All Blacks 2021
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TJP is a bit feisty, isn't he? Hopefully, that transfers onto the field. Not sure he deserves his place based on his 2020 form but he had some work-ons from the coaches to do in Japan, didn't he? He is a really good player so hopefully he can get his halfback skills up and running.
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TJP is a bit feisty, isn't he? Hopefully, that transfers onto the field. Not sure he deserves his place based on his 2020 form but he had some work-ons from the coaches to do in Japan, didn't he? He is a really good player so hopefully he can get his halfback skills up and running.
@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks 2021:
TJP is a bit feisty, isn't he?
He's a half back - being a feisty gobby shite is part of the job descrption!
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ABs have the odd psychological motivation of half the country thinking they can't be that good because Foster is coaching them.
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It’s really hard to gauge where we are at against the opposition we have faced over the last 2 weeks. But I guess most countries are in a very similar position in that regard.
The forwards have been the biggest issue for 3-4 years now and we seem to be in gradual decline there still, even though we have publicly acknowledged this is the area that we are focussing on to turn around and bring physicality back to our pack.
I haven’t seen any real evidence of this and I do wonder what would happen if we meet South Africa on a day when their pack is on fire.
It has got me wondering about the direction of All Black rugby and New Zealand rugby overall. Specifically, how does New Zealand rugby strategise for the development of the professional game, the style of play and also the type of player we are producing for international rugby?
I always assumed this direction was done through the All Blacks mgmt and coaching but it seems like we are out of synch with the way the rugby world is going in a number of areas.
Firstly, the forwards we produce for the All Blacks for a long time now are much leaner than their counterparts in the NH and SA. We all know we don’t produce the same amount of big men as these sides traditionally but we seem to be continuing down the leaner, mobile type of players even though rugby has changed - it’s slower, with more stoppages and it becomes harder to fatigue teams as we once used to be able to do.
This approach was found out against a fired up England in the RWC semi final. It was an embarrassing loss. One glaring area was the work of England’s tight 5 compared to ours. Set piece as well as in the loose.
Secondly, we have never solved the rush defence problem that first presented itself against The Lions. Other teams have managed to score tries against those defences but it is still our kryptonite. The dual playmaker was a desperate attempt by Hansen in my view as he realised he couldn’t win the World Cup after the Irish loss in 2018. Ironically our best performance came in the qtr final against Ireland. But, by then, it was evident that getting up for 3 big games in a row were beyond that All Black group.
Thirdly, defence. Why have we not employed the same type of rush defence that we have so much trouble with? I get it is perfect against NZ and other teams don’t try to play like we do but surely if we find it so difficult why are we persisting with other defensive structures that do not provide the necessary solidity or turnover options. We might understand how to attack it better if we used the rush defences our opponents use against us.
I actually can’t recall the last piece of innovation that Come out of NZ rugby that had the rest of the world trying to catch up. Interesting how no one has adopted the dual playmaker from RWC2019.
Then I wondered whether it’s because of our set up? Hansen’s last gig as a head coach was 2003 before taking the reins in 2012. Foster’s last gig as a head coach was 2010.
Is being an asst coaches for so long in an All Blacks environment really the best preparation for leading the All Blacks? A side always under pressure to be the best side in the world?
It seems very insular in its thinking to me that we have coaches wrapped up in a largely All Black winning bubble, for a long period of time, and then expect them to keep ahead of the rest of the world. Hansen ran out of ideas (and motivation?) after the Lions series and the loss of some all time great All Blacks after 2015. To expect Foster to be the man to bring the All Blacks back to the summit of world rugby is probably asking far too much of him.
What’s the answer? Is it time to ditch the continuity? Do we need a coach with more recent head coach experience, do we need to change the way we condition players, particularly forwards? Do the All Blacks/NZ rugby need to learn more from NH rugby to improve/change our approach? Have we fallen behind other countries/clubs in innovation?
The answer to all of these questions seem to be a resounding ‘yes’
@dagrubster Spot on. Great analysis. Best post I've read on the Fern in a wee while. Thank you!
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To me ABs look better placed going into round 1 TRC this year than last year.
If you look at the likely AB starting XV for Bledisloe 1 it looks stronger than the same team for Bledisloe 1 last year with the exception of loosehead prop. Compare the outside back 3, midfield, loosies, locks.
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks 2021:
To me ABs look better placed going into round 1 TRC this year than last year.
If you look at the likely AB starting XV for Bledisloe 1 it looks stronger than the same team for Bledisloe 1 last year with the exception of loosehead prop. Compare the outside back 3, midfield, loosies, locks.
Don't disagree, but the first 25-30 minutes of Fiji 2 show the weaknesses of this side. Our skills execution is patchy, and our lineout was terrible. I hope we show up and smash them, but if we don't go well, I suspect we'll see the same again from this side
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwimurph Jesus what a shit show. I guess Fozzie thought what's good for the goose and decided to air his opinion publicly too. But probably a pretty poor option when you've just selected that guy in your team. Fucken hell.
Was a terrible decision by Foster. No winners are ever going to come out of that. Best you get is throwing a senior all black under the bus.
Molehill, meet mountain
@booboo said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwimurph Jesus what a shit show. I guess Fozzie thought what's good for the goose and decided to air his opinion publicly too. But probably a pretty poor option when you've just selected that guy in your team. Fucken hell.
Was a terrible decision by Foster. No winners are ever going to come out of that. Best you get is throwing a senior all black under the bus.
Molehill, meet mountain
It is an unusual u-turn for Foster and his "coaching" team, normally they prefer to select man-mountains and turn them into molehills.
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwimurph Jesus what a shit show. I guess Fozzie thought what's good for the goose and decided to air his opinion publicly too. But probably a pretty poor option when you've just selected that guy in your team. Fucken hell.
Was a terrible decision by Foster. No winners are ever going to come out of that. Best you get is throwing a senior all black under the bus.
Molehill, meet mountain
It is an unusual u-turn for Foster and his "coaching" team, normally they prefer to select man-mountains and turn them into molehills.
On a more serious note, the 'let them bash us up and then we will fix it for the second game' mentality has been happening since we've been playing Deans (anybody remember him?) so I think it was even pre-Foster. But I can't tell you how the coaching has greatly changed not just since Foster took over but also when he joined, (well perhaps some position / selection decisions are more farcical) so I'd also question whether continuity has actually been good for the ABs.
But yeah, I wonder where all the strategy/ideas are, we seem to have some for key games then let the other team bash us up every second or third game...Rope-a-dope? Wrong sport to try it in the knockout part of a RWC...As a point of difference though perhaps the forwards are as good as they can be and our real bone of contention should be the increasingly hit and miss backline? Because there we really should have enough talent. For knockout RWC games, apart from not picking Cane to start, and playing a non-specialist 6 against England in 2019 (and check out all the still-familiar names https://www.allblacks.com/news/all-blacks-team-named-for-semifinal-against-england/), was there much the coaches could do? Were there other forwards who could have/should have saved the day? From memory Jacobson was picked to be at 6 (but injured) not 8 so we didn't really have an alternative for Read, A Ioane was out of favour, in the backs R Ioane was out of favour (I think)...we perhaps don't really have depth in the forwards regardless of coaching...
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On a more serious note, the 'let them bash us up and then we will fix it for the second game' mentality has been happening since we've been playing Deans (anybody remember him?) so I think it was even pre-Foster. But I can't tell you how the coaching has greatly changed not just since Foster took over but also when he joined, (well perhaps some position / selection decisions are more farcical) so I'd also question whether continuity has actually been good for the ABs.
But yeah, I wonder where all the strategy/ideas are, we seem to have some for key games then let the other team bash us up every second or third game...Rope-a-dope? Wrong sport to try it in the knockout part of a RWC...As a point of difference though perhaps the forwards are as good as they can be and our real bone of contention should be the increasingly hit and miss backline? Because there we really should have enough talent. For knockout RWC games, apart from not picking Cane to start, and playing a non-specialist 6 against England in 2019 (and check out all the still-familiar names https://www.allblacks.com/news/all-blacks-team-named-for-semifinal-against-england/), was there much the coaches could do? Were there other forwards who could have/should have saved the day? From memory Jacobson was picked to be at 6 (but injured) not 8 so we didn't really have an alternative for Read, A Ioane was out of favour, in the backs R Ioane was out of favour (I think)...we perhaps don't really have depth in the forwards regardless of coaching...
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
was there much the coaches could do? Were there other forwards who could have/should have saved the day?
Losing Luatua overseas a couple of years earlier by selecting Elliot Dixon and Jordan Taufua over him comes to mind...
In the 6 jersey post RWC 2015 behind Kaino they basically put all their eggs in the Squire basket and then couldn't land on an alternative option - they selected a whole bunch of people but for a variety of reasons (sometimes injury) these players never ended up decent game time (Evans, Akira, Taufua, Dixon, Jacobson, Frizell, L Whitelock etc etc).
Basically the same story with Read and the 8 jersey (though more understandable as he was captain).
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
was there much the coaches could do? Were there other forwards who could have/should have saved the day?
Losing Luatua overseas a couple of years earlier by selecting Elliot Dixon and Jordan Taufua over him comes to mind...
In the 6 jersey post RWC 2015 behind Kaino they basically put all their eggs in the Squire basket and then couldn't land on an alternative option - they selected a whole bunch of people but for a variety of reasons (sometimes injury) these players never ended up decent game time (Evans, Akira, Taufua, Dixon, Jacobson, Frizell, L Whitelock etc etc).
Basically the same story with Read and the 8 jersey (though more understandable as he was captain).
@kiwimurph thanks for that, a name I forgot. I liked Luatua (and Vito, but perhaps he was going to leave anyway), and I think they have done ok overseas but not sure they would have made a huge difference. We are light in depth in props (who can scrum and make metres) and locking depth (here is hoping Retallick gets back up to speed, Whitelock can't do everything on his own and the miles on the clock would slow down a lesser mortal)..
Edit: and yes I never quite saw a longterm option in Squire, he was also a bit of a penalty magnet as I recall..
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As far as props go one guy I would like them to try is alex fidow. Dont play him but bring him into the squad to learn of some of the best. He offers something no others do. If they/ someone can teach him how to scrum he could become a weapon.
Having Franks next year hopefully will help tho...
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As far as props go one guy I would like them to try is alex fidow. Dont play him but bring him into the squad to learn of some of the best. He offers something no others do. If they/ someone can teach him how to scrum he could become a weapon.
Having Franks next year hopefully will help tho...
@mackerzzzz surely the likes of Norris, de Groot, Williams coming through are more worth putting work into?
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As far as props go one guy I would like them to try is alex fidow. Dont play him but bring him into the squad to learn of some of the best. He offers something no others do. If they/ someone can teach him how to scrum he could become a weapon.
Having Franks next year hopefully will help tho...
@mackerzzzz said in All Blacks 2021:
As far as props go one guy I would like them to try is alex fidow. Dont play him but bring him into the squad to learn of some of the best. He offers something no others do. If they/ someone can teach him how to scrum he could become a weapon.
Having Franks next year hopefully will help tho...
He would certainly need to learn how to scrum hes pretty shit at that.
I think you will find the 20 year old Crusaders props Williams and Newell have been targeted as future ABs a few years back.
They might come into contention in 2023. -
@kiwimurph thanks for that, a name I forgot. I liked Luatua (and Vito, but perhaps he was going to leave anyway), and I think they have done ok overseas but not sure they would have made a huge difference. We are light in depth in props (who can scrum and make metres) and locking depth (here is hoping Retallick gets back up to speed, Whitelock can't do everything on his own and the miles on the clock would slow down a lesser mortal)..
Edit: and yes I never quite saw a longterm option in Squire, he was also a bit of a penalty magnet as I recall..
@nostrildamus Squire wasn't physical enough for an AB starting 6. He had a real super rugby style of play where he was like an early version of Luatua with how wide and loose he played. He was great when we were going well and loved getting his hands on the ball when we were on the front foot in games, but couldn't play tight enough when required and would go missing in bigger tests when the going got tough.
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@crucial exactly, I don't care who the player is, an All Black jersey to me needs to be earned whether you've played 1 test or 100. He's been away from NZ and to me he needs to show good form before he's selected again. I said the same thing with Beaudy and Brodie but unfortunately we just don't have enough world-class players in those areas to ease them back in.
@Kirwan for sure but I think he can get back to his best if he doesn't clutter his game. Will see what happens I guess.
@canes4life said in All Blacks 2021:
I said the same thing with Beaudy and Brodie but unfortunately we just don't have enough world-class players in those areas to ease them back in.
I wonder if Foster & co are so worried about the gap between Nugget and the rest ( I sure am) they thought including TJP was the best option.
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@canes4life said in All Blacks 2021:
I said the same thing with Beaudy and Brodie but unfortunately we just don't have enough world-class players in those areas to ease them back in.
I wonder if Foster & co are so worried about the gap between Nugget and the rest ( I sure am) they thought including TJP was the best option.
@victor-meldrew maybe so, TJ wasn't in the best form last year but he's better than Weber and Christie in my view even when he's not at his best. Aaron Smith is by far in a way our top option there so let's hope he remains relatively injury-free for most of the year.
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@nostrildamus Squire wasn't physical enough for an AB starting 6. He had a real super rugby style of play where he was like an early version of Luatua with how wide and loose he played. He was great when we were going well and loved getting his hands on the ball when we were on the front foot in games, but couldn't play tight enough when required and would go missing in bigger tests when the going got tough.
@african-monkey said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus Squire wasn't physical enough for an AB starting 6. He had a real super rugby style of play where he was like an early version of Luatua with how wide and loose he played. He was great when we were going well and loved getting his hands on the ball when we were on the front foot in games, but couldn't play tight enough when required and would go missing in bigger tests when the going got tough.
Yes and he was also carrying an injury and may have felt some social pressure but regardless I always had a hunch (says I with hindsight) his AB career would not be a long one. Definitely looked like a bruiser though.
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@victor-meldrew maybe so, TJ wasn't in the best form last year but he's better than Weber and Christie in my view even when he's not at his best. Aaron Smith is by far in a way our top option there so let's hope he remains relatively injury-free for most of the year.
@canes4life said in All Blacks 2021:
@victor-meldrew maybe so, TJ wasn't in the best form last year but he's better than Weber and Christie in my view even when he's not at his best. Aaron Smith is by far in a way our top option there so let's hope he remains relatively injury-free for most of the year.
Speaking of halfbacks, has Tawera Kerr-Barlow retired or still playing in France? I think he is only about 30..
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@canes4life said in All Blacks 2021:
@victor-meldrew maybe so, TJ wasn't in the best form last year but he's better than Weber and Christie in my view even when he's not at his best. Aaron Smith is by far in a way our top option there so let's hope he remains relatively injury-free for most of the year.
Speaking of halfbacks, has Tawera Kerr-Barlow retired or still playing in France? I think he is only about 30..
@nostrildamus TKB is still contracted to La Rochelle.
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When the 3rd halfback is fucking Weber who is barely Super standard then it's hardly surprising they immediately throw TJP back in given his experience.
I'd have given the 3rd place to Christie, at least he's young and has the potential to improve. Weber is a waste of space.
