getting 10-20 minutes every third game
if the young guy was better he would play. The Super Rugby teams are there to win games, the ABs is supposed to be an offshoot of that.
@mariner4life i agree 100%, just in the AB's thread i kind of change the focus to what would have been good, wouldn't suggest it in the super thread or a team one
@Stargazer i honestly have no idea, i struggle to keep up with otago let only all the other NPC team, these are really just question to educate myself more than anything, to understand how we've ended up with this giant gap between smith and the rest other than potentially fakatava
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@mariner4life i agree 100%, just in the AB's thread i kind of change the focus to what would have been good, wouldn't suggest it in the super thread or a team one
@Stargazer i honestly have no idea, i struggle to keep up with otago let only all the other NPC team, these are really just question to educate myself more than anything, to understand how we've ended up with this giant gap between smith and the rest other than potentially fakatava
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
@mariner4life i agree 100%, just in the AB's thread i kind of change the focus to what would have been good, wouldn't suggest it in the super thread or a team one
my point was more you have it backwards. the same guys aren't getting games that stifle development of a young gun, the same inadequate guys are getting a run because there is no one better coming through demanding selection. It's the same in a number of positions, most notably 10, where there is precisely one international standard 10 in the country.
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
@mariner4life i agree 100%, just in the AB's thread i kind of change the focus to what would have been good, wouldn't suggest it in the super thread or a team one
my point was more you have it backwards. the same guys aren't getting games that stifle development of a young gun, the same inadequate guys are getting a run because there is no one better coming through demanding selection. It's the same in a number of positions, most notably 10, where there is precisely one international standard 10 in the country.
@mariner4life fair enough if im missing things , just looks like our super teams default to experience currently rather than long term development, potentially because out super season are so short teams cant afford risking a result to develop someone
its hard for these youngs guys to leapfrog if they're not given games, to be chosen based on a NPC game 6 months ago or training
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@antipodean I'll laugh harder if Finlay Christie gets in.
@stargazer Well Jonathan Ruru didn't get a Maori call up so my guess is that he will be the 3rd AB halfback.....
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@stargazer Well Jonathan Ruru didn't get a Maori call up so my guess is that he will be the 3rd AB halfback.....
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@stargazer Well Jonathan Ruru didn't get a Maori call up so my guess is that he will be the 3rd AB halfback.....
@african-monkey said in All Blacks 2021:
@stargazer Well Jonathan Ruru didn't get a Maori call up so my guess is that he will be the 3rd AB halfback.....
Fuuuck No
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@tim said in All Blacks 2021:
But 2021 isn't a fresh start year. The door isn't closed to new arrivals, but having only been able to play six tests last year, All Blacks coach Ian Foster has his sights set on building the experience and ability of the group he mostly used last year.
awesome. same players, same coaches, but things will be different this time i promise...
@mariner4life haha yep...more so when he has these early tests v PI teams that we could unfortunately run out a complete 2nd 15 and still win comfortably, he will stick with his tried and (severely) tested players to hang his AB career on.
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
@mariner4life i agree 100%, just in the AB's thread i kind of change the focus to what would have been good, wouldn't suggest it in the super thread or a team one
my point was more you have it backwards. the same guys aren't getting games that stifle development of a young gun, the same inadequate guys are getting a run because there is no one better coming through demanding selection. It's the same in a number of positions, most notably 10, where there is precisely one international standard 10 in the country.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
@mariner4life i agree 100%, just in the AB's thread i kind of change the focus to what would have been good, wouldn't suggest it in the super thread or a team one
my point was more you have it backwards. the same guys aren't getting games that stifle development of a young gun, the same inadequate guys are getting a run because there is no one better coming through demanding selection. It's the same in a number of positions, most notably 10, where there is precisely one international standard 10 in the country.
Fair point. There have been a number of good prospects coming into SR at 10 but they seem to stagnate or end up switched to another position, Josh Ioane being a good example.
You wonder if there's a bit more dialogue needed between the AB management and the SR franchises on player development.
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I'm warming to Christie, he's finally improving and I thought last weekend was probably the best I've seen him play. Would be interesting to see what he could learn off Smith in camp.
Ennor, not so much. Roane, PUJ, Faingaanuku should all be ahead of him.
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@african-monkey LOL. God damn that would almost be worth it for the thread.
@tim said in All Blacks 2021:
@african-monkey LOL. God damn that would almost be worth it for the thread.
Total meltdown!
