All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour
-
I haven't read the thread but for me it wasn't our forwards that are putting us in these spots it is the lack of brains in the backs.
I think that if BB and ALB had stayed on the field we would have had a shot at scraping a win but RM, Havili, RI just don't have any smarts firstly with the rush defence and secondly with making good decisions. You don't expect smarts on the wing and our wingers today delivered on that expectation. They looked like possums in the headlights at times. JB was about the only back that looked at home but he adds little in directing play.
Ireland played extremely well so I don't want to take any credit from them but considering how well they played and how poorly we did the scores were pretty even.
We need ALB back at centre where he can see a strategise. We need Goodhue back at 12 (I know that's not popular and I would be happy to see the two swap around.
It goes without saying that we need Nugget especially if we insist on playing in the faces of a rushing line.
Incredible defensive effort. I can't believe those stats if they say BBBR made less than 18 tackles.
On the coaching front we desperately need Tony Brown to run our attack. It astounds me that for a country so full of skilful players we don't use those skills in clever ways and continue to rely on freakish instincts. Where are our wraparounds, our double cuts from deep, our angled runs from fullback?
Pissed off now and hoping things don't come in bunches. Early waking, no sleep and losses don't go together.
@crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
I think that if BB and ALB had stayed on the field we would have had a shot at scraping a win but RM, Havili, RI just don't have any smarts firstly with the rush defence and secondly with making good decisions. You don't expect smarts on the wing and our wingers today delivered on that expectation. They looked like possums in the headlights at times. JB was about the only back that looked at home but he adds little in directing play.
Nailed it. Agree 100%
Incredible defensive effort.
The one plus from the game. Keep the defence team if Foster goes.
-
Lots of good comments on how our props aren't up to standard, the cupboard is bare at No.9, apart from RM & BB there's little depth at 10 and there's a lack of experience at 12/13.
It there anyone at the NZRFU looking forward?
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Lots of good comments on how our props aren't up to standard, the cupboard is bare at No.9, apart from RM & BB there's little depth at 10 and there's a lack of experience at 12/13.
It there anyone at the NZRFU looking forward?
Apart from that all is good
-
Reiko you cock.
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Reiko you cock.
It was a stupid pass from Havili - why throw the big loopy one instead of the short one to the support runners
-
In terms of good ole test match, I loved it. Ireland looked like the All Blacks when the All Blacks used to be coached.
Ireland fully deserved that.
Can comedy Havellii now be rissoled? He is fucking hopeless with any type of pressure on him.
Foster has got shit for brains if he thinks labored passing late in the game is the solution. Why didn’t Christie come on??
What happened to ALB??
@hooroo said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
In terms of good ole test match, I loved it. Ireland looked like the All Blacks when the All Blacks used to be coached.
Ireland fully deserved that.
Can comedy Havellii now be rissoled? He is fucking hopeless with any type of pressure on him.
Foster has got shit for brains if he thinks labored passing late in the game is the solution. Why didn’t Christie come on??
What happened to ALB??
They are obsessed with experience, that's why Taylor keeps on getting a start when he has been poor for a while now.
TJP hasn't sorted out his passing for years and therefore all his experience means fuck all if he can't perform his core role properly. Should have been shown the door after his dismal performance against the States.
-
I pray to god we get humiliated by France if Foster was guaranteed to leave.
Are we guaranteed success with the next coach? No.
Is Foster an imposter? Yes.
@mofitzy_ said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
I pray to god we get humiliated by France if Foster was guaranteed to leave.
Are we guaranteed success with the next coach? No.
Is Foster an imposter? Yes.
He'd have to lose to a tier 2 side before NZR changed their tune.
Twice.
In a row.
By large margins
-
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Reiko you cock.
It was a stupid pass from Havili - why throw the big loopy one instead of the short one to the support runners
@junior said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Reiko you cock.
It was a stupid pass from Havili - why throw the big loopy one instead of the short one to the support runners
TBF, I was referring to his giving the penalty away.
-
@mofitzy_ said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
I pray to god we get humiliated by France if Foster was guaranteed to leave.
Are we guaranteed success with the next coach? No.
Is Foster an imposter? Yes.
He'd have to lose to a tier 2 side before NZR changed their tune.
Twice.
In a row.
By large margins
@machpants
Sad that they accept and embrace mediocrity but you are probably right.They will probably count a semi final RWC defeat as a success.
-
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stargazer said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew We need someone like Robertson. He knows how to get the best out of players.
My concern is that Robertson won't make that much difference and we've effectively shared the headless-chicken stuff from the field to the coaches office.
Something has gone badly wrong in the last 4 years. The only good thing to come from this game is it might make people sit up and ask some hard questions - players, coaches and NZRFU management
I suspect it runs a bit deeper than just the coach (but in saying that I’m not saying fozzie is the best man for the job .)
Blowing teams off the park with razzle dazzle isn’t as easy as it was and I think it’s largely due to the improvement in the opposition dealing with what we tend to do well .
The nh sides now look far more than well rounded than they used to, and we can look a bit like one trick poneys in our approach to the game
that goes back to coaching (and I guess, captains).
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stargazer said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew We need someone like Robertson. He knows how to get the best out of players.
My concern is that Robertson won't make that much difference and we've effectively shared the headless-chicken stuff from the field to the coaches office.
Something has gone badly wrong in the last 4 years. The only good thing to come from this game is it might make people sit up and ask some hard questions - players, coaches and NZRFU management
I suspect it runs a bit deeper than just the coach (but in saying that I’m not saying fozzie is the best man for the job .)
Blowing teams off the park with razzle dazzle isn’t as easy as it was and I think it’s largely due to the improvement in the opposition dealing with what we tend to do well .
The nh sides now look far more than well rounded than they used to, and we can look a bit like one trick poneys in our approach to the game
that goes back to coaching (and I guess, captains).
You are right , but I guess I’m saying it’s how we tend to approach the game at the lower levels and it’s become ingrained , so I’m wondering if it runs deeper
But if anyone coaches at super rugby level that resembles test match rugby the most , it’s Robertson . I think we missed a trick in not appointing him in the first place , but confused if swapping him now , is best for the team or him with only 2 years before the wc . If it doesn’t work , does he get thrown on the scrap heap as well?
Not sure if it’s that simple a fix is my concern.
-
@machpants
Sad that they accept and embrace mediocrity but you are probably right.They will probably count a semi final RWC defeat as a success.
@mofitzy_ said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@machpants
Sad that they accept and embrace mediocrity but you are probably right.They will probably count a semi final RWC defeat as a success.
Great learnings
-
@mn5 said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Geez, to think we can’t even blame this one on Bridge
his fault, when he is not there the ABs fail as they rely so much on his pace, power, and linebreaking. And he doesn't pass as badly as Reece did.
-
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stargazer said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew We need someone like Robertson. He knows how to get the best out of players.
My concern is that Robertson won't make that much difference and we've effectively shared the headless-chicken stuff from the field to the coaches office.
Something has gone badly wrong in the last 4 years. The only good thing to come from this game is it might make people sit up and ask some hard questions - players, coaches and NZRFU management
I suspect it runs a bit deeper than just the coach (but in saying that I’m not saying fozzie is the best man for the job .)
Blowing teams off the park with razzle dazzle isn’t as easy as it was and I think it’s largely due to the improvement in the opposition dealing with what we tend to do well .
The nh sides now look far more than well rounded than they used to, and we can look a bit like one trick poneys in our approach to the game
that goes back to coaching (and I guess, captains).
You are right , but I guess I’m saying it’s how we tend to approach the game at the lower levels and it’s become ingrained , so I’m wondering if it runs deeper
But if anyone coaches at super rugby level that resembles test match rugby the most , it’s Robertson . I think we missed a trick in not appointing him in the first place , but confused if swapping him now , is best for the team or him with only 2 years before the wc . If it doesn’t work , does he get thrown on the scrap heap as well?
Not sure if it’s that simple a fix is my concern.
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stargazer said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew We need someone like Robertson. He knows how to get the best out of players.
My concern is that Robertson won't make that much difference and we've effectively shared the headless-chicken stuff from the field to the coaches office.
Something has gone badly wrong in the last 4 years. The only good thing to come from this game is it might make people sit up and ask some hard questions - players, coaches and NZRFU management
I suspect it runs a bit deeper than just the coach (but in saying that I’m not saying fozzie is the best man for the job .)
Blowing teams off the park with razzle dazzle isn’t as easy as it was and I think it’s largely due to the improvement in the opposition dealing with what we tend to do well .
The nh sides now look far more than well rounded than they used to, and we can look a bit like one trick poneys in our approach to the game
that goes back to coaching (and I guess, captains).
You are right , but I guess I’m saying it’s how we tend to approach the game at the lower levels and it’s become ingrained , so I’m wondering if it runs deeper
But if anyone coaches at super rugby level that resembles test match rugby the most , it’s Robertson . I think we missed a trick in not appointing him in the first place , but confused if swapping him now , is best for the team or him with only 2 years before the wc . If it doesn’t work , does he get thrown on the scrap heap as well?
Not sure if it’s that simple a fix is my concern.
Give him 4 years, from next year, that'd be fine. Whatever he manages to achieve for 23 will be better than anything foster can do. He'll talk and talk, but not come up with anything at all to change the way the ABs play
-
@mofitzy_ said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
I pray to god we get humiliated by France if Foster was guaranteed to leave.
Are we guaranteed success with the next coach? No.
Is Foster an imposter? Yes.
He'd have to lose to a tier 2 side before NZR changed their tune.
Twice.
In a row.
By large margins
@machpants said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mofitzy_ said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
I pray to god we get humiliated by France if Foster was guaranteed to leave.
Are we guaranteed success with the next coach? No.
Is Foster an imposter? Yes.
He'd have to lose to a tier 2 side before NZR changed their tune.
Twice.
In a row.
By large margins
Yep. Foster has been a plodding coach for two decades, but somehow his journey of averageness has always been one way up the NZRU ladder...
-
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stargazer said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew We need someone like Robertson. He knows how to get the best out of players.
My concern is that Robertson won't make that much difference and we've effectively shared the headless-chicken stuff from the field to the coaches office.
Something has gone badly wrong in the last 4 years. The only good thing to come from this game is it might make people sit up and ask some hard questions - players, coaches and NZRFU management
I suspect it runs a bit deeper than just the coach (but in saying that I’m not saying fozzie is the best man for the job .)
Blowing teams off the park with razzle dazzle isn’t as easy as it was and I think it’s largely due to the improvement in the opposition dealing with what we tend to do well .
The nh sides now look far more than well rounded than they used to, and we can look a bit like one trick poneys in our approach to the game
that goes back to coaching (and I guess, captains).
You are right , but I guess I’m saying it’s how we tend to approach the game at the lower levels and it’s become ingrained , so I’m wondering if it runs deeper
But if anyone coaches at super rugby level that resembles test match rugby the most , it’s Robertson . I think we missed a trick in not appointing him in the first place , but confused if swapping him now , is best for the team or him with only 2 years before the wc . If it doesn’t work , does he get thrown on the scrap heap as well?
Not sure if it’s that simple a fix is my concern.
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stargazer said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew We need someone like Robertson. He knows how to get the best out of players.
My concern is that Robertson won't make that much difference and we've effectively shared the headless-chicken stuff from the field to the coaches office.
Something has gone badly wrong in the last 4 years. The only good thing to come from this game is it might make people sit up and ask some hard questions - players, coaches and NZRFU management
I suspect it runs a bit deeper than just the coach (but in saying that I’m not saying fozzie is the best man for the job .)
Blowing teams off the park with razzle dazzle isn’t as easy as it was and I think it’s largely due to the improvement in the opposition dealing with what we tend to do well .
The nh sides now look far more than well rounded than they used to, and we can look a bit like one trick poneys in our approach to the game
that goes back to coaching (and I guess, captains).
You are right , but I guess I’m saying it’s how we tend to approach the game at the lower levels and it’s become ingrained , so I’m wondering if it runs deeper
But if anyone coaches at super rugby level that resembles test match rugby the most , it’s Robertson . I think we missed a trick in not appointing him in the first place , but confused if swapping him now , is best for the team or him with only 2 years before the wc . If it doesn’t work , does he get thrown on the scrap heap as well?
Not sure if it’s that simple a fix is my concern.
2 years is enough, he knows key players and he was pretty good in his first year as Crusaders coach, if I recall rightly. Plus I don't think he would make huge changes at a selection level.
Whoever is coach, the combinations really need to improve. I think the players are good enough, in the main.
And I don't think he would do things like play Jordie at wing. -
@machpants said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mofitzy_ said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
I pray to god we get humiliated by France if Foster was guaranteed to leave.
Are we guaranteed success with the next coach? No.
Is Foster an imposter? Yes.
He'd have to lose to a tier 2 side before NZR changed their tune.
Twice.
In a row.
By large margins
Yep. Foster has been a plodding coach for two decades, but somehow his journey of averageness has always been one way up the NZRU ladder...
@donsteppa said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
somehow his journey of averageness has always been one way up the NZRU ladder...
Change the ladder, too.
-
Ireland were very good today and deserved their win. No complaints.
The ABs were poor and made to look very ordinary by a committed Ireland side who wanted to put us under pressure from the get go.
The AB’s are the best side in the world until they come up against a team that wants to tackle and pressure us. This had shades of the 2019 semi against England.
I have said for some time that NZ rugby are not producing the right kind of players for test rugby that can be successful in RWCs and against the very top sides. Ireland in the autumn is definitely one of those.
A lot has been made of the ABs wanting to play unstructured rugby. We are good at it. However, we either dont understand how or can’t break down a side through our own structured rugby first, to enable us to get in a position where we force them into unstructured game scenarios - pressure them into turnovers, dropped balls, poor kicks etc.
Ireland are one of the most structured sides in the game and it showed throughout the match. They enjoyed a huge amount of possession in the first half and we hade to make over 140 tackles. In one half. That required defensive effort will always come back to hurt you later in the game.
At halftime we must have talked at length about holding on to the ball, having possession to play our game that allows territory and then opportunities will follow. We kicked the ball away 3 times in the first 3 minutes and Ireland duly scored. It’s not smart rugby.
We had a huge amount of dropped passes and threw the ball into touch a few times today. Lots of those dropped balls were unforced errors tbh and we looked a panicked side trying to attack against a composed and organised Irish defence. We couldnt impose ourselves enough to force Ireland into making errors or breaking up up their defensive organisation.
Perhaps the 16 week quarantine bubble tour has finally affected the squad and the performance of the team. We saw that with SA in the RC when they lost games they perhaps shouldn’t have.
The biggest frustration is we have known for 4 years we struggle when confronted with a side like this. For all the gains we have made this year, we haven’t addressed this massive problem at all and we looked as poor as we did that night against England in the RWC loss.
Do we have the players to turn this around? Is super rugby aotearoa and trans Ta$man rugby good enough preparation for how todays test rugby is played? Is it a surprise when the assistant coach who was part of the team that oversaw the decline of AB rugby over the last 3 years and the semi loss against England, is now the head coach and showing the same weaknesses in how his side performs?
Congrats to Ireland. Well played. Lots of work to do for the all black squad over the next couple of years.
-
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stargazer said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew We need someone like Robertson. He knows how to get the best out of players.
My concern is that Robertson won't make that much difference and we've effectively shared the headless-chicken stuff from the field to the coaches office.
Something has gone badly wrong in the last 4 years. The only good thing to come from this game is it might make people sit up and ask some hard questions - players, coaches and NZRFU management
I suspect it runs a bit deeper than just the coach (but in saying that I’m not saying fozzie is the best man for the job .)
Blowing teams off the park with razzle dazzle isn’t as easy as it was and I think it’s largely due to the improvement in the opposition dealing with what we tend to do well .
The nh sides now look far more than well rounded than they used to, and we can look a bit like one trick poneys in our approach to the game
that goes back to coaching (and I guess, captains).
You are right , but I guess I’m saying it’s how we tend to approach the game at the lower levels and it’s become ingrained , so I’m wondering if it runs deeper
But if anyone coaches at super rugby level that resembles test match rugby the most , it’s Robertson . I think we missed a trick in not appointing him in the first place , but confused if swapping him now , is best for the team or him with only 2 years before the wc . If it doesn’t work , does he get thrown on the scrap heap as well?
Not sure if it’s that simple a fix is my concern.
2 years is enough, he knows key players and he was pretty good in his first year as Crusaders coach, if I recall rightly. Plus I don't think he would make huge changes at a selection level.
Whoever is coach, the combinations really need to improve. I think the players are good enough, in the main.
And I don't think he would do things like play Jordie at wing.@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stargazer said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew We need someone like Robertson. He knows how to get the best out of players.
My concern is that Robertson won't make that much difference and we've effectively shared the headless-chicken stuff from the field to the coaches office.
Something has gone badly wrong in the last 4 years. The only good thing to come from this game is it might make people sit up and ask some hard questions - players, coaches and NZRFU management
I suspect it runs a bit deeper than just the coach (but in saying that I’m not saying fozzie is the best man for the job .)
Blowing teams off the park with razzle dazzle isn’t as easy as it was and I think it’s largely due to the improvement in the opposition dealing with what we tend to do well .
The nh sides now look far more than well rounded than they used to, and we can look a bit like one trick poneys in our approach to the game
that goes back to coaching (and I guess, captains).
You are right , but I guess I’m saying it’s how we tend to approach the game at the lower levels and it’s become ingrained , so I’m wondering if it runs deeper
But if anyone coaches at super rugby level that resembles test match rugby the most , it’s Robertson . I think we missed a trick in not appointing him in the first place , but confused if swapping him now , is best for the team or him with only 2 years before the wc . If it doesn’t work , does he get thrown on the scrap heap as well?
Not sure if it’s that simple a fix is my concern.
2 years is enough, he knows key players and he was pretty good in his first year as Crusaders coach, if I recall rightly. Plus I don't think he would make huge changes at a selection level.
Whoever is coach, the combinations really need to improve. I think the players are good enough, in the main.
And I don't think he would do things like play Jordie at wing.Erasmus did it with SA
-
@machpants said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mofitzy_ said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
I pray to god we get humiliated by France if Foster was guaranteed to leave.
Are we guaranteed success with the next coach? No.
Is Foster an imposter? Yes.
He'd have to lose to a tier 2 side before NZR changed their tune.
Twice.
In a row.
By large margins
Yep. Foster has been a plodding coach for two decades, but somehow his journey of averageness has always been one way up the NZRU ladder...
It will only change when it is properly burnt down to the ground.
Its a sad state of affairs when their is high calibre Nz coaches in such demand across the world and spurn them all for Fozzie who would struggle to be in the top 10 NZ coaches.
If he walked away from the ABs after RWC 19, how many countries would have been in for him? He may have ended up coaching in Italy or a Welsh region perhaps?
