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When will this freak show end?
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@antipodean said in Trans in sport / Laurel Hubbard:
When will this freak show end?
When someone gets really hurt, from the look of that bloke above.
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@gt12 said in Trans in sport / Laurel Hubbard:
@antipodean said in Trans in sport / Laurel Hubbard:
When will this freak show end?
When someone gets really hurt, from the look of that bloke above.
Not true unfortunately. Fallon Fox broke the eye socket of a female opponent back in 2014.
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@duluth said in Trans in sport / Laurel Hubbard:
@gt12 said in Trans in sport / Laurel Hubbard:
@antipodean said in Trans in sport / Laurel Hubbard:
When will this freak show end?
When someone gets really hurt, from the look of that bloke above.
Not true unfortunately. Fallon Fox broke the eye socket of a female opponent back in 2014.
I guess it take someone getting killed then?
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@kid-chocolate she?
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New guidelines for transgender participation unveiled by UK sports councils
There is no magic solution that balances the inclusion of trans women in female sport while guaranteeing competitive fairness and safety, new guidelines for sport across the UK conclude
"Trans women retain physique, stamina and strength advantages when competing in female sport, even when they reduce their testosterone levels, new guidelines for transgender participation in national and grassroots sport published by the UK sports councils will say on Thursday.
The long-awaited report argues there is no magic solution which balances the inclusion of trans women in female sport while guaranteeing competitive fairness and safety. And, for the first time, it tells sports across Britain that they will have to choose which to prioritise."
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Per UK Equality Act 2010, transgender folk may legally be excluded from participation in sport "if this is necessary to uphold fair or safe competition, but not otherwise" https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/721725/GRA-Consultation-document.pdf#page=74
In fact it goes back further to the Gender Reform Bill of 2004 when it was discussed extensively. It seems a sensible balance even now imho, and nothing has changed legally.
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My two ( slightly drunken, I’m celebrating ) cents.
In terms of what blokes have over girls physically I think the main one ( and I’m sure there is science to back me up ) is striking ability. Fairly sure the difference between the hardest punching guy vs the hardest punching girl is huge.
This should be taken into account in something as potentially dangerous as this.
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@kid-chocolate said in Trans in sport / Laurel Hubbard:
This is what she looked like before she transitioned.
For real.
As much as I’m 100% on the opposite side of this argument, these two pics do suggest whatever drugs they use do drastically reduce their physicality.
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First of all ... I have more than a few trans/transgender/transexual friends, lovely, smart and certainly different people omg
. Trans discussions online always get emotive and messy but please, most trans people are not activists. Trust me they have bigger problems in their lives.Anyway, a few factual things I saw reading this I feel I should mention -
- International meta-data studies I have seen put "transgender" people at around 0.3-0.5% of the total population so pretty low (it gets messy as some non-binary people are trans, and studies have taken different views on who is "trans" enough)
- I totally agree the percentage suffering significant gender dysphoria is lower ... for me I guess to the degree we're talking medical intervention i.e. cross-sex hormones or more. Some non-binary people suffer similar gender dysphoria too. It's complex.
- In Psychiatric terms gender dysphoria is no longer considered a mental health condition as of DSM-V (2013). It is still considered a medical condition due to the needs by some for physical interventions.
- I'd just like people to ponder on the thought that homosexuality was considered a mental health disorder until DSM-II was updated in the 1973 Seventh Edition. What the gay community suffered for acceptance, the trans community is going through now. 50 years later.
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@majorrage said in Trans in sport / Laurel Hubbard:
@kid-chocolate said in Trans in sport / Laurel Hubbard:
This is what she looked like before she transitioned.
For real.
As much as I’m 100% on the opposite side of this argument, these two pics do suggest whatever drugs they use do drastically reduce their physicality.
A typical transition for a MTF trans woman will involve high dose of estrogen plus what's called a T-Blocker (testosterone blocker). Androcur or spironolactone typically. Essentially the goal is to achieve stable female hormonal levels.
That process is normally for at least 3-4 years with an endocrinologist monitoring the hormone levels every 6 months, a lot more often at first. Lots of blood tests.
At this point, an orchiectomy can be considered which removes the need for a T-Blocker as ... you won't be making more testosterone for sure. Plus estrogen can be greatly reduced when the body is not fighting testosterone.
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@l_n_p re the last point, is it really?
I have zero issues with trans ppl. Zero. I have issues with the activists as I don’t believe:
- It should be free reign on men in woman’s toilets - because I think that’s open to be abused by genuinely sick, not trans, people.
- I don’t think trans men should participate in woman’s sports.
That’s nothing like what gay people went through. Nothing.
I literally know nobody who holds a diff point of view. And I’ll fight to the death that I’m not transphobic because of these views.
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@majorrage said in Trans in sport / Laurel Hubbard:
@kid-chocolate said in Trans in sport / Laurel Hubbard:
This is what she looked like before she transitioned.
For real.
As much as I’m 100% on the opposite side of this argument, these two pics do suggest whatever drugs they use do drastically reduce their physicality.
By that rational most modern day rugby players are on drugs because once they (rugby players) retire from first class sport they ‘deflate’ considerably
Not dissimilar to the before and after shots above
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@majorrage said in Trans in sport / Laurel Hubbard:
@l_n_p re the last point, is it really?
I have zero issues with trans ppl. Zero. I have issues with the activists as I don’t believe:
- It should be free reign on men in woman’s toilets - because I think that’s open to be abused by genuinely sick, not trans, people.
- I don’t think trans men should participate in woman’s sports.
That’s nothing like what gay people went through. Nothing.
I literally know nobody who holds a diff point of view. And I’ll fight to the death that I’m not transphobic because of these views.
Peace, I'd lose a fight to the death for sure
and I never called you transphobic did I?Although I'd use the term trans female for a number of reasons, I agree with you on both issues, or at least see them as very complex indeed ... no easy short-term resolutions. But again you raised them not me.
I guess my parallels on gay people is about the mental health stigmatization and how long it took for wider acceptance in society. Trans people are not new, the numbers prepared to come "out" until recently has been tiny though ...
Honestly toilets and access to sport are not the biggest issues for 98% of trans people who are not activists imho. Just the media whips them up to be.
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@majorrage said in Trans in sport / Laurel Hubbard:
@kid-chocolate said in Trans in sport / Laurel Hubbard:
This is what she looked like before she transitioned.
For real.
As much as I’m 100% on the opposite side of this argument, these two pics do suggest whatever drugs they use do drastically reduce their physicality.
Yes. He's got bigger tits in the first photo.
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@l_n_p said in Trans in sport / Laurel Hubbard:
Peace, I'd lose a fight to the death for sure
and I never called you transphobic did I?No, and thats not what I'm saying - sorry if the bluntness of my posting suggested you did! It's well known that activists would call me transphobic because I hold those views.
Although I'd use the term trans female for a number of reasons, I agree with you on both issues, or at least see them as very complex indeed ... no easy short-term resolutions. But again you raised them not me.
Yeah, I did as those are certainly the most "anti trans" things I read about, where as I don't view them as that (and honestly, I think most trans people don't either). Thus, I disagree wth the parallel of gay people 50 years ago ...
I guess my parallels on gay people is about the mental health stigmatization and how long it took for wider acceptance in society. Trans people are not new, the numbers prepared to come "out" until recently has been tiny though ...
This is what I disagree with. I actually think that if trans activists got on with life and the eternally woke stopped trying to dictate utterly ridiculous terminology then everything would be much better. When you have continual things , and how much Rosie Duffield's comments were talked about the Labour Party conference, it's detrimental to the argument in my view. I mean look at this exchange
- STarmer on Marr - "Only woman have a cervix should not be said"
- Javed on Starmer - "Total denial of scientific facts ... and he wants to run the NHS"
- Freddy McConnel (activist transman who had a kid) - "I have a cervix, I am a man. Mr Javid, tell me otherwise to my face. I dare you".
Where do most trans people sit on this? Are they with Starmer? Or Javid? Or McConnel? Or do they wish this shit was out of the presss?
Honestly toilets and access to sport are not the biggest issues for 98% of trans people who are not activists imho. Just the media whips them up to be.
I actually don't think the media care that much about it. I think activists do their best to keep it in the media.
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@l_n_p said in Trans in sport / Laurel Hubbard:
In Psychiatric terms gender dysphoria is no longer considered a mental health condition as of DSM-V (2013).
I'm always bemused by this claim. Not a mental health condition. Appears in the bible for mental health conditions.
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Trans issues have absolutely nothing to do with homosexuality, and the fact they are all lumped together under one umbrella term does nothing to help gay people. To the point that new 'LGB' alliances are being set up as they want to distance themselves from some of the insanity of the trans activists.
I also don't see how gender dysphoria is not a mental illness, given the extremely high suicide rates of people affected as they cannot reconcile being in the wrong body. If that's not a mental illness then nothing is.
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Also, all of the nonsense @MajorRage is referring to in the Labour party about whether a man has a cervix is just the height of absurdity.
Biological sex across most of the animal kingdom, including humans, is determined based on the type of gamete each sex produces. Females produce large gametes (eggs), males produce small gametes (sperm). There is no third, fourth or fifth gamete that gets produced, it's eggs or sperm. 2 sexes, end of story.
Everything the trans activists talk about are secondary sex characteristics which vary among individuals; some are more prevalent in females and others are more prevalent in males. These also change dramatically when you go down the path of hormone treatments etc. None of them determine your sex.
A trans female is not a female because they are not the sex that produces large gametes. They are a trans female, the qualifier is important. Same as with a trans male.
None of this is particularly complicated. It feels like everyone is being gaslit into thinking it is more complicated than it is. I just shake my head at the public discourse around this, people have lost their fucking minds.
Transgender debate, in sport, in general
