Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth)
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This will be an unpopular opinion, but sober NZZP now thinks that a Red was the right call.
It was a reflex action by JB to losing balance, but ultimately if you raise your sprigs you open yourself up to the ref. No matter the intent, raised sprigs to the face are going to result in a Red every time. If JB doesn't lift his foot, then it's play on, but as soon as that happens I think Red is the right call. Reckless play, but that's life.
@nzzp said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
This will be an unpopular opinion, but sober NZZP now thinks that a Red was the right call.
It was a reflex action by JB to losing balance, but ultimately if you raise your sprigs you open yourself up to the ref. No matter the intent, raised sprigs to the face are going to result in a Red every time. If JB doesn't lift his foot, then it's play on, but as soon as that happens I think Red is the right call. Reckless play, but that's life.
Some English twit on a page on FB thought the red was justification for Umaga and Mealamu “getting away with thuggery” in 2005.
I got some popcorn and was ready to read all the hateful comments but someone deleted it. Stink.
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@nzzp said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
This will be an unpopular opinion, but sober NZZP now thinks that a Red was the right call.
It was a reflex action by JB to losing balance, but ultimately if you raise your sprigs you open yourself up to the ref. No matter the intent, raised sprigs to the face are going to result in a Red every time. If JB doesn't lift his foot, then it's play on, but as soon as that happens I think Red is the right call. Reckless play, but that's life.
Some English twit on a page on FB thought the red was justification for Umaga and Mealamu “getting away with thuggery” in 2005.
I got some popcorn and was ready to read all the hateful comments but someone deleted it. Stink.
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@chimoaus said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
Interesting stat that the Wallabies had more carries and metres made?
@nostrildamus made my point.
Often the better team will have less time in possession because they'll score earlier in possession, and the lesser team will throw waves of attack against a better D.
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@nta said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
Tackler must release. So....
So does the ball carrier?
@booboo said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@nta said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
Tackler must release. So....
So does the ball carrier?
And both of them "immediately".
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@mn5 said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
Some English twit on a page on FB thought the red was justification for Umaga and Mealamu “getting away with thuggery” in 2005.
The media have a lot to answer for.
@nzzp said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@mn5 said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
Some English twit on a page on FB thought the red was justification for Umaga and Mealamu “getting away with thuggery” in 2005.
The media have a lot to answer for.
As bad as all the bullshit was in 2005 imagine how bad it would be in 2021 ? Umaga and Mealamu would cause servers to have meltdowns with all their tearful public apologies they were forced to make.
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This will be an unpopular opinion, but sober NZZP now thinks that a Red was the right call.
It was a reflex action by JB to losing balance, but ultimately if you raise your sprigs you open yourself up to the ref. No matter the intent, raised sprigs to the face are going to result in a Red every time. If JB doesn't lift his foot, then it's play on, but as soon as that happens I think Red is the right call. Reckless play, but that's life.
@nzzp and yet if someones head was on the ground and you kicked it, same result....
Guess the kicker (boom) will be the length of rest he gets.
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@nzzp and yet if someones head was on the ground and you kicked it, same result....
Guess the kicker (boom) will be the length of rest he gets.
@taniwharugby said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@nzzp and yet if someones head was on the ground and you kicked it, same result....
Guess the kicker (boom) will be the length of rest he gets.
I like what you did there
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No Whitelock, Smith, mounga. Savea and Taylor off early.
Still Aussie not even in it, even with 20mins at 14, and a very home ref performance.
@kirwan said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
No Whitelock, Smith, mounga. Savea and Taylor off early.
Still Aussie not even in it, even with 20mins at 14, and a very home ref performance.
Moody, Cane, Goodhue, Coles. Throw in Clarke (although I'd have him outside the XXIII), and a couple of rotations.
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Jordie deserves a bit of luck. Best fb last year and probably this also. Hasnt had a fair run I reckon.
Also if BB and JB are in the side, JB should take the goal kicks and touch finders
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@nostrildamus said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@voodoo said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
Can't teach pace
Actually you can. In the US it is 76.2 centimetres (30 inches).
Ploise exploin?
@booboo said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@nostrildamus said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@voodoo said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
Can't teach pace
Actually you can. In the US it is 76.2 centimetres (30 inches).
Ploise exploin?
I guess you can teach pace, is an actual thing
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@jc said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
Much more of this and I may have to consider that maybe Foster isn’t completely clueless.
Sacrilege
@booboo said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@jc said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
Much more of this and I may have to consider that maybe Foster isn’t completely clueless.
Sacrilege
I know. I feel dirty
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@stargazer Was thinking if players need to be (or can be) brought into the squad.
Next hooker and fullback on the list, but Savea is harder as he covers 7, 8, and 6. Tom Robinson is the next best loose forward, but 6 is covered. Who are the next best at 7 and 8?
@tim said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@stargazer Was thinking if players need to be (or can be) brought into the squad.
Next hooker and fullback on the list, but Savea is harder as he covers 7, 8, and 6. Tom Robinson is the next best loose forward, but 6 is covered. Who are the next best at 7 and 8?
Jacobsen to 8, Blackader covers from the bench
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@dan54 said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@antipodean said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@nostrildamus said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
What was the general feeling on BB and DMac?
Beaudy did some lovely things and will be better for the run. Given the general kicking display I'm loathe to rip into him about that - it looked like everyone had some issues there for some reason.
DMac did nothing bad and nothing great.
Have they swapped to adidas balls, same thing happened in TT , noone kicked any good in Aus.
Opposite, NZ use Adidas balls, this game (and everything outside NZ) use Gilbert
@machpants said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@dan54 said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@antipodean said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@nostrildamus said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
What was the general feeling on BB and DMac?
Beaudy did some lovely things and will be better for the run. Given the general kicking display I'm loathe to rip into him about that - it looked like everyone had some issues there for some reason.
DMac did nothing bad and nothing great.
Have they swapped to adidas balls, same thing happened in TT , noone kicked any good in Aus.
Opposite, NZ use Adidas balls, this game (and everything outside NZ) use Gilbert
Yep, well I knew it was or other, just know the kickers were talking about it during TT. Apparently they fly differently or something. Hell it's like cricket balls to me , everyone talks about the brand of ball, but thay all just cricket balls to me! This is same.
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@machpants said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@dan54 said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@antipodean said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@nostrildamus said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
What was the general feeling on BB and DMac?
Beaudy did some lovely things and will be better for the run. Given the general kicking display I'm loathe to rip into him about that - it looked like everyone had some issues there for some reason.
DMac did nothing bad and nothing great.
Have they swapped to adidas balls, same thing happened in TT , noone kicked any good in Aus.
Opposite, NZ use Adidas balls, this game (and everything outside NZ) use Gilbert
Yep, well I knew it was or other, just know the kickers were talking about it during TT. Apparently they fly differently or something. Hell it's like cricket balls to me , everyone talks about the brand of ball, but thay all just cricket balls to me! This is same.
@dan54 said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@machpants said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@dan54 said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@antipodean said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@nostrildamus said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
What was the general feeling on BB and DMac?
Beaudy did some lovely things and will be better for the run. Given the general kicking display I'm loathe to rip into him about that - it looked like everyone had some issues there for some reason.
DMac did nothing bad and nothing great.
Have they swapped to adidas balls, same thing happened in TT , noone kicked any good in Aus.
Opposite, NZ use Adidas balls, this game (and everything outside NZ) use Gilbert
Yep, well I knew it was or other, just know the kickers were talking about it during TT. Apparently they fly differently or something. Hell it's like cricket balls to me , everyone talks about the brand of ball, but thay all just cricket balls to me! This is same.
i was surprised how different the balls were, we use gilbert at the club but one of the hookers brought down his adidas ball to practice throwing...its super light, noticeably different to even the match day gilbert
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@nzzp and yet if someones head was on the ground and you kicked it, same result....
Guess the kicker (boom) will be the length of rest he gets.
@taniwharugby said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@nzzp and yet if someones head was on the ground and you kicked it, same result....
Guess the kicker (boom) will be the length of rest he gets.
The review decision will be 'interesting' to put it mildly.
As far as I can see the head contact process doesn't directly cover this situation but if you followed it as if it was equivalent to a leading elbow...
Process questions and considerations
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Has head contact occurred? YES
Head contact includes neck and throat area -
Was there foul play?
Considerations:
Intentional NO
Reckless MAYBE
Avoidable N/A -
What was the degree of danger?
Considerations include:
Direct vs indirect contact
High force vs low force MEDIUM? -
Is there any mitigation?
Considerations include:
Line of sight NONE (Was looking skyward while well above the other player)
Sudden and significant drop or movement N/A
Clear attempt to change height N/A
Level of control DEBATABLE
Upright - passive vs dynamic
The ref's view seemed to be equating the situation with an elbow lead and because JB pushed out with his foot/leg and made head contact it was deemed 'deliberate'. Where this situation doesn't equate is in two major areas IMO. One is whether JB could see what was in front of him (maybe his peripheral vision should have made him aware that there was an oncoming player) and the other is whether he was in control of his action (defence will argue that he is a gangly unco giraffe and was sticking his leg forward to gain balance in the air.
Defence will also argue that he should have no expectation of a defender coming into his landing area while he was still in the air and there was no contest happening.I would think that the judiciary would be reluctant to sully a player's career by calling this deliberate so will revert to reckless and avoidable. There is plenty of wriggle room available to them here as the situation happened after the ball was contestable.
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@bovidae said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@machpants said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@bovidae said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
Coles (when fit) will be the hooker joining the squad.
After 2 weeks quarantine
I certainly wasn't implying he would be available immediately, just that they can't just bring over a new player to join the squad unless a MIQ spot in NZ is found for when they return. Foster might need to find a Kiwi hooker in Aust in an emergency.
I think in an emergency Coles stays in NZ, and hooker #5 joins ABs. Unless the theoretical kiwi hooker in Oz is in QLD or WA, they still have 2 weeks quarantine. That's the real challenge of this tour, juggling injury replacements.
@machpants said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@bovidae said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@machpants said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@bovidae said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
Coles (when fit) will be the hooker joining the squad.
After 2 weeks quarantine
I certainly wasn't implying he would be available immediately, just that they can't just bring over a new player to join the squad unless a MIQ spot in NZ is found for when they return. Foster might need to find a Kiwi hooker in Aust in an emergency.
I think in an emergency Coles stays in NZ, and hooker #5 joins ABs. Unless the theoretical kiwi hooker in Oz is in QLD or WA, they still have 2 weeks quarantine. That's the real challenge of this tour, juggling injury replacements.
Am available
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@taniwharugby said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@nzzp and yet if someones head was on the ground and you kicked it, same result....
Guess the kicker (boom) will be the length of rest he gets.
The review decision will be 'interesting' to put it mildly.
As far as I can see the head contact process doesn't directly cover this situation but if you followed it as if it was equivalent to a leading elbow...
Process questions and considerations
-
Has head contact occurred? YES
Head contact includes neck and throat area -
Was there foul play?
Considerations:
Intentional NO
Reckless MAYBE
Avoidable N/A -
What was the degree of danger?
Considerations include:
Direct vs indirect contact
High force vs low force MEDIUM? -
Is there any mitigation?
Considerations include:
Line of sight NONE (Was looking skyward while well above the other player)
Sudden and significant drop or movement N/A
Clear attempt to change height N/A
Level of control DEBATABLE
Upright - passive vs dynamic
The ref's view seemed to be equating the situation with an elbow lead and because JB pushed out with his foot/leg and made head contact it was deemed 'deliberate'. Where this situation doesn't equate is in two major areas IMO. One is whether JB could see what was in front of him (maybe his peripheral vision should have made him aware that there was an oncoming player) and the other is whether he was in control of his action (defence will argue that he is a gangly unco giraffe and was sticking his leg forward to gain balance in the air.
Defence will also argue that he should have no expectation of a defender coming into his landing area while he was still in the air and there was no contest happening.I would think that the judiciary would be reluctant to sully a player's career by calling this deliberate so will revert to reckless and avoidable. There is plenty of wriggle room available to them here as the situation happened after the ball was contestable.
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