The All Black's current midfield balance.
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As another poster pointed out, the Havili/ALB midfield partnership really lacks a ball carrier. It's not a complementary midfield pairing at all.
The issue with ALB and Havili is they're both lateral runners with finding & creating their space. You add DMac to that combination and good luck to the loose forwards.
We really could do with a physical 12. I believe Thomas Umaga-Jenson (107kg) from the Highlanders could eventually become world-class in this role for the All Blacks.
PeterThomas was instrumental when the Highlanders ambushed Crusaders 33-12 earlier this year, he's just got a knack for constantly getting injured, and he was just about to breakout at Super level..We are sorely missing the directness of guys like Goodhue/Reiko at 13. Nonu/SBW at 12.
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I still don't fully understand the sidelining of Laumape. He's exactly what we've often required.
There's creativity across the board, get a bruiser, with a fine playmaking touch, in.
It's a shame as Ngani had actually developed an exceptionally well-rounded game by 2018/19. The one-dimensional jibes were based off misconceptions because he was always a big bruising ball-runner type. But his game was far more multi-skilled and dynamic than he was credited for, he developed great playmaking ability, an excellent grubber & pinpoint offloading accuracy, and always ran really intelligent support lines on attack, a guy who finished off a shit-load of tries for Hurricanes.
Twice tonight ALB received passes where breakings the tackle of struggling cover defenders would have resulted in tries and both times he was not only tackled but completely shut down.
ALB hasn't been at his best since those 2019 Chiefs & All Black's campaigns it appears.
He was comfortably the form NZ midfielder that year, Laumape/Crotty were good also.
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Another straight runner is Peter Umaga Jensen. In his short spell with the ABs he didn't look out of place
@canefan, I also forgot to mention Tupaea.
Really solid straight-running option (in contrast to a Havili or ALB) playing outside or inside of him at 12/13.
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@canefan, I also forgot to mention Tupaea.
Really solid straight-running option (in contrast to a Havili or ALB) playing outside or inside of him at 12/13.
@kiwi_expat Yeah tupaea shows promise and I think he should be our 12 going forward
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I still don't fully understand the sidelining of Laumape. He's exactly what we've often required.
There's creativity across the board, get a bruiser, with a fine playmaking touch, in.
It's a shame as Ngani had actually developed an exceptionally well-rounded game by 2018/19. The one-dimensional jibes were based off misconceptions because he was always a big bruising ball-runner type. But his game was far more multi-skilled and dynamic than he was credited for, he developed great playmaking ability, an excellent grubber & pinpoint offloading accuracy, and always ran really intelligent support lines on attack, a guy who finished off a shit-load of tries for Hurricanes.
Twice tonight ALB received passes where breakings the tackle of struggling cover defenders would have resulted in tries and both times he was not only tackled but completely shut down.
ALB hasn't been at his best since those 2019 Chiefs & All Black's campaigns it appears.
He was comfortably the form NZ midfielder that year, Laumape/Crotty were good also.
@kiwi_expat said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
It's a shame as Ngani had actually developed an exceptionally well-rounded game by 2018/19. The one-dimensional jibes were based off misconceptions because he was always a big bruising ball-runner type.
He just isn't big by international standards. He got/would get swallowed by other test midfields and backrows. And for all the talk of being multi-dimensional I just don't think he would have been the next Nonu in reality. If he was gonna make it he would have hung around.
I think one of the Umaga-Jensen brothers might be the answer. Or Leicester Fainganuku. Hopefully they can stay fit and get the opportunity.
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@kiwi_expat said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
It's a shame as Ngani had actually developed an exceptionally well-rounded game by 2018/19. The one-dimensional jibes were based off misconceptions because he was always a big bruising ball-runner type.
He just isn't big by international standards. He got/would get swallowed by other test midfields and backrows. And for all the talk of being multi-dimensional I just don't think he would have been the next Nonu in reality. If he was gonna make it he would have hung around.
I think one of the Umaga-Jensen brothers might be the answer. Or Leicester Fainganuku. Hopefully they can stay fit and get the opportunity.
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I was happy with havili/ALB but that's been exposed. Maybe different tactics, it was a definite tactic for havili to crash ball. But this coach team has seen DMac do it this season, too. So I'm not sure if it's using some common sense versus new pairing required. Ioane is the obvious big body to use, long term there will always be other good wingers.
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@frye I agree. So we need to see them play there and that seems to be the problem because our backs a cycled round in every position and it makes it difficult for them to develop. Seems that New Zealand rugby hasn’t learned from Toeava and others.
@broughie said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
@frye I agree. So we need to see them play there and that seems to be the problem because our backs a cycled round in every position and it makes it difficult for them to develop. Seems that New Zealand rugby hasn’t learned from Toeava and others.
Jordie bring our best player by miles in crunch tests cos he's finally playing in position, your think the coaches would get the message. But as I've stated, I've no confidence in this coaching team
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@broughie said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
@frye I agree. So we need to see them play there and that seems to be the problem because our backs a cycled round in every position and it makes it difficult for them to develop. Seems that New Zealand rugby hasn’t learned from Toeava and others.
Jordie bring our best player by miles in crunch tests cos he's finally playing in position, your think the coaches would get the message. But as I've stated, I've no confidence in this coaching team
@machpants said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
@broughie said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
@frye I agree. So we need to see them play there and that seems to be the problem because our backs a cycled round in every position and it makes it difficult for them to develop. Seems that New Zealand rugby hasn’t learned from Toeava and others.
Jordie bring our best player by miles in crunch tests cos he's finally playing in position, your think the coaches would get the message. But as I've stated, I've no confidence in this coaching team
come to think of it.. Jordie and Reiko are the only 2 players in our current backline that offer any semblance of directness on attack, a stark contrast to All Black teams of previous decades. What happened to our hole punching straight-line runners? Foster is seemingly addicted to fielding a 7's rugby backline full of sideways/backwards runners ala McKenzie, ALB, Havili, etc..
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@machpants said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
@broughie said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
@frye I agree. So we need to see them play there and that seems to be the problem because our backs a cycled round in every position and it makes it difficult for them to develop. Seems that New Zealand rugby hasn’t learned from Toeava and others.
Jordie bring our best player by miles in crunch tests cos he's finally playing in position, your think the coaches would get the message. But as I've stated, I've no confidence in this coaching team
come to think of it.. Jordie and Reiko are the only 2 players in our current backline that offer any semblance of directness on attack, a stark contrast to All Black teams of previous decades. What happened to our hole punching straight-line runners? Foster is seemingly addicted to fielding a 7's rugby backline full of sideways/backwards runners ala McKenzie, ALB, Havili, etc..
@kiwi_expat that’s why a banged the drum for Jordie for my whole adult life. Strong direct and a breath of fresh air to McKenzie, BB or RM. how did Foster stumble on that one.
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@kiwi_expat that’s why a banged the drum for Jordie for my whole adult life. Strong direct and a breath of fresh air to McKenzie, BB or RM. how did Foster stumble on that one.
@broughie said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
@kiwi_expat that’s why a banged the drum for Jordie for my whole adult life. Strong direct and a breath of fresh air to McKenzie, BB or RM. how did Foster stumble on that one.
Indeed. His break through the middle of the field earlier in the 1st half showed the benefits of having a more direct strong man going through the interior of defenses as opposed to trying & running around to the edges. I still maintain Jordie would make a fine 12, didn't he shift there when McKenzie came on? Havili has done admirably, but he doesn't seem like a long-term option at 12, especially against more physical sides like SA/England. Both Dave and ALB are more jinky, sideways runners on attack, and we need to find a more healthy balance and a little bit more variety in that space.
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@kiwi_expat that’s why a banged the drum for Jordie for my whole adult life. Strong direct and a breath of fresh air to McKenzie, BB or RM. how did Foster stumble on that one.
@broughie said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
@kiwi_expat that’s why a banged the drum for Jordie for my whole adult life. Strong direct and a breath of fresh air to McKenzie, BB or RM. how did Foster stumble on that one.
I think he got desperate and read the Fern.
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@mn5 said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
What’s George Moala up to ?
Developing a really decent reputation for himself at Clermont.
But, I don't think he'd be the answer for us, seemed a bit one-dimensional, kind of lacking the vision & game IQ required to really excel at the international level.
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This post is deleted!
@kiwi_expat what about at 13? I don't remember George much at 12, wasn't he wing then centre in NZ? I actually liked him as a player before he left but yeah I don't know what his distribution skills are like.
The thing for me, is, Havili seems to have some nice passing skills, why doesn't he use them? Doesn't seem ideal to play crash at 12 esp against bigger men. -
@kiwi_expat what about at 13? I don't remember George much at 12, wasn't he wing then centre in NZ? I actually liked him as a player before he left but yeah I don't know what his distribution skills are like.
The thing for me, is, Havili seems to have some nice passing skills, why doesn't he use them? Doesn't seem ideal to play crash at 12 esp against bigger men.This post is deleted! -
@kiwi_expat what about at 13? I don't remember George much at 12, wasn't he wing then centre in NZ? I actually liked him as a player before he left but yeah I don't know what his distribution skills are like.
The thing for me, is, Havili seems to have some nice passing skills, why doesn't he use them? Doesn't seem ideal to play crash at 12 esp against bigger men.@nostrildamus said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
@kiwi_expat what about at 13? I don't remember George much at 12, wasn't he wing then centre in NZ? I actually liked him as a player before he left but yeah I don't know what his distribution skills are like.
The thing for me, is, Havili seems to have some nice passing skills, why doesn't he use them? Doesn't seem ideal to play crash at 12 esp against bigger men.From what I recall, Moala's distribution game wasn't at an appropriate level for international footy.
Charlie Ngatai, now there's an underrated midfielder who got away from us.. arguably left at his peak as well.
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@nostrildamus said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
@kiwi_expat what about at 13? I don't remember George much at 12, wasn't he wing then centre in NZ? I actually liked him as a player before he left but yeah I don't know what his distribution skills are like.
The thing for me, is, Havili seems to have some nice passing skills, why doesn't he use them? Doesn't seem ideal to play crash at 12 esp against bigger men.From what I recall, Moala's distribution game wasn't at an appropriate level for international footy.
Charlie Ngatai, now there's an underrated midfielder who got away from us.. arguably left at his peak as well.
@kiwi_expat said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
@nostrildamus said in The All Black's current midfield balance.:
@kiwi_expat what about at 13? I don't remember George much at 12, wasn't he wing then centre in NZ? I actually liked him as a player before he left but yeah I don't know what his distribution skills are like.
The thing for me, is, Havili seems to have some nice passing skills, why doesn't he use them? Doesn't seem ideal to play crash at 12 esp against bigger men.From what I recall, Moala's distribution game wasn't at an appropriate level for international footy.
Charlie Ngatai, now there's an underrated midfielder who got away from us.. arguably left at his peak as well.
I agree! But he had a bad injury run...
