All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour
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@mariner4life Yeah - but Sam Cane is pretty freaky himself. He's not a massive downgrade on Richie.
He started the tour saying he needed to get up to speed and wasn't ready, but I'm not sure we should jump on that as something he's saying now.
I reckon he's our No. 1 openside and available for selection. I reckon Foster will be looking at him very hard .
Blackadder, Cane, Savea (Ioane).
I'm talking myself into it!
@chris-b said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life Yeah - but Sam Cane is pretty freaky himself. He's not a massive downgrade on Richie.
He started the tour saying he needed to get up to speed and wasn't ready, but I'm not sure we should jump on that as something he's saying now.
I reckon he's our No. 1 openside and available for selection. I reckon Foster will be looking at him very hard .
Blackadder, Cane, Savea (Ioane).
I'm talking myself into it!
there was some breakdown work at the end of the game where i thought "oh yeah, he's starting to sort his timing now"
I would pick him, because at his best he's better than every other option.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris-b said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
they used to bring McCaw straight back into the starting XV after an injury break. I can remember Hansen saying "Rich can handle it.
Richie was a fucking freak though, who would come back in and dominate straight away. The bloke basically never showed signs of "rust" it was all Richie, all the time
what a fucking player. GOAT
Yep, plus did Richie ever come back after a 6-7 month lay off into test rugby, I don't remember it ever happening.
@dan54 said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris-b said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
they used to bring McCaw straight back into the starting XV after an injury break. I can remember Hansen saying "Rich can handle it.
Richie was a fucking freak though, who would come back in and dominate straight away. The bloke basically never showed signs of "rust" it was all Richie, all the time
what a fucking player. GOAT
Yep, plus did Richie ever come back after a 6-7 month lay off into test rugby, I don't remember it ever happening.
Probably not.
But, the usual route back from injury for most top tier people is 1 game on the bench then into the starting XV. Which Sam's already done via Italy.
I'm not 100% convinced they'll pick him, but surely he's in the frame?
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@duluth On the 1976 tour of South Africa the All Backs were something like 18 points behind deep into the second half (4 point tries) yet came back to win with two tries in injury time.
Nothing by modern standards but in those days it was considered outlandish and the comeback of all time
This is all I can find on it
https://www.rugby-talk.com/2011/01/1976-all-black-tour-15th-match/
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@mariner4life Yeah - but Sam Cane is pretty freaky himself. He's not a massive downgrade on Richie.
He started the tour saying he needed to get up to speed and wasn't ready, but I'm not sure we should jump on that as something he's saying now.
I reckon he's our No. 1 openside and available for selection. I reckon Foster will be looking at him very hard .
Blackadder, Cane, Savea (Ioane).
I'm talking myself into it!
@chris-b said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
I reckon he's our No. 1 openside and available for selection. I reckon Foster will be looking at him very hard .
Clearly our best defensive openside. When fit, a damn near lock for me - but if you pick him, you're picking other ball runners.
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@dan54 said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris-b said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
they used to bring McCaw straight back into the starting XV after an injury break. I can remember Hansen saying "Rich can handle it.
Richie was a fucking freak though, who would come back in and dominate straight away. The bloke basically never showed signs of "rust" it was all Richie, all the time
what a fucking player. GOAT
Yep, plus did Richie ever come back after a 6-7 month lay off into test rugby, I don't remember it ever happening.
Probably not.
But, the usual route back from injury for most top tier people is 1 game on the bench then into the starting XV. Which Sam's already done via Italy.
I'm not 100% convinced they'll pick him, but surely he's in the frame?
@chris-b said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@dan54 said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris-b said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
they used to bring McCaw straight back into the starting XV after an injury break. I can remember Hansen saying "Rich can handle it.
Richie was a fucking freak though, who would come back in and dominate straight away. The bloke basically never showed signs of "rust" it was all Richie, all the time
what a fucking player. GOAT
Yep, plus did Richie ever come back after a 6-7 month lay off into test rugby, I don't remember it ever happening.
Probably not.
But, the usual route back from injury for most top tier people is 1 game on the bench then into the starting XV. Which Sam's already done via Italy.
I'm not 100% convinced they'll pick him, but surely he's in the frame?
Personally doubt it. reckon they will not change much from Welsh test. And I rate him highly, he our best 7, but I still think they will take cautious approach
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Cane no way.
Aaron Smith on the other hand…
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@dan54 said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris-b said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
they used to bring McCaw straight back into the starting XV after an injury break. I can remember Hansen saying "Rich can handle it.
Richie was a fucking freak though, who would come back in and dominate straight away. The bloke basically never showed signs of "rust" it was all Richie, all the time
what a fucking player. GOAT
Yep, plus did Richie ever come back after a 6-7 month lay off into test rugby, I don't remember it ever happening.
Probably not.
But, the usual route back from injury for most top tier people is 1 game on the bench then into the starting XV. Which Sam's already done via Italy.
I'm not 100% convinced they'll pick him, but surely he's in the frame?
@chris-b said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@dan54 said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris-b said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
they used to bring McCaw straight back into the starting XV after an injury break. I can remember Hansen saying "Rich can handle it.
Richie was a fucking freak though, who would come back in and dominate straight away. The bloke basically never showed signs of "rust" it was all Richie, all the time
what a fucking player. GOAT
Yep, plus did Richie ever come back after a 6-7 month lay off into test rugby, I don't remember it ever happening.
Probably not.
But, the usual route back from injury for most top tier people is 1 game on the bench then into the starting XV. Which Sam's already done via Italy.
I'm not 100% convinced they'll pick him, but surely he's in the frame?
Even with a 6:2 split I still don't think he could possibly be up to the speed of Test rugby, especially if his hit outs are club rugby and Italy.
Aaron is a different kettle of fish. His absence hasn't been injury. And he's clearly still our best option. The requirement for him to play is also elevated by the untimely knock suffered by Webber.
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@chris-b said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@dan54 said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris-b said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
they used to bring McCaw straight back into the starting XV after an injury break. I can remember Hansen saying "Rich can handle it.
Richie was a fucking freak though, who would come back in and dominate straight away. The bloke basically never showed signs of "rust" it was all Richie, all the time
what a fucking player. GOAT
Yep, plus did Richie ever come back after a 6-7 month lay off into test rugby, I don't remember it ever happening.
Probably not.
But, the usual route back from injury for most top tier people is 1 game on the bench then into the starting XV. Which Sam's already done via Italy.
I'm not 100% convinced they'll pick him, but surely he's in the frame?
Even with a 6:2 split I still don't think he could possibly be up to the speed of Test rugby, especially if his hit outs are club rugby and Italy.
Aaron is a different kettle of fish. His absence hasn't been injury. And he's clearly still our best option. The requirement for him to play is also elevated by the untimely knock suffered by Webber.
@antipodean Cane's had 100 minutes of (Tier 2) test rugby. That's been sufficient for plenty of people in the past.
It's not a requirement that he play, because we have other good options.
But, it won't surprise me if he plays - and it's probably more balanced for him to start than to be on the bench.
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You'd assume they had already discussed with Smith the possibility of a late call up, meaning he would have kept himself in shape, so it will be how he is when he arrives...my guess is they may start with TJ and bring AS on to (hopefully) close it out.
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@antipodean Cane's had 100 minutes of (Tier 2) test rugby. That's been sufficient for plenty of people in the past.
It's not a requirement that he play, because we have other good options.
But, it won't surprise me if he plays - and it's probably more balanced for him to start than to be on the bench.
@chris-b said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@antipodean Cane's had 100 minutes of (Tier 2) test rugby. That's been sufficient for plenty of people in the past.
From memory they'd played a little more lower level rugby beforehand.
It's not a requirement that he play, because we have other good options.
Agreed. Fit I'd still pick Cane but I'm not as concerned given the depth in loose forwards on tour. The concern I actually have is balance.
But, it won't surprise me if he plays - and it's probably more balanced for him to start than to be on the bench.
I'd guess his greatest impediment would be body clock.
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@chris-b said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@antipodean Cane's had 100 minutes of (Tier 2) test rugby. That's been sufficient for plenty of people in the past.
From memory they'd played a little more lower level rugby beforehand.
It's not a requirement that he play, because we have other good options.
Agreed. Fit I'd still pick Cane but I'm not as concerned given the depth in loose forwards on tour. The concern I actually have is balance.
But, it won't surprise me if he plays - and it's probably more balanced for him to start than to be on the bench.
I'd guess his greatest impediment would be body clock.
@antipodean I guess it depends on how much they fall off with a long break.
Kieran Read got hastened back in the 2011 RWC - but, he'd probably only been out a couple of months and he was a pretty crucial cog. Mostly, though - you see the big players come back off the bench one week, and the next week they start - tests and Super rugby.
I hadn't really thought too much about Sam, till today. But, I wonder whether he would have made the effort to tour if he was only planning to play the little games.
We'll see on Thursday, I guess - but, I reckon he'll at least be in the frame.
Edit: Google throws up this which I think is realistic...
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I managed to catch the IRE JPN match yesterday. I know Japan's not exactly Tier 1 but Ireland looked like they will be hard to put away. Their halfback is better than anybody we are going to field and their front row looks really well drilled. We will need to be on song.
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@antipodean Cane's had 100 minutes of (Tier 2) test rugby. That's been sufficient for plenty of people in the past.
It's not a requirement that he play, because we have other good options.
But, it won't surprise me if he plays - and it's probably more balanced for him to start than to be on the bench.
@chris-b said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@antipodean Cane's had 100 minutes of (Tier 2) test rugby. That's been sufficient for plenty of people in the past.
It's not a requirement that he play, because we have other good options.
But, it won't surprise me if he plays - and it's probably more balanced for him to start than to be on the bench.
The elephant in the room is that he was underwhelming vs Italy…
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@chris-b said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@antipodean Cane's had 100 minutes of (Tier 2) test rugby. That's been sufficient for plenty of people in the past.
It's not a requirement that he play, because we have other good options.
But, it won't surprise me if he plays - and it's probably more balanced for him to start than to be on the bench.
The elephant in the room is that he was underwhelming vs Italy…
@billy-tell said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris-b said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@antipodean Cane's had 100 minutes of (Tier 2) test rugby. That's been sufficient for plenty of people in the past.
It's not a requirement that he play, because we have other good options.
But, it won't surprise me if he plays - and it's probably more balanced for him to start than to be on the bench.
The elephant in the room is that he was underwhelming vs Italy…
If you refer to Cane
wasn't he more underoverwhelming than underwhelming?
Got better during the match. -
@billy-tell said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris-b said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@antipodean Cane's had 100 minutes of (Tier 2) test rugby. That's been sufficient for plenty of people in the past.
It's not a requirement that he play, because we have other good options.
But, it won't surprise me if he plays - and it's probably more balanced for him to start than to be on the bench.
The elephant in the room is that he was underwhelming vs Italy…
If you refer to Cane
wasn't he more underoverwhelming than underwhelming?
Got better during the match.@nostrildamus But even at the end of the game you’d be hard-pressed to argue he looked like a world class openside surely…
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@nostrildamus But even at the end of the game you’d be hard-pressed to argue he looked like a world class openside surely…
@jc said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@nostrildamus But even at the end of the game you’d be hard-pressed to argue he looked like a world class openside surely…
At the end of that game I'd be hardpressed to find a wordclass .... player on the field, in any AB position, or official holding a whistle or a flag..
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@nostrildamus But even at the end of the game you’d be hard-pressed to argue he looked like a world class openside surely…
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Foster and co won't be putting Cane out there to fail so I would think he'd need to show them during training this week if he is to be selected. Remember back to 2019 when BBBR looked undercooked at the RWC after his injury layoff. The coaches can afford to be more cautious here.
