AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass
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Ken Gray was an absolute beast. I saw him play once but many times on TV. Unlike Meads he would still be competitive today. I would have him ahead of Olo at TH. I actually think Woody is more contentious.
I also think the panel of 'experts' bottled it putting Jones at 6. Kirkpatrick is your six. Make a call and decide which of McCaw and Jones misses out - don't try and have it both ways.
Kirkpatrick, Jones, Brooke/Read
@dogmeat said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
Ken Gray was an absolute beast. I saw him play once but many times on TV. Unlike Meads he would still be competitive today.
Meads wouldn't be a 2nd rower these days - probbly a 6 or 8 - but having seen him in action, would be bloody competitive. Almost as skilled as Zinny as well
I also think the panel of 'experts' bottled it putting Jones at 6. Kirkpatrick is your six. Make a call and decide which of McCaw and Jones misses out - don't try and have it both ways.
I agree. Kirky was probably better than MJ at 6 and McCaw shaded him at 7, but you really can't leave MJ out. I'd put the 3 of them in the team and rotate MJ...
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@act-crusader I wondered who would call me on the hypocrisy.
My own bias wants me to pick BJ Lochore but I admit he doesn't deserve to be there. I never thought that I would see a more gifted 8 than Zinnie but at times I think Read outshone him, plus he was a genuine lineout option so there you go. Zinny's golden years probably lasted a bit longer but if I had to pick I'd start with Read and put Zinny on the bench.
Kirkpatrick, Jones, Read.
@dogmeat said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@act-crusader I wondered who would call me on the hypocrisy.
My own bias wants me to pick BJ Lochore but I admit he doesn't deserve to be there. I never thought that I would see a more gifted 8 than Zinnie but at times I think Read outshone him, plus he was a genuine lineout option so there you go. Zinny's golden years probably lasted a bit longer but if I had to pick I'd start with Read and put Zinny on the bench.
Kirkpatrick, Jones, Read.
Zinny for me. If only because he won a proper Test series in Sth Africa.
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@dogmeat said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@act-crusader I wondered who would call me on the hypocrisy.
My own bias wants me to pick BJ Lochore but I admit he doesn't deserve to be there. I never thought that I would see a more gifted 8 than Zinnie but at times I think Read outshone him, plus he was a genuine lineout option so there you go. Zinny's golden years probably lasted a bit longer but if I had to pick I'd start with Read and put Zinny on the bench.
Kirkpatrick, Jones, Read.
Zinny for me. If only because he won a proper Test series in Sth Africa.
@victor-meldrew If you want a Number 8 who can offload, dummy like a French three-quarter and drop kick, then Zinny's your man.
Buck Shelford at his best was better of doing the key jobs of a Number 8, smashing through the advantage line with three guys hanging off, running, tackling, rucking, jumping in the line out. A brilliant enforcer and leader too. Tough as they come. Outstanding for the ABs in the inaugural World Cup. My choice at Number 8 for the Greatest AB XV.
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@bovidae said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
He played both but more as a TH. Anyone who saw him play rates Gray as one of the best ever AB props, so not surprised at his selection.
Before even my time, but from what I've read, he was also pretty unbeatable at the front of the lineouts that existed in those days
@victor-meldrew said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@bovidae said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
He played both but more as a TH. Anyone who saw him play rates Gray as one of the best ever AB props, so not surprised at his selection.
Before even my time, but from what I've read, he was also pretty unbeatable at the front of the lineouts that existed in those days
And in the photos he looked great sitting on a horse like meads did holding a sheep, classic old school forwards
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@victor-meldrew If you want a Number 8 who can offload, dummy like a French three-quarter and drop kick, then Zinny's your man.
Buck Shelford at his best was better of doing the key jobs of a Number 8, smashing through the advantage line with three guys hanging off, running, tackling, rucking, jumping in the line out. A brilliant enforcer and leader too. Tough as they come. Outstanding for the ABs in the inaugural World Cup. My choice at Number 8 for the Greatest AB XV.
@sparky said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@victor-meldrew If you want a Number 8 who can offload, dummy like a French three-quarter and drop kick, then Zinny's your man.
Buck Shelford at his best was better of doing the key jobs of a Number 8, smashing through the advantage line with three guys hanging off, running, tackling, rucking, jumping in the line out. A brilliant enforcer and leader too. Tough as they come. Outstanding for the ABs in the inaugural World Cup. My choice at Number 8 for the Greatest AB XV.
Hard to disagree, but I thought Zinny was equally tough in the '96 Boks series. Probably the best we saw from him.
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@bovidae said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
He played both but more as a TH. Anyone who saw him play rates Gray as one of the best ever AB props, so not surprised at his selection.
Before even my time, but from what I've read, he was also pretty unbeatable at the front of the lineouts that existed in those days
@victor-meldrew said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@bovidae said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
He played both but more as a TH. Anyone who saw him play rates Gray as one of the best ever AB props, so not surprised at his selection.
Before even my time, but from what I've read, he was also pretty unbeatable at the front of the lineouts that existed in those days
Anyone of my father's generation who saw Gray play live raves about him.
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@victor-meldrew said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@bovidae said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
He played both but more as a TH. Anyone who saw him play rates Gray as one of the best ever AB props, so not surprised at his selection.
Before even my time, but from what I've read, he was also pretty unbeatable at the front of the lineouts that existed in those days
Anyone of my father's generation who saw Gray play live raves about him.
@bovidae said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@victor-meldrew said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@bovidae said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
He played both but more as a TH. Anyone who saw him play rates Gray as one of the best ever AB props, so not surprised at his selection.
Before even my time, but from what I've read, he was also pretty unbeatable at the front of the lineouts that existed in those days
Anyone of my father's generation who saw Gray play live raves about him.
Yeah, that 63-70 era had a fair proportion of the all time greats. Weren't just lumbering forwards either, they were really skilful with the ball. Drop-kicks from 40m, off-loads SBW would drool over.
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so Laban thinks Fox is better than Carter
At some point Nisbett is going to name the wrong Polynesian
this is going reeeaaaal well
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was Gray the one Meads said he hit as hard as he could in AB trial, and Gray just stood there and asked if that was the best he had, and Meads, knowing it was, replied saying it was just a warning, and spent the rest of the game avoiding him.
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was Gray the one Meads said he hit as hard as he could in AB trial, and Gray just stood there and asked if that was the best he had, and Meads, knowing it was, replied saying it was just a warning, and spent the rest of the game avoiding him.
@taniwharugby said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
was Gray the one Meads said he hit as hard as he could in AB trial, and Gray just stood there and asked if that was the best he had, and Meads, knowing it was, replied saying it was just a warning, and spent the rest of the game avoiding him.
Keith Murdoch.
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@taniwharugby said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
was Gray the one Meads said he hit as hard as he could in AB trial, and Gray just stood there and asked if that was the best he had, and Meads, knowing it was, replied saying it was just a warning, and spent the rest of the game avoiding him.
Keith Murdoch.
@nepia yeah he was the other one I was thinking of
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@dogmeat said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@act-crusader I wondered who would call me on the hypocrisy.
My own bias wants me to pick BJ Lochore but I admit he doesn't deserve to be there. I never thought that I would see a more gifted 8 than Zinnie but at times I think Read outshone him, plus he was a genuine lineout option so there you go. Zinny's golden years probably lasted a bit longer but if I had to pick I'd start with Read and put Zinny on the bench.
Kirkpatrick, Jones, Read.
I’m in the Jones, McCaw, Zinny camp with Read off the bench.
@act-crusader said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@dogmeat said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@act-crusader I wondered who would call me on the hypocrisy.
My own bias wants me to pick BJ Lochore but I admit he doesn't deserve to be there. I never thought that I would see a more gifted 8 than Zinnie but at times I think Read outshone him, plus he was a genuine lineout option so there you go. Zinny's golden years probably lasted a bit longer but if I had to pick I'd start with Read and put Zinny on the bench.
Kirkpatrick, Jones, Read.
I’m in the Jones, McCaw, Zinny camp with Read off the bench.
Jones comes off the bench, with Kaino, McCaw and Zinny starting in my team. I'm only selecting players I've seen play, so Kirkpatrick isn't in the equation for me. Read was great for about one or two years, but he wasn't the athlete that Brooke was.
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@act-crusader said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@dogmeat said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@act-crusader I wondered who would call me on the hypocrisy.
My own bias wants me to pick BJ Lochore but I admit he doesn't deserve to be there. I never thought that I would see a more gifted 8 than Zinnie but at times I think Read outshone him, plus he was a genuine lineout option so there you go. Zinny's golden years probably lasted a bit longer but if I had to pick I'd start with Read and put Zinny on the bench.
Kirkpatrick, Jones, Read.
I’m in the Jones, McCaw, Zinny camp with Read off the bench.
Jones comes off the bench, with Kaino, McCaw and Zinny starting in my team. I'm only selecting players I've seen play, so Kirkpatrick isn't in the equation for me. Read was great for about one or two years, but he wasn't the athlete that Brooke was.
@gt12 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@act-crusader said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@dogmeat said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@act-crusader I wondered who would call me on the hypocrisy.
My own bias wants me to pick BJ Lochore but I admit he doesn't deserve to be there. I never thought that I would see a more gifted 8 than Zinnie but at times I think Read outshone him, plus he was a genuine lineout option so there you go. Zinny's golden years probably lasted a bit longer but if I had to pick I'd start with Read and put Zinny on the bench.
Kirkpatrick, Jones, Read.
I’m in the Jones, McCaw, Zinny camp with Read off the bench.
Jones comes off the bench, with Kaino, McCaw and Zinny starting in my team. I'm only selecting players I've seen play, so Kirkpatrick isn't in the equation for me. Read was great for about one or two years, but he wasn't the athlete that Brooke was.
i am 100% with this guy
unless i am allowed to put Sir Wayne of Ormond on the blind...
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@gt12 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@act-crusader said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@dogmeat said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@act-crusader I wondered who would call me on the hypocrisy.
My own bias wants me to pick BJ Lochore but I admit he doesn't deserve to be there. I never thought that I would see a more gifted 8 than Zinnie but at times I think Read outshone him, plus he was a genuine lineout option so there you go. Zinny's golden years probably lasted a bit longer but if I had to pick I'd start with Read and put Zinny on the bench.
Kirkpatrick, Jones, Read.
I’m in the Jones, McCaw, Zinny camp with Read off the bench.
Jones comes off the bench, with Kaino, McCaw and Zinny starting in my team. I'm only selecting players I've seen play, so Kirkpatrick isn't in the equation for me. Read was great for about one or two years, but he wasn't the athlete that Brooke was.
i am 100% with this guy
unless i am allowed to put Sir Wayne of Ormond on the blind...
@mariner4life said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@gt12 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@act-crusader said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@dogmeat said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@act-crusader I wondered who would call me on the hypocrisy.
My own bias wants me to pick BJ Lochore but I admit he doesn't deserve to be there. I never thought that I would see a more gifted 8 than Zinnie but at times I think Read outshone him, plus he was a genuine lineout option so there you go. Zinny's golden years probably lasted a bit longer but if I had to pick I'd start with Read and put Zinny on the bench.
Kirkpatrick, Jones, Read.
I’m in the Jones, McCaw, Zinny camp with Read off the bench.
Jones comes off the bench, with Kaino, McCaw and Zinny starting in my team. I'm only selecting players I've seen play, so Kirkpatrick isn't in the equation for me. Read was great for about one or two years, but he wasn't the athlete that Brooke was.
i am 100% with this guy
unless i am allowed to put Sir Wayne of Ormond on the blind...
When the game is played on a Sunday he could come off the bench?
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@act-crusader said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@dogmeat said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@act-crusader I wondered who would call me on the hypocrisy.
My own bias wants me to pick BJ Lochore but I admit he doesn't deserve to be there. I never thought that I would see a more gifted 8 than Zinnie but at times I think Read outshone him, plus he was a genuine lineout option so there you go. Zinny's golden years probably lasted a bit longer but if I had to pick I'd start with Read and put Zinny on the bench.
Kirkpatrick, Jones, Read.
I’m in the Jones, McCaw, Zinny camp with Read off the bench.
Jones comes off the bench, with Kaino, McCaw and Zinny starting in my team. I'm only selecting players I've seen play, so Kirkpatrick isn't in the equation for me. Read was great for about one or two years, but he wasn't the athlete that Brooke was.
@gt12 said in [AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass]
Jones comes off the bench, with Kaino, McCaw and Zinny starting in my team. I'm only selecting players I've seen play, so Kirkpatrick isn't in the equation for me. Read was great for about one or two years, but he wasn't the athlete that Brooke was.
So was Kaino though by the same standard, no?
Am I alone in understanding Kaino and Read getting mentions, but don't think peak Kaino/McCaw/Read was that much better than peak Collins/McCaw/Rodders?
When was peak Read anyway? 2009 EOYT until the inury before the RWC or sometime during the 2012-2015 cycle?
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@gt12 said in [AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass]
Jones comes off the bench, with Kaino, McCaw and Zinny starting in my team. I'm only selecting players I've seen play, so Kirkpatrick isn't in the equation for me. Read was great for about one or two years, but he wasn't the athlete that Brooke was.
So was Kaino though by the same standard, no?
Am I alone in understanding Kaino and Read getting mentions, but don't think peak Kaino/McCaw/Read was that much better than peak Collins/McCaw/Rodders?
When was peak Read anyway? 2009 EOYT until the inury before the RWC or sometime during the 2012-2015 cycle?
@rotated said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@gt12 said in [AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass]
Jones comes off the bench, with Kaino, McCaw and Zinny starting in my team. I'm only selecting players I've seen play, so Kirkpatrick isn't in the equation for me. Read was great for about one or two years, but he wasn't the athlete that Brooke was.
So was Kaino though by the same standard, no?
Am I alone in understanding Kaino and Read getting mentions, but don't think peak Kaino/McCaw/Read was that much better than peak Collins/McCaw/Rodders?
When was peak Read anyway? 2009 EOYT until the inury before the RWC or sometime during the 2012-2015 cycle?
I think the main area we improved with Kaino and read over Collins Rodders was the lineout ,
Otherwise Collins Rodders may be pretty underrated in these discussions, they were pretty dominant overall , maybe not winning in 07 didn’t help their legacy . Not sure .
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@gt12 said in [AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass]
Jones comes off the bench, with Kaino, McCaw and Zinny starting in my team. I'm only selecting players I've seen play, so Kirkpatrick isn't in the equation for me. Read was great for about one or two years, but he wasn't the athlete that Brooke was.
So was Kaino though by the same standard, no?
Am I alone in understanding Kaino and Read getting mentions, but don't think peak Kaino/McCaw/Read was that much better than peak Collins/McCaw/Rodders?
When was peak Read anyway? 2009 EOYT until the inury before the RWC or sometime during the 2012-2015 cycle?
@rotated said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@gt12 said in [AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass]
Jones comes off the bench, with Kaino, McCaw and Zinny starting in my team. I'm only selecting players I've seen play, so Kirkpatrick isn't in the equation for me. Read was great for about one or two years, but he wasn't the athlete that Brooke was.
So was Kaino though by the same standard, no?
Am I alone in understanding Kaino and Read getting mentions, but don't think peak Kaino/McCaw/Read was that much better than peak Collins/McCaw/Rodders?
When was peak Read anyway? 2009 EOYT until the inury before the RWC or sometime during the 2012-2015 cycle?
There’s a fairly decent gap for me. At any given time one of Read, McCaw and Kaino was the best loosie in the world and the other two were not far behind. Collins and Rodders were bloody good and top ABs but they didn’t reach the peaks that Read and Kaino did.
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If you are picking the greatest AB side of all time then [sacrilege] you don't need McCaw [/sacrilege]
He wasn't as gifted a player as MJ but he had an engine that kept on going and never gave up. Two attributes which together with his anticipation made him much better than the sum of his parts.
Surrounded by the best ever those attributes aren't required to the same extent
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If you are picking the greatest AB side of all time then [sacrilege] you don't need McCaw [/sacrilege]
He wasn't as gifted a player as MJ but he had an engine that kept on going and never gave up. Two attributes which together with his anticipation made him much better than the sum of his parts.
Surrounded by the best ever those attributes aren't required to the same extent
@dogmeat said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
If you are picking the greatest AB side of all time then [sacrilege] you don't need McCaw [/sacrilege]
He wasn't as gifted a player as MJ but he had an engine that kept on going and never gave up. Two attributes which together with his anticipation made him much better than the sum of his parts.
Surrounded by the best ever those attributes aren't required to the same extent
someone ban this old fluffybunny, he's clearly fallen in to dementia, and he's going to end up sounding like that guy from the GC
And then shoot him, because that's humane
derpy derpy lets leave out the greatest rugby player of all time
We don't need Cullen at fullback, Lomu and Wilson and Carter and Nonu will score so many tries, lets just go with Ben Blair
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@dogmeat said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
If you are picking the greatest AB side of all time then [sacrilege] you don't need McCaw [/sacrilege]
He wasn't as gifted a player as MJ but he had an engine that kept on going and never gave up. Two attributes which together with his anticipation made him much better than the sum of his parts.
Surrounded by the best ever those attributes aren't required to the same extent
someone ban this old fluffybunny, he's clearly fallen in to dementia, and he's going to end up sounding like that guy from the GC
And then shoot him, because that's humane
derpy derpy lets leave out the greatest rugby player of all time
We don't need Cullen at fullback, Lomu and Wilson and Carter and Nonu will score so many tries, lets just go with Ben Blair
@mariner4life yeah nah. Jones was a more gifted 7 IMO.
Wilson? Who is the demented one?? None of the various Wilsons would get near a best ever XV
