All Blacks 2021
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Despite all the negative comments on Mitchell, I still think he could be useful to the All Blacks as a defense coach.
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Never heard of Roger T until recently.
Looks like a more muscled and quicker version of NMS??@frank said in All Blacks 2021:
Never heard of Roger T until recently.
Looks like a more muscled and quicker version of NMS??A quicker version of NMS hasn't sounded that impressive for a few years. Damn injuries, poor bugger.
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2021:
@cgrant He recently left the England team and is coaching with Wasps.
He must have thicker skin than I gave him credit for.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@machpants said in All Blacks 2021:
2021 thread
superb example of social distancing.
And derailing, like this thread
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky wasn't Ben Blair the backup (and very accurate) kicker? Not something I recall Cullen being famous for?
Carlos Spencer and Leon Macdonald were the main goal kickers in the 2003 squad. A backup, young Second Five in that squad called Dan Carter turned out to be useful with the boot. Not really convinced by the need for a fourth goal kicker...
Cullen got left out because Mitchell and Deans thought he was an arrogant fluffybunny and wouldn't play a big part in the competition after his injuries.
Post -2003 Cullen reinvented himself as a defensive Fullback for Munster for a few seasons but had a lot of time out with a dodgy shoulder.
Yeah, Cullen being left our had nothing to do with rugby, Mitchell selected two midfielders (Mils, Atiga) and two players from the same team (Rangi and Blair) over Cullen.
Cullen was one of the best performing 15s of the 2003 Super 12, even if he wasn't at his peak level, Rangi is a fair enough selection over him but they were lucky Mils turned into a class 15 that year.
Also handy to remember Mitchell didn't rate Jeff Wilson as well.
Mitch liked players that reminded him of himself. Journeymen
what, were you 3 in 2003?
Mcdonald, Atiga, and Ben Blair are not 3 names I think of when I consider who the best FBs ever were. Cullen still had something in the tank, had a great Super season if my memory serves, and IMHO he should have gone before either of the last 2 guys on that list
Mils, Dougie, Joe, Carlos, Ma'a Nonu. Pretty sure Mitch gave them all a start, most of them in 2003
Carlos Spencer (AB 951) was first picked for the ABs by Laurie Mains for the tour of Italy and France at the end of the 1995.
Doug Howlett (AB 992) was first capped by Wayne Smith in 2000.
Mils, Joe Rok, Ma'a Nonu, Richie McCaw, Dan Carter, Andrew Hore, Kevin Mealamu and Ali Williams were all first picked Cueball. But so were Paul Steinmetz, Ben Atiga and Keith Lowen. As a Selector, Mitchell was hit and miss.
@sparky said in All Blacks 2021:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky wasn't Ben Blair the backup (and very accurate) kicker? Not something I recall Cullen being famous for?
Carlos Spencer and Leon Macdonald were the main goal kickers in the 2003 squad. A backup, young Second Five in that squad called Dan Carter turned out to be useful with the boot. Not really convinced by the need for a fourth goal kicker...
Cullen got left out because Mitchell and Deans thought he was an arrogant fluffybunny and wouldn't play a big part in the competition after his injuries.
Post -2003 Cullen reinvented himself as a defensive Fullback for Munster for a few seasons but had a lot of time out with a dodgy shoulder.
Yeah, Cullen being left our had nothing to do with rugby, Mitchell selected two midfielders (Mils, Atiga) and two players from the same team (Rangi and Blair) over Cullen.
Cullen was one of the best performing 15s of the 2003 Super 12, even if he wasn't at his peak level, Rangi is a fair enough selection over him but they were lucky Mils turned into a class 15 that year.
Also handy to remember Mitchell didn't rate Jeff Wilson as well.
Mitch liked players that reminded him of himself. Journeymen
what, were you 3 in 2003?
Mcdonald, Atiga, and Ben Blair are not 3 names I think of when I consider who the best FBs ever were. Cullen still had something in the tank, had a great Super season if my memory serves, and IMHO he should have gone before either of the last 2 guys on that list
Mils, Dougie, Joe, Carlos, Ma'a Nonu. Pretty sure Mitch gave them all a start, most of them in 2003
Carlos Spencer (AB 951) was first picked for the ABs by Laurie Mains for the tour of Italy and France at the end of the 1995.
Doug Howlett (AB 992) was first capped by Wayne Smith in 2000.
Mils, Joe Rok, Ma'a Nonu, Richie McCaw, Dan Carter, Andrew Hore, Kevin Mealamu and Ali Williams were all first picked Cueball. But so were Paul Steinmetz, Ben Atiga and Keith Lowen. As a Selector, Mitchell was hit and miss.
34 players made their debut during the Mitchell era. Mitchell’s first game, just a few weeks after he was appointed was a mid-week tour match against Ireland A, so he debuted a few newbies in that one.
Ben Blair, Dave Hewett, David Hill, Simon Maling, Nathan Mauger, Paul Miller, Roger Randle, Dion Waller, Tom Willis, Aaron Mauger, Richie McCaw, Joe McDonnell, Sam Harding, Sam Broomhall, Steve Devine, Andrea Hore, Keith Lowen, Keith Robinson, Ali Williams, Danny Lee, Brad Mika, Tony Woodcock, Keven Mealamu, Daniel Braid, Rodney So’oialo, Regan King, Paul Steinmetz, Ma’a Nonu, Joe Rokocoko, Mils Muliaina, Dan Carter, Brad Thorn, Corey Flynn, Ben Atiga
Bold are those that went on to play 50+ tests.
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@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky wasn't Ben Blair the backup (and very accurate) kicker? Not something I recall Cullen being famous for?
Carlos Spencer and Leon Macdonald were the main goal kickers in the 2003 squad. A backup, young Second Five in that squad called Dan Carter turned out to be useful with the boot. Not really convinced by the need for a fourth goal kicker...
Cullen got left out because Mitchell and Deans thought he was an arrogant fluffybunny and wouldn't play a big part in the competition after his injuries.
Post -2003 Cullen reinvented himself as a defensive Fullback for Munster for a few seasons but had a lot of time out with a dodgy shoulder.
Yeah, Cullen being left our had nothing to do with rugby, Mitchell selected two midfielders (Mils, Atiga) and two players from the same team (Rangi and Blair) over Cullen.
Cullen was one of the best performing 15s of the 2003 Super 12, even if he wasn't at his peak level, Rangi is a fair enough selection over him but they were lucky Mils turned into a class 15 that year.
Also handy to remember Mitchell didn't rate Jeff Wilson as well.
Mitch liked players that reminded him of himself. Journeymen
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky wasn't Ben Blair the backup (and very accurate) kicker? Not something I recall Cullen being famous for?
Carlos Spencer and Leon Macdonald were the main goal kickers in the 2003 squad. A backup, young Second Five in that squad called Dan Carter turned out to be useful with the boot. Not really convinced by the need for a fourth goal kicker...
Cullen got left out because Mitchell and Deans thought he was an arrogant fluffybunny and wouldn't play a big part in the competition after his injuries.
Post -2003 Cullen reinvented himself as a defensive Fullback for Munster for a few seasons but had a lot of time out with a dodgy shoulder.
Yeah, Cullen being left our had nothing to do with rugby, Mitchell selected two midfielders (Mils, Atiga) and two players from the same team (Rangi and Blair) over Cullen.
Cullen was one of the best performing 15s of the 2003 Super 12, even if he wasn't at his peak level, Rangi is a fair enough selection over him but they were lucky Mils turned into a class 15 that year.
Also handy to remember Mitchell didn't rate Jeff Wilson as well.
Mitch liked players that reminded him of himself. Journeymen
More like a journey man. That journey to World Cup humiliation.
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky wasn't Ben Blair the backup (and very accurate) kicker? Not something I recall Cullen being famous for?
Carlos Spencer and Leon Macdonald were the main goal kickers in the 2003 squad. A backup, young Second Five in that squad called Dan Carter turned out to be useful with the boot. Not really convinced by the need for a fourth goal kicker...
Cullen got left out because Mitchell and Deans thought he was an arrogant fluffybunny and wouldn't play a big part in the competition after his injuries.
Post -2003 Cullen reinvented himself as a defensive Fullback for Munster for a few seasons but had a lot of time out with a dodgy shoulder.
Yeah, Cullen being left our had nothing to do with rugby, Mitchell selected two midfielders (Mils, Atiga) and two players from the same team (Rangi and Blair) over Cullen.
Cullen was one of the best performing 15s of the 2003 Super 12, even if he wasn't at his peak level, Rangi is a fair enough selection over him but they were lucky Mils turned into a class 15 that year.
Also handy to remember Mitchell didn't rate Jeff Wilson as well.
Mitch liked players that reminded him of himself. Journeymen
what, were you 3 in 2003?
Mcdonald, Atiga, and Ben Blair are not 3 names I think of when I consider who the best FBs ever were. Cullen still had something in the tank, had a great Super season if my memory serves, and IMHO he should have gone before either of the last 2 guys on that list
Mils, Dougie, Joe, Carlos, Ma'a Nonu. Pretty sure Mitch gave them all a start, most of them in 2003
If we were going forward pack you might have a better argument
Mitch gets far more shit for coaching and selecting thrown his way than is deserved.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky wasn't Ben Blair the backup (and very accurate) kicker? Not something I recall Cullen being famous for?
Carlos Spencer and Leon Macdonald were the main goal kickers in the 2003 squad. A backup, young Second Five in that squad called Dan Carter turned out to be useful with the boot. Not really convinced by the need for a fourth goal kicker...
Cullen got left out because Mitchell and Deans thought he was an arrogant fluffybunny and wouldn't play a big part in the competition after his injuries.
Post -2003 Cullen reinvented himself as a defensive Fullback for Munster for a few seasons but had a lot of time out with a dodgy shoulder.
Yeah, Cullen being left our had nothing to do with rugby, Mitchell selected two midfielders (Mils, Atiga) and two players from the same team (Rangi and Blair) over Cullen.
Cullen was one of the best performing 15s of the 2003 Super 12, even if he wasn't at his peak level, Rangi is a fair enough selection over him but they were lucky Mils turned into a class 15 that year.
Also handy to remember Mitchell didn't rate Jeff Wilson as well.
Mitch liked players that reminded him of himself. Journeymen
what, were you 3 in 2003?
Mcdonald, Atiga, and Ben Blair are not 3 names I think of when I consider who the best FBs ever were. Cullen still had something in the tank, had a great Super season if my memory serves, and IMHO he should have gone before either of the last 2 guys on that list
Mils, Dougie, Joe, Carlos, Ma'a Nonu. Pretty sure Mitch gave them all a start, most of them in 2003
If we were going forward pack you might have a better argument
Mitch gets far more shit for coaching and selecting thrown his way than is deserved.
I don't think he got shit for that so much as his intransigence in dealing with the public. Also the rather lightweight form of the pack.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky wasn't Ben Blair the backup (and very accurate) kicker? Not something I recall Cullen being famous for?
Carlos Spencer and Leon Macdonald were the main goal kickers in the 2003 squad. A backup, young Second Five in that squad called Dan Carter turned out to be useful with the boot. Not really convinced by the need for a fourth goal kicker...
Cullen got left out because Mitchell and Deans thought he was an arrogant fluffybunny and wouldn't play a big part in the competition after his injuries.
Post -2003 Cullen reinvented himself as a defensive Fullback for Munster for a few seasons but had a lot of time out with a dodgy shoulder.
Yeah, Cullen being left our had nothing to do with rugby, Mitchell selected two midfielders (Mils, Atiga) and two players from the same team (Rangi and Blair) over Cullen.
Cullen was one of the best performing 15s of the 2003 Super 12, even if he wasn't at his peak level, Rangi is a fair enough selection over him but they were lucky Mils turned into a class 15 that year.
Also handy to remember Mitchell didn't rate Jeff Wilson as well.
Mitch liked players that reminded him of himself. Journeymen
what, were you 3 in 2003?
Mcdonald, Atiga, and Ben Blair are not 3 names I think of when I consider who the best FBs ever were. Cullen still had something in the tank, had a great Super season if my memory serves, and IMHO he should have gone before either of the last 2 guys on that list
Mils, Dougie, Joe, Carlos, Ma'a Nonu. Pretty sure Mitch gave them all a start, most of them in 2003
If we were going forward pack you might have a better argument
Mitch gets far more shit for coaching and selecting thrown his way than is deserved.
I don't think he got shit for that so much as his intransigence in dealing with the public. Also the rather lightweight form of the pack.
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky wasn't Ben Blair the backup (and very accurate) kicker? Not something I recall Cullen being famous for?
Carlos Spencer and Leon Macdonald were the main goal kickers in the 2003 squad. A backup, young Second Five in that squad called Dan Carter turned out to be useful with the boot. Not really convinced by the need for a fourth goal kicker...
Cullen got left out because Mitchell and Deans thought he was an arrogant fluffybunny and wouldn't play a big part in the competition after his injuries.
Post -2003 Cullen reinvented himself as a defensive Fullback for Munster for a few seasons but had a lot of time out with a dodgy shoulder.
Yeah, Cullen being left our had nothing to do with rugby, Mitchell selected two midfielders (Mils, Atiga) and two players from the same team (Rangi and Blair) over Cullen.
Cullen was one of the best performing 15s of the 2003 Super 12, even if he wasn't at his peak level, Rangi is a fair enough selection over him but they were lucky Mils turned into a class 15 that year.
Also handy to remember Mitchell didn't rate Jeff Wilson as well.
Mitch liked players that reminded him of himself. Journeymen
what, were you 3 in 2003?
Mcdonald, Atiga, and Ben Blair are not 3 names I think of when I consider who the best FBs ever were. Cullen still had something in the tank, had a great Super season if my memory serves, and IMHO he should have gone before either of the last 2 guys on that list
Mils, Dougie, Joe, Carlos, Ma'a Nonu. Pretty sure Mitch gave them all a start, most of them in 2003
If we were going forward pack you might have a better argument
Mitch gets far more shit for coaching and selecting thrown his way than is deserved.
I don't think he got shit for that so much as his intransigence in dealing with the public. Also the rather lightweight form of the pack.
weird dude, upset everyone
And i totally agree with the pack stuff.
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@gt12 I don't see JB being preferred to Ioane as the midfield cover if we start with Havili and ALB. To me, Jordie either starts at FB or isn't in the 23. And if he starts at FB then he is the most likely to be replaced at some stage (by BB or DMac).
So something like this:
9 Smith
10 Mo'unga
11 Ioane
12 Havili
13 ALB
14 Reece
15 J Barrett21 TJP
22 B Barrett/DMac
23 Jordan/Clarke@bovidae said in All Blacks 2021:
@gt12 I don't see JB being preferred to Ioane as the midfield cover if we start with Havili and ALB. To me, Jordie either starts at FB or isn't in the 23. And if he starts at FB then he is the most likely to be replaced at some stage (by BB or DMac).
So something like this:
9 Smith
10 Mo'unga
11 Ioane
12 Havili
13 ALB
14 Reece
15 J Barrett21 TJP
22 B Barrett/DMac
23 Jordan/ClarkeAgreed that Jordie has to start at fullback. Especially against the Boks.
If the All Blacks don't go into that game with a very distinct mindset to win the aerial battle than they will be setting themselves up for failure.DMac can't be faulted for his bravery but he can't dominate space in the high ball contest like J Barrett can. For that reason I'd put Rieko and Jordan on the wings too. Horses for courses.
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@bovidae said in All Blacks 2021:
@gt12 I don't see JB being preferred to Ioane as the midfield cover if we start with Havili and ALB. To me, Jordie either starts at FB or isn't in the 23. And if he starts at FB then he is the most likely to be replaced at some stage (by BB or DMac).
So something like this:
9 Smith
10 Mo'unga
11 Ioane
12 Havili
13 ALB
14 Reece
15 J Barrett21 TJP
22 B Barrett/DMac
23 Jordan/ClarkeAgreed that Jordie has to start at fullback. Especially against the Boks.
If the All Blacks don't go into that game with a very distinct mindset to win the aerial battle than they will be setting themselves up for failure.DMac can't be faulted for his bravery but he can't dominate space in the high ball contest like J Barrett can. For that reason I'd put Rieko and Jordan on the wings too. Horses for courses.
@frye Yeah - that's my team too.
It doesn't quite have a Nonu/Julian Savea type of player, but Rieko and Jordie are big enough to hit the ball up effectively if that is what is required - and Havili can do that job OK in a Sam Tuitupou sort of way.
Covers most bases.
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@frye Yeah - that's my team too.
It doesn't quite have a Nonu/Julian Savea type of player, but Rieko and Jordie are big enough to hit the ball up effectively if that is what is required - and Havili can do that job OK in a Sam Tuitupou sort of way.
Covers most bases.
@chris-b said in All Blacks 2021:
@frye Yeah - that's my team too.
It doesn't quite have a Nonu/Julian Savea type of player, but Rieko and Jordie are big enough to hit the ball up effectively if that is what is required - and Havili can do that job OK in a Sam Tuitupou sort of way.
Covers most bases.
I'd be happy to see Clarke* come back in. But the backs are all looking sharp right now. Good mix of speed, skill and size.
At the expense of Bridge or Ennor obviously. :thumbs_up:
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@chris-b said in All Blacks 2021:
@frye Yeah - that's my team too.
It doesn't quite have a Nonu/Julian Savea type of player, but Rieko and Jordie are big enough to hit the ball up effectively if that is what is required - and Havili can do that job OK in a Sam Tuitupou sort of way.
Covers most bases.
I'd be happy to see Clarke* come back in. But the backs are all looking sharp right now. Good mix of speed, skill and size.
At the expense of Bridge or Ennor obviously. :thumbs_up:
@frye said in All Blacks 2021:
@chris-b said in All Blacks 2021:
@frye Yeah - that's my team too.
It doesn't quite have a Nonu/Julian Savea type of player, but Rieko and Jordie are big enough to hit the ball up effectively if that is what is required - and Havili can do that job OK in a Sam Tuitupou sort of way.
Covers most bases.
I'd be happy to see Clarke* come back in. But the backs are all looking sharp right now. Good mix of speed, skill and size.
At the expense of Bridge or Ennor obviously. :thumbs_up:
Clarke is a good in because he provides something a bit different. Needs to be up to speed though.
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I wonder if Clarke trimmed down for the sevens as that is what has occurred in the past when some of the ABs have tried to make that transition. Maybe 2 weeks in MIQ has reversed that!
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2021:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky wasn't Ben Blair the backup (and very accurate) kicker? Not something I recall Cullen being famous for?
Carlos Spencer and Leon Macdonald were the main goal kickers in the 2003 squad. A backup, young Second Five in that squad called Dan Carter turned out to be useful with the boot. Not really convinced by the need for a fourth goal kicker...
Cullen got left out because Mitchell and Deans thought he was an arrogant fluffybunny and wouldn't play a big part in the competition after his injuries.
Post -2003 Cullen reinvented himself as a defensive Fullback for Munster for a few seasons but had a lot of time out with a dodgy shoulder.
Yeah, Cullen being left our had nothing to do with rugby, Mitchell selected two midfielders (Mils, Atiga) and two players from the same team (Rangi and Blair) over Cullen.
Cullen was one of the best performing 15s of the 2003 Super 12, even if he wasn't at his peak level, Rangi is a fair enough selection over him but they were lucky Mils turned into a class 15 that year.
Also handy to remember Mitchell didn't rate Jeff Wilson as well.
Mitch liked players that reminded him of himself. Journeymen
what, were you 3 in 2003?
Mcdonald, Atiga, and Ben Blair are not 3 names I think of when I consider who the best FBs ever were. Cullen still had something in the tank, had a great Super season if my memory serves, and IMHO he should have gone before either of the last 2 guys on that list
Mils, Dougie, Joe, Carlos, Ma'a Nonu. Pretty sure Mitch gave them all a start, most of them in 2003
Carlos Spencer (AB 951) was first picked for the ABs by Laurie Mains for the tour of Italy and France at the end of the 1995.
Doug Howlett (AB 992) was first capped by Wayne Smith in 2000.
Mils, Joe Rok, Ma'a Nonu, Richie McCaw, Dan Carter, Andrew Hore, Kevin Mealamu and Ali Williams were all first picked Cueball. But so were Paul Steinmetz, Ben Atiga and Keith Lowen. As a Selector, Mitchell was hit and miss.
34 players made their debut during the Mitchell era. Mitchell’s first game, just a few weeks after he was appointed was a mid-week tour match against Ireland A, so he debuted a few newbies in that one.
Ben Blair, Dave Hewett, David Hill, Simon Maling, Nathan Mauger, Paul Miller, Roger Randle, Dion Waller, Tom Willis, Aaron Mauger, Richie McCaw, Joe McDonnell, Sam Harding, Sam Broomhall, Steve Devine, Andrea Hore, Keith Lowen, Keith Robinson, Ali Williams, Danny Lee, Brad Mika, Tony Woodcock, Keven Mealamu, Daniel Braid, Rodney So’oialo, Regan King, Paul Steinmetz, Ma’a Nonu, Joe Rokocoko, Mils Muliaina, Dan Carter, Brad Thorn, Corey Flynn, Ben Atiga
Bold are those that went on to play 50+ tests.
@act-crusader said in All Blacks 2021:
34 players made their debut during the Mitchell era. Mitchell’s first game, just a few weeks after he was appointed was a mid-week tour match against Ireland A, so he debuted a few newbies in that one.
Ben Blair, Dave Hewett, David Hill, Simon Maling, Nathan Mauger, Paul Miller, Roger Randle, Dion Waller, Tom Willis, Aaron Mauger, Richie McCaw, Joe McDonnell, Sam Harding, Sam Broomhall, Steve Devine, Andrea Hore, Keith Lowen, Keith Robinson, Ali Williams, Danny Lee, Brad Mika, Tony Woodcock, Keven Mealamu, Daniel Braid, Rodney So’oialo, Regan King, Paul Steinmetz, Ma’a Nonu, Joe Rokocoko, Mils Muliaina, Dan Carter, Brad Thorn, Corey Flynn, Ben Atiga
Bold are those that went on to play 50+ tests.
Smith and his panel picked that 2001 EOYT squad though so McCaw and Mauger go to him in many ways.
