Black Caps - Bangladesh tour 2021
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@bovidae said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
A timely opinion piece by Geenty on CdG today. He's not wrong and agrees with others in this thread.
He's not wrong. But CdG is already not in the top 16 NZ T20 players selected for the T20WC (which includes 2 others doing his role; Neesham & Mitchell) so it is hardly news that he isn't lording it in this format. But, yeah, it is worse than "not lording it", he's a passenger with the bat, but we look stronger on these Bangladesh pitches with him bowling rather than one of the countless superfulous tailender seamers in the squad.
He also struggled in UAE on Pakistan tour in 2019, in all formats, which is what probably cost him that T20WC spot in UAE in place of Mitchell.
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@bovidae said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
A timely opinion piece by Geenty on CdG today. He's not wrong and agrees with others in this thread.
This part, although Geenty is not entirely correct IMO on CdG role, is why I think he is now superfulous to the test XI, despite being an excelent cog for the last 5 years.
Six weeks later in Colombo, de Grandhomme monstered Sri Lanka’s bowlers for 83 off 77 balls, alongside a BJ Watling century setting up a series-levelling test victory which helped secure their spot in the World Test Championship final against India. As recently as that match in June, de Grandhomme was the preferred allrounder in an all-pace attack, and went wicketless in his usual holding role after being sidelined by ankle surgery.
He has two wickets in his last four tests – three of those wins over India – and with the Black Caps employing a four-pronged pace attack who can all swing the ball in the right conditions he becomes less of a factor. A batsman at No 6 or No 7 who can bowl effective spin – of the ilk of Glenn Phillips or Rachin Ravindra – looks the way forward, particularly away from home.
CdG, pre-Kyle Jamieson had 2 roles with the ball. Not just "his usual holding role".
NZ used him as 3rd seamer, ahead of Wagner as a specialist 4th seamer (which was a unique position I'd suggest never before used in world cricket).
CdG would bowl first change with a newish ball, he is a wicket taking threat with his swing and wobble seam. Then he would do the donkey work later when the ball was old, doing the "usual holding role".
CdG role was dove-tailed in with the way we used Neil Wagner.
But anyway. Since Jamieson has come along. CdG, if he played, is effectively changed to the 5th seamer, purely doing a holding role with the ball. No longer bowling those spells with the newish ball.
Look at the stats of the players who have bowled first to third change since Jamieson came into the team. Everyone apart from Wagner has become superfulous. This is why I think CdG should no longer be in the team and his spot should be taken by someone doing a totally different role. E.g. more focus on their batting prowess, or a spinning allrounder. Not because he was a weak link.
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@rapido It will be extremely handy if Ravindra can be good enough to hold down that 7 test spot as both a batsman and spinner. That would strengthen us from the team that won the WTC.
Jamieson at 8, Southee at 9, Wagner at 10, Boult at 11 is pretty much everyone at their level of competence and no absolute rabbits.
Nicholls and Young are going to need to step up to cover Rossco pretty shortly. We'll hopefully get at least two more years from Wags.
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@chris-b said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
@rapido It will be extremely handy if Ravindra can be good enough to hold down that 7 test spot as both a batsman and spinner. That would strengthen us from the team that won the WTC.
Yes, but I would bat him in the top 6 and have Blundell at 7. The message should be 100% clear to him, the media, fans that he is selected primarily as a batsman, not as a specialist spinner. Because that is a thankless task on modern NZ wickets that no youngster executing his secondary skill should feel too much pressure heaped on him for.
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I think Ravindra might be a chance for the Indian test tour in November, if he goes OK in Pakistan ODIs. He might get some Plunket Shield before then, but early season wickets ....
At this stage I'm not sure how they will balance the team for that tour. A functioning CdG would have been extremely handy to a balanced team, but I think we can put a line through that, plus his batting v spin probably reduced the true value his 'on paper' batting balance anyway.
IMO. The best NZ attack for that tour would be 2 seamers plus the 2 spinners (Patel and Sommerville) plus the allrounder CDG.
That's now a no-no.
What are the alternatives?
- Mitchell straight swap for CdG
- Ravindra for CdG, and retain an extra one of the 4 seamers (play 3), don't play Sommerville.
- Play an extra specialist batsman at 6 (Young) and make do with 4 bowlers plus Kane.
I think Ravindra is the real deal, but that would be one hell of an introduction.
I'd be OK with any of those 3 choices. I'm wondering if I rate Sommerville more highly than the selectors.
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@nzzp said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
Jesus, Finn Allen just stepped inside a good length ball and smoked it for 6. Where has this hitting been all series?
NZ 54/0 after 5.2, and 100 is surely on now
Well Allen has been batting like that in the three games he has played. But he got out cheaply in the last two, he is very much like McCullum in that he'll either come off big or get out for not much.
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@labcat since the beginning of the year he’s come off a lot more than he hasn’t though. A massive talent for such a young player.
I think we’ve missed a trick not picking him in the WC squad.
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@donsteppa said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
Time for CdG to have a big innings.
that's a good start! Here for a good time, not a long time
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Lol Nasum has gotten CdG out 4 times for 0 runs. Talk about making someone your bitch.
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@donsteppa said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
Time for CdG to have a big innings.
Time for CDG to be put out to pasture, I suspect playing with ten players is better value. I could care less that he once was a "cog", He hasn't been for a while and now is as someone said earlier the new foodbill. arghh... sorry drunk grumpy old man comment
