Openside flankers
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This has been a good read, I enjoyed it.
I have long believed the unluckiest players alive are the fellas who emerged between Michael Jones¹ and Sir Richie! I watched both Marty Holah and Josh Kronfeld around about that time and they were seriously good. There was also Zinzan, who was exceptional - an exciting runner, and Taine Randell. I liked his play (best as a No 8 ) but he was way too young when Hart made him captain and I say that mucked up a potentially fine career.
The stars aligned to ensure these contenders would enjoy short careers!
¹ Jones - the finest rugby player I have seen I reckon, and an outstanding man with it.
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Update
1 - Dalton Papali’i
2 - Ardie Savea
3 - Ethan Blackadder
4 - Sam Cane
5 - Matt Todd
6 - Tanerau Latimer
7 - Scott Waldrom
8 - Adam Thomson
9 - Chris Masoe
10 - Rodney So’oialo
11 - Daniel Braid
12 - Sam Harding
13 - Richie McCaw
14 - Marty Holah
15 - Scott Robertson
16 - Mark Carter
17 - Andrew Blowers
18 - Taine Randell
19 - Josh Kronfeld
20 - Liam Barry
21 - Kupu Vanisi
22 - Zinzan Brooke
23 - Paul Henderson
24 -
25 - Kevin Schuler
26 - Michael Jones
27 -
28 - Mark Brooke-Crowden
29 -
30 - Mike Brewer@act-crusader said in Openside flankers:
Update
1 - Dalton Papali’i
2 - Ardie Savea
3 - Ethan Blackadder
4 - Sam Cane
5 - Matt Todd
6 - Tanerau Latimer
7 - Scott Waldrom
8 - Adam Thomson
9 - Chris Masoe
10 - Rodney So’oialo
11 - Daniel Braid
12 - Sam Harding
13 - Richie McCaw
14 - Marty Holah
15 - Scott Robertson
16 - Mark Carter
17 - Andrew Blowers
18 - Taine Randell
19 - Josh Kronfeld
20 - Liam Barry
21 - Kupu Vanisi
22 - Zinzan Brooke
23 - Paul Henderson
24 -
25 - Kevin Schuler
26 - Michael Jones
27 -
28 - Mark Brooke-Crowden
29 -
30 - Mike BrewerFuck, that list has some really fucking good players who we might hardly even remember to mention as ABs.
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@act-crusader Is there a 27? IIRC 1986 was Brooke-Cowden and Hobbs before Jones made his debut in 1987.
@bovidae said in Openside flankers:
@act-crusader Is there a 27? IIRC 1986 was Brooke-Cowden and Hobbs before Jones made his debut in 1987.
27 only started one test at 7 but I believe also played a couple of non-tests at 7
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Its not someone in one of those gaps like that NZ sevens player Dallas Seymour is it?
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Its not someone in one of those gaps like that NZ sevens player Dallas Seymour is it?
@bayimports said in Openside flankers:
Its not someone in one of those gaps like that NZ sevens player Dallas Seymour is it?
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ha ha I wonder if the last one was a loose forward not normally a number 7, im stumped now..used my last obscure reference above
@bayimports said in Openside flankers:
ha ha I wonder if the last one was a loose forward not normally a number 7, im stumped now..used my last obscure reference above
To add to the earlier clue, he played 20 tests.
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@chris-b said in Openside flankers:
Thinking about the depth we've presently got at openside flanker makes me wonder quite why it is that we've almost always had gun opensides?
I'm not sure quite when we shifted from using left and right flankers to using blind and open sides - it was after Waka Nathan and Kel Tremain, but even that pair were starting to be pretty complementary and by all accounts Nathan was a gun as a prototypical openside.
First really genuine openside might have been Ken Stewart? And since then we've had a nearly unbroken chain of Kevin Eveleigh, Graham Mourie, Jock Hobbs, Michael Jones, Josh Kronfeld, Richie McCaw and Sam Cane.
A few little lulls along the way, but also periods where we've had several excellent options - Frank Shelford, Ginge Henderson, Marty Holah and now Ardie Savea and Dalton Papali'i.
I don't think we've got another position where we've been so strong, so consistently.
yeah, it's NZ rugby's signature position. There has been an embarrassment of riches at times
Look at who was running around in say 2005 and couldn't get near a test gig.
It's a glamour spot in NZ, so athletes want to play there. And our national style compliments the position beautifully for creating hard bastards who are not only good on the ground, but hard defenders and good link players.
@mariner4life said in Openside flankers:
@chris-b said in Openside flankers:
Thinking about the depth we've presently got at openside flanker makes me wonder quite why it is that we've almost always had gun opensides?
I'm not sure quite when we shifted from using left and right flankers to using blind and open sides - it was after Waka Nathan and Kel Tremain, but even that pair were starting to be pretty complementary and by all accounts Nathan was a gun as a prototypical openside.
First really genuine openside might have been Ken Stewart? And since then we've had a nearly unbroken chain of Kevin Eveleigh, Graham Mourie, Jock Hobbs, Michael Jones, Josh Kronfeld, Richie McCaw and Sam Cane.
A few little lulls along the way, but also periods where we've had several excellent options - Frank Shelford, Ginge Henderson, Marty Holah and now Ardie Savea and Dalton Papali'i.
I don't think we've got another position where we've been so strong, so consistently.
yeah, it's NZ rugby's signature position. There has been an embarrassment of riches at times
Look at who was running around in say 2005 and couldn't get near a test gig.
It's a glamour spot in NZ, so athletes want to play there. And our national style compliments the position beautifully for creating hard bastards who are not only good on the ground, but hard defenders and good link players.
Yes 7 and probably now 11 are two spots where you would pick a NZer 9 times out of 10 over any other nationality.
It's a good idea for a thread (and one I've thought about starting) - World XV for nationalities. Safe to say you'd probably pick a couple of Saffers to play lock!
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@mariner4life said in Openside flankers:
@chris-b said in Openside flankers:
Thinking about the depth we've presently got at openside flanker makes me wonder quite why it is that we've almost always had gun opensides?
I'm not sure quite when we shifted from using left and right flankers to using blind and open sides - it was after Waka Nathan and Kel Tremain, but even that pair were starting to be pretty complementary and by all accounts Nathan was a gun as a prototypical openside.
First really genuine openside might have been Ken Stewart? And since then we've had a nearly unbroken chain of Kevin Eveleigh, Graham Mourie, Jock Hobbs, Michael Jones, Josh Kronfeld, Richie McCaw and Sam Cane.
A few little lulls along the way, but also periods where we've had several excellent options - Frank Shelford, Ginge Henderson, Marty Holah and now Ardie Savea and Dalton Papali'i.
I don't think we've got another position where we've been so strong, so consistently.
yeah, it's NZ rugby's signature position. There has been an embarrassment of riches at times
Look at who was running around in say 2005 and couldn't get near a test gig.
It's a glamour spot in NZ, so athletes want to play there. And our national style compliments the position beautifully for creating hard bastards who are not only good on the ground, but hard defenders and good link players.
Yes 7 and probably now 11 are two spots where you would pick a NZer 9 times out of 10 over any other nationality.
It's a good idea for a thread (and one I've thought about starting) - World XV for nationalities. Safe to say you'd probably pick a couple of Saffers to play lock!
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@frye said in Openside flankers:
Andy Earl
Not Earl.
The likes of Henderson, Jones, Seymour, Brooke-Crowden, Hobbs started at openside during his career
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1 - Dalton Papali’i
2 - Ardie Savea
3 - Ethan Blackadder
4 - Sam Cane
5 - Matt Todd
6 - Tanerau Latimer
7 - Scott Waldrom
8 - Adam Thomson
9 - Chris Masoe
10 - Rodney So’oialo
11 - Daniel Braid
12 - Sam Harding
13 - Richie McCaw
14 - Marty Holah
15 - Scott Robertson
16 - Mark Carter
17 - Andrew Blowers
18 - Taine Randell
19 - Josh Kronfeld
20 - Liam Barry
21 - Kupu Vanisi
22 - Zinzan Brooke
23 - Paul Henderson
24 - Dallas Seymour
25 - Kevin Schuler
26 - Michael Jones
27 - Jamie Joseph
28 - Mark Brooke-Crowden
29 - Jock Hobbs
30 - Mike Brewer -
1 - Dalton Papali’i
2 - Ardie Savea
3 - Ethan Blackadder
4 - Sam Cane
5 - Matt Todd
6 - Tanerau Latimer
7 - Scott Waldrom
8 - Adam Thomson
9 - Chris Masoe
10 - Rodney So’oialo
11 - Daniel Braid
12 - Sam Harding
13 - Richie McCaw
14 - Marty Holah
15 - Scott Robertson
16 - Mark Carter
17 - Andrew Blowers
18 - Taine Randell
19 - Josh Kronfeld
20 - Liam Barry
21 - Kupu Vanisi
22 - Zinzan Brooke
23 - Paul Henderson
24 - Dallas Seymour
25 - Kevin Schuler
26 - Michael Jones
27 - Jamie Joseph
28 - Mark Brooke-Crowden
29 - Jock Hobbs
30 - Mike Brewer@act-crusader said in Openside flankers:
1 - Dalton Papali’i
2 - Ardie Savea
3 - Ethan Blackadder
4 - Sam Cane
5 - Matt Todd
6 - Tanerau Latimer
7 - Scott Waldrom
8 - Adam Thomson
9 - Chris Masoe
10 - Rodney So’oialo
11 - Daniel Braid
12 - Sam Harding
13 - Richie McCaw
14 - Marty Holah
15 - Scott Robertson
16 - Mark Carter
17 - Andrew Blowers
18 - Taine Randell
19 - Josh Kronfeld
20 - Liam Barry
21 - Kupu Vanisi
22 - Zinzan Brooke
23 - Paul Henderson
24 - Dallas Seymour
25 - Kevin Schuler
26 - Michael Jones
27 - Jamie Joseph
28 - Mark Brooke-Crowden
29 - Jock Hobbs
30 - Mike BrewerPretty sure Mark Carter and Kup Vanisi need to be swapped in that list
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@act-crusader said in Openside flankers:
@bovidae said in Openside flankers:
Jamie Joseph
Bingo
After checking it was in THAT game in 1993. Farkin' Mains!
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@act-crusader said in Openside flankers:
1 - Dalton Papali’i
2 - Ardie Savea
3 - Ethan Blackadder
4 - Sam Cane
5 - Matt Todd
6 - Tanerau Latimer
7 - Scott Waldrom
8 - Adam Thomson
9 - Chris Masoe
10 - Rodney So’oialo
11 - Daniel Braid
12 - Sam Harding
13 - Richie McCaw
14 - Marty Holah
15 - Scott Robertson
16 - Mark Carter
17 - Andrew Blowers
18 - Taine Randell
19 - Josh Kronfeld
20 - Liam Barry
21 - Kupu Vanisi
22 - Zinzan Brooke
23 - Paul Henderson
24 - Dallas Seymour
25 - Kevin Schuler
26 - Michael Jones
27 - Jamie Joseph
28 - Mark Brooke-Crowden
29 - Jock Hobbs
30 - Mike BrewerPretty sure Mark Carter and Kup Vanisi need to be swapped in that list
@junior said in Openside flankers:
Pretty sure Mark Carter and Kup Vanisi need to be swapped in that list
Yeah a couple of them are mixed up with last test and first selected.
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Given M4L's comment about 7 being our signature position - which I think nails it - it's quite surprising the number of guys who weren't really 7s who played tests there. Maybe guys like Zinzan started out as 7s - I can't remember now.
From that list - Blackadder, Thomson, Masoe to an extent, Rodney, Razor, Blowers, Taine, Barry, Zinny, Schuler (I think?), Joseph, Brewer.
