Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth)
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@chris said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
This game will tells us a few things,
BB is he still want we remember hopefully he is.
Weber is he really an AB HB
JB is he our best FB option.
How important is Whitelock as a lock and a leader.If the First 3 are no then we badly need Smith,Mounga and we will need Whitelock back for SA.
I disagree, it is just one test, a massively changed side. It's not like the side with Smith, Mo'unga and Whitelock looked that great vs Fiji or a fair bit of Bled 1. This game, combined with the 2 argentina games, might answer some of those questions. That's when we might have a good idea, one test is never enough of a sample
@machpants said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@chris said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
This game will tells us a few things,
BB is he still want we remember hopefully he is.
Weber is he really an AB HB
JB is he our best FB option.
How important is Whitelock as a lock and a leader.If the First 3 are no then we badly need Smith,Mounga and we will need Whitelock back for SA.
I disagree, it is just one test, a massively changed side. It's not like the side with Smith, Mo'unga and Whitelock looked that great vs Fiji or a fair bit of Bled 1. This game, combined with the 2 argentina games, might answer some of those questions. That's when we might have a good idea, one test is never enough of a sample
Yes and no it will give us some idea,I think we all know rugby enough to see through the one test scenario.
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@tim said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@chris Big test for Retallick too. Can he step up?
I should imagine he'll play for 60 and Scott will be asked to see the game through. I think Brodie and the young Tupou Vaa'i are too alike.
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@landp said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@tim One player I don't worry about is Brodie. To a certain extent he's been rushed back in I feel. I think we'll know where he's at in the Bok games ... they will be huge.
He's hardly looked out of place either, just rusty.
@nepia said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@landp said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@tim One player I don't worry about is Brodie. To a certain extent he's been rushed back in I feel. I think we'll know where he's at in the Bok games ... they will be huge.
He's hardly looked out of place either, just rusty.
+1000. Beyond the physicality and what you want in a lock (lineout, cleanouts, carrying etc), his skillset has literally redefined what an ideal international modern lock looks like even now. All time great for me.
He just needs time to count his ill-gotten Japanese Yen, bulk up a bit and dust off the rust.
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@kev said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@taniwharugby I haven’t really gotten over the English overpowering us at the World Cup. Prior to that we had a few escapes vs Boks where we struggled with their power game. Since then I don’t know that we have progressed. To some extent you have to match the power in the forwards at set piece but then get our running game going. I think Damien Mckenzie was their big idea but he lacks the consistency to be relied upon, as that creative player. That said we are still at our best when the backs are instinctive but with better decision making and execution than recently. No stability lately is an issue and we don’t have the experience and class that the Carter, Nonu and Smith combination had. And, as always, it starts with the forwards, and again only Whitelock ( who is not there ) and maybe Taylor are tried and true. We are definitely rebuilding so the opportunity is their for so many to step up - just hard to get a feel for whether this team has something special in them. If Akira doesn’t fire against Bok’s, that would be a bummer. Looking forward to that game.
Guys like Carter are outliers in any rugby discussion but consistency and class comes through combinations and experience. Nonu developed over time. Nonu and Smith also developed because they were allowed to. It was only after 2011 imo people started to really notice how bl**dy good they were individually (both, esp Nonu) and as a team.
NZ has been chopping and changing at 12-13 and tbh all over the place for ... how long? No one has been able to hold down 6. ABs vs England RWC just one example and totally exposed by it.
Akira strikes me as a confidence player who needs to feel fully and 100% part of a group. He has all the attributes (mental confidence aside) to be the real deal and starting to show it. If you cut him after the odd average game you'll destroy what he's starting to show. Not everyone has the mental steel of McCaw.
Not convinced all the AB parts are there but I see some combinations just forming. I'd keep 9-10 (AS, RM) and 12-13 (DH, ALB) as stable as possible and ... and EVEN if I'm not 100% on Ardie as a starting 8, keep 6-7-8 pretty stable too (until Sam Cane is back).
Locks are fine, but lose PT from the squad and develop someone else. Anyone else tbh.
Tell Rieko he's primarily a winger at AB level. Let Beauden and Jordie battle it out for starting 15 in the "top" side. Massage Beauden's ego as needed with the odd game at 10. If he can't handle it I've seen no evidence in years he's worth the $$$$ he is no doubt on.
If BB's best role is off the bench (imo it is), DMac is not in the 23.There you go ... all sorted, and I wouldn't even call myself a Kiwi!!!
Any questions before I send the bill to Fozzie?? :winking_face:
@landp said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@kev said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@taniwharugby I haven’t really gotten over the English overpowering us at the World Cup. Prior to that we had a few escapes vs Boks where we struggled with their power game. Since then I don’t know that we have progressed. To some extent you have to match the power in the forwards at set piece but then get our running game going. I think Damien Mckenzie was their big idea but he lacks the consistency to be relied upon, as that creative player. That said we are still at our best when the backs are instinctive but with better decision making and execution than recently. No stability lately is an issue and we don’t have the experience and class that the Carter, Nonu and Smith combination had. And, as always, it starts with the forwards, and again only Whitelock ( who is not there ) and maybe Taylor are tried and true. We are definitely rebuilding so the opportunity is their for so many to step up - just hard to get a feel for whether this team has something special in them. If Akira doesn’t fire against Bok’s, that would be a bummer. Looking forward to that game.
Guys like Carter are outliers in any rugby discussion but consistency and class comes through combinations and experience. Nonu developed over time. Nonu and Smith also developed because they were allowed to. It was only after 2011 imo people started to really notice how bl**dy good they were individually (both, esp Nonu) and as a team.
NZ has been chopping and changing at 12-13 and tbh all over the place for ... how long? No one has been able to hold down 6. ABs vs England RWC just one example and totally exposed by it.
Akira strikes me as a confidence player who needs to feel fully and 100% part of a group. He has all the attributes (mental confidence aside) to be the real deal and starting to show it. If you cut him after the odd average game you'll destroy what he's starting to show. Not everyone has the mental steel of McCaw.
Not convinced all the AB parts are there but I see some combinations just forming. I'd keep 9-10 (AS, RM) and 12-13 (DH, ALB) as stable as possible and ... and EVEN if I'm not 100% on Ardie as a starting 8, keep 6-7-8 pretty stable too (until Sam Cane is back).
Locks are fine, but lose PT from the squad and develop someone else. Anyone else tbh.
Tell Rieko he's primarily a winger at AB level. Let Beauden and Jordie battle it out for starting 15 in the "top" side. Massage Beauden's ego as needed with the odd game at 10. If he can't handle it I've seen no evidence in years he's worth the $$$$ he is no doubt on.
If BB's best role is off the bench (imo it is), DMac is not in the 23.There you go ... all sorted, and I wouldn't even call myself a Kiwi!!!
Any questions before I send the bill to Fozzie?? :winking_face:
But world famous in New Zilland
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@machpants said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@chris said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
This game will tells us a few things,
BB is he still want we remember hopefully he is.
Weber is he really an AB HB
JB is he our best FB option.
How important is Whitelock as a lock and a leader.If the First 3 are no then we badly need Smith,Mounga and we will need Whitelock back for SA.
I disagree, it is just one test, a massively changed side. It's not like the side with Smith, Mo'unga and Whitelock looked that great vs Fiji or a fair bit of Bled 1. This game, combined with the 2 argentina games, might answer some of those questions. That's when we might have a good idea, one test is never enough of a sample
Yes and no it will give us some idea,I think we all know rugby enough to see through the one test scenario.
@chris said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@machpants said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@chris said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
This game will tells us a few things,
BB is he still want we remember hopefully he is.
Weber is he really an AB HB
JB is he our best FB option.
How important is Whitelock as a lock and a leader.If the First 3 are no then we badly need Smith,Mounga and we will need Whitelock back for SA.
I disagree, it is just one test, a massively changed side. It's not like the side with Smith, Mo'unga and Whitelock looked that great vs Fiji or a fair bit of Bled 1. This game, combined with the 2 argentina games, might answer some of those questions. That's when we might have a good idea, one test is never enough of a sample
Yes and no it will give us some idea,I think we all know rugby enough to see through the one test scenario.
Since when? One bad test is usually enough to write off a player.
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@landp said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@kev said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@taniwharugby I haven’t really gotten over the English overpowering us at the World Cup. Prior to that we had a few escapes vs Boks where we struggled with their power game. Since then I don’t know that we have progressed. To some extent you have to match the power in the forwards at set piece but then get our running game going. I think Damien Mckenzie was their big idea but he lacks the consistency to be relied upon, as that creative player. That said we are still at our best when the backs are instinctive but with better decision making and execution than recently. No stability lately is an issue and we don’t have the experience and class that the Carter, Nonu and Smith combination had. And, as always, it starts with the forwards, and again only Whitelock ( who is not there ) and maybe Taylor are tried and true. We are definitely rebuilding so the opportunity is their for so many to step up - just hard to get a feel for whether this team has something special in them. If Akira doesn’t fire against Bok’s, that would be a bummer. Looking forward to that game.
Guys like Carter are outliers in any rugby discussion but consistency and class comes through combinations and experience. Nonu developed over time. Nonu and Smith also developed because they were allowed to. It was only after 2011 imo people started to really notice how bl**dy good they were individually (both, esp Nonu) and as a team.
NZ has been chopping and changing at 12-13 and tbh all over the place for ... how long? No one has been able to hold down 6. ABs vs England RWC just one example and totally exposed by it.
Akira strikes me as a confidence player who needs to feel fully and 100% part of a group. He has all the attributes (mental confidence aside) to be the real deal and starting to show it. If you cut him after the odd average game you'll destroy what he's starting to show. Not everyone has the mental steel of McCaw.
Not convinced all the AB parts are there but I see some combinations just forming. I'd keep 9-10 (AS, RM) and 12-13 (DH, ALB) as stable as possible and ... and EVEN if I'm not 100% on Ardie as a starting 8, keep 6-7-8 pretty stable too (until Sam Cane is back).
Locks are fine, but lose PT from the squad and develop someone else. Anyone else tbh.
Tell Rieko he's primarily a winger at AB level. Let Beauden and Jordie battle it out for starting 15 in the "top" side. Massage Beauden's ego as needed with the odd game at 10. If he can't handle it I've seen no evidence in years he's worth the $$$$ he is no doubt on.
If BB's best role is off the bench (imo it is), DMac is not in the 23.There you go ... all sorted, and I wouldn't even call myself a Kiwi!!!
Any questions before I send the bill to Fozzie?? :winking_face:
But world famous in New Zilland
@booboo Yeah, well I won't mock the accent as I developed a fair old kiwi twang to avoid the piss-taking at school ... like apparently we say "fark" as opposed to "f*ck" (I'm told a bit remains, mainly wore off after years working all over)
Does Lemon and Paeroa even exist these days, or is that one for the "Old guys discuss old stuff thread"?
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@chris said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@machpants said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@chris said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
This game will tells us a few things,
BB is he still want we remember hopefully he is.
Weber is he really an AB HB
JB is he our best FB option.
How important is Whitelock as a lock and a leader.If the First 3 are no then we badly need Smith,Mounga and we will need Whitelock back for SA.
I disagree, it is just one test, a massively changed side. It's not like the side with Smith, Mo'unga and Whitelock looked that great vs Fiji or a fair bit of Bled 1. This game, combined with the 2 argentina games, might answer some of those questions. That's when we might have a good idea, one test is never enough of a sample
Yes and no it will give us some idea,I think we all know rugby enough to see through the one test scenario.
Since when? One bad test is usually enough to write off a player.
@booboo said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@chris said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@machpants said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@chris said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
This game will tells us a few things,
BB is he still want we remember hopefully he is.
Weber is he really an AB HB
JB is he our best FB option.
How important is Whitelock as a lock and a leader.If the First 3 are no then we badly need Smith,Mounga and we will need Whitelock back for SA.
I disagree, it is just one test, a massively changed side. It's not like the side with Smith, Mo'unga and Whitelock looked that great vs Fiji or a fair bit of Bled 1. This game, combined with the 2 argentina games, might answer some of those questions. That's when we might have a good idea, one test is never enough of a sample
Yes and no it will give us some idea,I think we all know rugby enough to see through the one test scenario.
Since when? One bad test is usually enough to write off a player.
Put it together with other times in the jersey pretty easy if you open your eyes. -
@booboo Yeah, well I won't mock the accent as I developed a fair old kiwi twang to avoid the piss-taking at school ... like apparently we say "fark" as opposed to "f*ck" (I'm told a bit remains, mainly wore off after years working all over)
Does Lemon and Paeroa even exist these days, or is that one for the "Old guys discuss old stuff thread"?
@landp said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@booboo Yeah, well I won't mock the accent as I developed a fair old kiwi twang to avoid the piss-taking at school ... like apparently we say "fark" as opposed to "f*ck" (I'm told a bit remains, mainly wore off after years working all over)
Does Lemon and Paeroa even exist these days, or is that one for the "Old guys discuss old stuff thread"?
L&P is still a thing and is "world famous in My Zullund eh?" (Slogan from an ad campaign 20 odd years ago.) Can still get it in the NZ section at Coles (in Aus).
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@tim said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@chris Big test for Retallick too. Can he step up?
I want to see Retallick in the Boks game. The question marks are not about his ability in the open but can he be effective playing tight - matching and dominating his opposites. He carried an injury into the World Cup but was one of the disappointments.
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Does anyone know if this game's a sellout?
@canes4life said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
Does anyone know if this game's a sellout?
It was initially but with the date move and change from a Sat to Sun many have returned tickets so probably some seats available
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@booboo Yeah, well I won't mock the accent as I developed a fair old kiwi twang to avoid the piss-taking at school ... like apparently we say "fark" as opposed to "f*ck" (I'm told a bit remains, mainly wore off after years working all over)
Does Lemon and Paeroa even exist these days, or is that one for the "Old guys discuss old stuff thread"?
@landp said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@booboo Yeah, well I won't mock the accent as I developed a fair old kiwi twang to avoid the piss-taking at school ... like apparently we say "fark" as opposed to "f*ck" (I'm told a bit remains, mainly wore off after years working all over)
Does Lemon and Paeroa even exist these days, or is that one for the "Old guys discuss old stuff thread"?
Yeah but it's L&P - I keep reading your name as Land Pee which is very confusing and way too lowbrow for this esteemed forum.
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@landp said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@booboo Yeah, well I won't mock the accent as I developed a fair old kiwi twang to avoid the piss-taking at school ... like apparently we say "fark" as opposed to "f*ck" (I'm told a bit remains, mainly wore off after years working all over)
Does Lemon and Paeroa even exist these days, or is that one for the "Old guys discuss old stuff thread"?
Yeah but it's L&P - I keep reading your name as Land Pee which is very confusing and way too lowbrow for this esteemed forum.
@delicatessen I know it's "L&P" which is what I wanted but it won't take an ampersand in a username ...
I rather like "WorldFamousInNZ" but I might be accused of being up myself :winking_face: so will think about less grandiose alternatives
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@delicatessen I know it's "L&P" which is what I wanted but it won't take an ampersand in a username ...
I rather like "WorldFamousInNZ" but I might be accused of being up myself :winking_face: so will think about less grandiose alternatives
@landp
fair enough. LnP? Dunno. -
lets be honest, NZ is in a no win situation in this test.
We win, and everyone laments how shit Aus were and we shoulda won by more.
We lose and Fozzie is shit and cant believe they re-appointed him.
For me, its the tests v Arg, but more SA that I'm interested in, just like other teams like to measure themselves against us, I think we always like to measure ourselves against SA, and thier legend has certainly grown since winning the RWC and thier absence last year.
I'd like us to win in a 32-25 type match as we build toward Aregntina and SA
@taniwharugby said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
lets be honest, NZ is in a no win situation in this test.
We win, and everyone laments how shit Aus were and we shoulda won by more.
We lose and Fozzie is shit and cant believe they re-appointed him.
For me, its the tests v Arg, but more SA that I'm interested in, just like other teams like to measure themselves against us, I think we always like to measure ourselves against SA, and thier legend has certainly grown since winning the RWC and thier absence last year.
I'd like us to win in a 32-25 type match as we build toward Aregntina and SA
If you have to build towards ARG then your
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@chris said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@machpants said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@chris said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
This game will tells us a few things,
BB is he still want we remember hopefully he is.
Weber is he really an AB HB
JB is he our best FB option.
How important is Whitelock as a lock and a leader.If the First 3 are no then we badly need Smith,Mounga and we will need Whitelock back for SA.
I disagree, it is just one test, a massively changed side. It's not like the side with Smith, Mo'unga and Whitelock looked that great vs Fiji or a fair bit of Bled 1. This game, combined with the 2 argentina games, might answer some of those questions. That's when we might have a good idea, one test is never enough of a sample
Yes and no it will give us some idea,I think we all know rugby enough to see through the one test scenario.
Since when? One bad test is usually enough to write off a player.
@booboo said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@chris said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@machpants said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@chris said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
This game will tells us a few things,
BB is he still want we remember hopefully he is.
Weber is he really an AB HB
JB is he our best FB option.
How important is Whitelock as a lock and a leader.If the First 3 are no then we badly need Smith,Mounga and we will need Whitelock back for SA.
I disagree, it is just one test, a massively changed side. It's not like the side with Smith, Mo'unga and Whitelock looked that great vs Fiji or a fair bit of Bled 1. This game, combined with the 2 argentina games, might answer some of those questions. That's when we might have a good idea, one test is never enough of a sample
Yes and no it will give us some idea,I think we all know rugby enough to see through the one test scenario.
Since when? One bad test is usually enough to write off a player.
There was that most recent RWC game against England .. and most of those players are still with us. Plus I think JB has had a few howlers early on...
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@landp said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@booboo Yeah, well I won't mock the accent as I developed a fair old kiwi twang to avoid the piss-taking at school ... like apparently we say "fark" as opposed to "f*ck" (I'm told a bit remains, mainly wore off after years working all over)
Does Lemon and Paeroa even exist these days, or is that one for the "Old guys discuss old stuff thread"?
L&P is still a thing and is "world famous in My Zullund eh?" (Slogan from an ad campaign 20 odd years ago.) Can still get it in the NZ section at Coles (in Aus).
@booboo said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@landp said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@booboo Yeah, well I won't mock the accent as I developed a fair old kiwi twang to avoid the piss-taking at school ... like apparently we say "fark" as opposed to "f*ck" (I'm told a bit remains, mainly wore off after years working all over)
Does Lemon and Paeroa even exist these days, or is that one for the "Old guys discuss old stuff thread"?
L&P is still a thing and is "world famous in My Zullund eh?" (Slogan from an ad campaign 20 odd years ago.) Can still get it in the NZ section at Coles (in Aus).
It doesn't taste the same though does it? I tried one last year and it just didn't taste the same (although my tastebuds are unreliable).
Yeah you can buy it at supermarkets and it is on tap at the Auckland Airport lounge. -
@booboo said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@chris said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@machpants said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@chris said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
This game will tells us a few things,
BB is he still want we remember hopefully he is.
Weber is he really an AB HB
JB is he our best FB option.
How important is Whitelock as a lock and a leader.If the First 3 are no then we badly need Smith,Mounga and we will need Whitelock back for SA.
I disagree, it is just one test, a massively changed side. It's not like the side with Smith, Mo'unga and Whitelock looked that great vs Fiji or a fair bit of Bled 1. This game, combined with the 2 argentina games, might answer some of those questions. That's when we might have a good idea, one test is never enough of a sample
Yes and no it will give us some idea,I think we all know rugby enough to see through the one test scenario.
Since when? One bad test is usually enough to write off a player.
There was that most recent RWC game against England .. and most of those players are still with us. Plus I think JB has had a few howlers early on...
@nostrildamus said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@booboo said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@chris said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@machpants said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@chris said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
This game will tells us a few things,
BB is he still want we remember hopefully he is.
Weber is he really an AB HB
JB is he our best FB option.
How important is Whitelock as a lock and a leader.If the First 3 are no then we badly need Smith,Mounga and we will need Whitelock back for SA.
I disagree, it is just one test, a massively changed side. It's not like the side with Smith, Mo'unga and Whitelock looked that great vs Fiji or a fair bit of Bled 1. This game, combined with the 2 argentina games, might answer some of those questions. That's when we might have a good idea, one test is never enough of a sample
Yes and no it will give us some idea,I think we all know rugby enough to see through the one test scenario.
Since when? One bad test is usually enough to write off a player.
There was that most recent RWC game against England .. and most of those players are still with us. Plus I think JB has had a few howlers early on...
Yeah, the ABs have seemed to operate a "credit-in-the-bank" kind of system for ages, or JB would have been axed quite a few times. Players who don't show what the coaches are looking for seem to get eased out ... like Josh Ioane, Sotuto I suspect (with work-ons). AB squad selection has always looked okay to me, maybe if anything a bit slow to drop a few.
It's not exactly like Eddie Jones who pulled a young lock in his first game before half-time ... never to play for England again? A few similar examples with Eddie.
The core issues since maybe 2017 and Shag have more been a lack of selection consistency (combinations cannot develop) and too much flexibility trying to cram all the Skillz(TM) into one side (playing people out of position). Really these seem more coaching/strategy issues.
Team for this game looks good and selection approach pretty coherent ... again :astonished_face:
