All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour
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Well done Ireland that was awesome. I loved watching you play. Hard, physical, inventive. Absolutely dominant everywhere except the scoreboard which flattered us all day. The constant ball in motion was confusing the AB defence all day, and your breakdown work was friggen excellent. A deserved dominant win built on good work both sides of the ball.
As for the ABS, fucking LOL. Talk about hammered boy. Picking an entire side of guys who can't make a dominant tackle, or get over the gain line, or be physical at the breakdown is certainly one way to play. Was the plan to confuse them by letting them have too much ball? We could not stop them doing what they wanted. Conversely when we had the ball we could do shit because we couldn't get past the gain line
So we kicked it, poorly. Over and over again. Because that's all that Ireland gave us.
Scored a couple of really pretty tries though. Jordan's a fucking star. The first was a hilarious piece of defence we ruthlessly exploited. The 2nd came out of absolute nothing.
The loose forwards were shit. They should be embarrassed the only guy who put a hit on was fucking TJP. Savea is just a non-entity in a game like this. Just a waste of space. The other two tried but just didn't have the ability.
This is humbling and shows exactly where we are. Which is nowhere.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
As for the ABS, fucking LOL. Talk about hammered boy. Picking an entire side of guys who can't make a dominant tackle, or get over the gain line, or be physical at the breakdown is certainly one way to play. Was the plan to confuse them by letting them have too much ball? We could not stop them doing what they wanted. Conversely when we had the ball we could do shit because we couldn't get past the gain line
It's rather frustrating to see the ABs continually playing the Highlanders' "make 200 tackles, and one in three games we'll get lucky and win because the opposition will make a lot of mistakes" game plan.
Thats the plan to go along with selecting three open-sides, two has-been locks, and three plodders in the front row. The Highlanders tend to be more aggressive at the ruck, and have better line speed, though.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@kiwimurph yep we have learnt nothing in the past 5 years, our play has stagnated.
Our attack is poor, our defence is poor, our phase play is poor, our cohesion is poor.
Since being exposed to a well drilled rush defence in 2016 and largely struggling to unlock it ever since, why is it we haven't employed it over the passive pattern we have used for at least 2 years now...
Not so sure that our defence is poor. It is a different style though and teams that don't make errors can do OK against it. We actively look to isolate and turn over possession then use it against an unset defence.
If the opposition play well and don't make errors though we are the ones that end up under pressure.We also continue to shoehorn players into positions.
Play Ardie at 7 ffs, play an 8 at 8...
I have no idea why Jacobsen has lost the eye of the coaches. Only thought is what you say. Trying to have DP and Ardie playing together.
need to be looking at all the 12s in super next year and really invest in them, and pick someone who is playing 12.
Tupaea has shown promise but not enough to say I'm the answer.
DH was a stopgap and Tupaea is a project. We need to persist with Tupaea, get Goodhue back and hope the Canes see fit to play PUJ
Why have all our props lost those soft skills and the ability to run?
Because they keep selecting the ancient ones (see your next point)
We also need to recognise when a player is done and unable to do the job consistently.
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Retallick shouldn't have come straight back into the ABs. He should have demonstrated he still had it in the NPC. Buggered off for two years then handed a jersey on little basis. Has been weak this year.
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Well done Ireland that was awesome. I loved watching you play. Hard, physical, inventive. Absolutely dominant everywhere except the scoreboard which flattered us all day. The constant ball in motion was confusing the AB defence all day, and your breakdown work was friggen excellent. A deserved dominant win built on good work both sides of the ball.
As for the ABS, fucking LOL. Talk about hammered boy. Picking an entire side of guys who can't make a dominant tackle, or get over the gain line, or be physical at the breakdown is certainly one way to play. Was the plan to confuse them by letting them have too much ball? We could not stop them doing what they wanted. Conversely when we had the ball we could do shit because we couldn't get past the gain line
So we kicked it, poorly. Over and over again. Because that's all that Ireland gave us.
Scored a couple of really pretty tries though. Jordan's a fucking star. The first was a hilarious piece of defence we ruthlessly exploited. The 2nd came out of absolute nothing.
The loose forwards were shit. They should be embarrassed the only guy who put a hit on was fucking TJP. Savea is just a non-entity in a game like this. Just a waste of space. The other two tried but just didn't have the ability.
This is humbling and shows exactly where we are. Which is nowhere.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Savea is just a non-entity in a game like this.
Massively overrated ... in New Zealand. Not going to hit rucks physically, or do much off static ball.
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Glad I got up at 5am to watch that before the kids woke up.
What fucking balls, complete comedy. Ireland were really, really good, no doubt. Get everything out of their guys., earned everything they got.
We are the total opposite, determined to play pretty rugby and expect a superstar moment to bring it home every time.
Set piece sucked, defense was passive, attack not direct. Why are we so unable to kick for corners and pressure set piece? Why can't we show some patience and string together more than 3 phases before a fucking cross kick?
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Savea is just a non-entity in a game like this.
Massively overrated ... in New Zealand. Not going to hit rucks physically, or do much off static ball.
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@chris said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@tim said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
The constant fuck up here is the Coaching staff.
The only team we seem to have a good game plan against is Australia.
Our defence is passive, our forward positioning, use, and selection is poor, and our attack and structure haven't changed for about 8 years.
We are poorly coached, and have the same problems as every other year.
Totall agree , it’s going to bad until after the WC by the looks of things,
This 4 year cycle between WCs wasted.Our loose trio (Ardie excepted) have promise but are young and inexperienced. Tight 5 are not the force they once were. We lack a dominant controlling 10 and our midfield is a puzzle yet to be solved. Lean days for ABs supporters right now
@canefan said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@tim said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
The constant fuck up here is the Coaching staff.
The only team we seem to have a good game plan against is Australia.
Our defence is passive, our forward positioning, use, and selection is poor, and our attack and structure haven't changed for about 8 years.
We are poorly coached, and have the same problems as every other year.
Totall agree , it’s going to bad until after the WC by the looks of things,
This 4 year cycle between WCs wasted.Our loose trio (Ardie excepted) have promise but are young and inexperienced. Tight 5 are not the force they once were. We lack a dominant controlling 10 and our midfield is a puzzle yet to be solved. Lean days for ABs supporters right now
We could have Dan Carter there and we'd still be farked. What options do our 10s have? They get zero time or space. So they can hold on and get smashed, pop it to a forward to get smashed behind the gain line or throw it wide and always risk an intercept. BB and RM would have blown their load at the service and options Sexton had.
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@tim would be fine if he started at 7 with a ball running 8 and a physically punishing 6.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@tim would be fine if he started at 7 with a ball running 8 and a physically punishing 6.
Would be a lot better coming off the bench when the game opens up.
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Super rugby aotearoa hos hidden so much. We have these games that are flat out, everyone wants themselves about how they are "test match intensity" and we talk up thr talent we have, and the huge depth
And as soon as we play someone who plays a bit different we get smacked, and realise we build, and wank over, players that do not measure up to modern top level test rugby.
We have to pick old locks because there is no one else. And we are not building any either. And out domestic coaching isn't either. The entire system has lost its way.
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Super rugby aotearoa hos hidden so much. We have these games that are flat out, everyone wants themselves about how they are "test match intensity" and we talk up thr talent we have, and the huge depth
And as soon as we play someone who plays a bit different we get smacked, and realise we build, and wank over, players that do not measure up to modern top level test rugby.
We have to pick old locks because there is no one else. And we are not building any either. And out domestic coaching isn't either. The entire system has lost its way.
@mariner4life We were poor against Wales B last week, our forwards in the first half particularly. Yet everyone in the media and elsewhere stroked themselves off over a poor win over a poor team.
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Wow, that is how you play rugby, Ireland take a bow, that was a pleasure to watch. That blueprint it how we should be playing the game.
We don't have the players
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Wow, that is how you play rugby, Ireland take a bow, that was a pleasure to watch. That blueprint it how we should be playing the game.
We don't have the players
Same was said in 2004 when Henry took over. I think Foster needs to allow combinations to settle. Gone are the days when the ABs could field 2 different XVs on consecutive weekends.
Somehow NZ were within a fwd pass of taking the lead in a game they had been dominated in both in possession and territory. I don't know of another team that can roll with the punches like them. It is uncanny. There is still pride in the jersey at least.
Changes for next game with 2023 in mind - Taukei'aho at hooker, de Groot at LH prop, persist with Vai'i at lock (Scott Barrett still to come back who has probably been NZs best lock this year), Ioane at 6, Cane/Papali'i at 7, Savea/Sotutu at 8.
If Barrett is injured, Mo'unga will start. Christie or Weber to start with him with Smith on the bench as insurance.
Midfield. Who knows. ALB should play. I think R Ioane is a world class wing, but not a WC centre. He shouldn't be playing for the ABs as a centre until he reaches that level. I'd like to see Tupaea and ALB as the centre pairing, with both instructed to run hard and hold the ball. No risky passes. Just run it up the guts and get across the advantage line to give the forwards a chance to take ball on the front foot.
Back 3 - Barrett, Jordan, Ioane.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@tim would be fine if he started at 7 with a ball running 8 and a physically punishing 6.
Would be a lot better coming off the bench when the game opens up.
@tim agreed, but point is he is a 7, not an 8.
Tbf I think cane, Dalton and Blackadder are all 6.5s, need to be looking at specialists, not all rounders.
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@tim agreed, but point is he is a 7, not an 8.
Tbf I think cane, Dalton and Blackadder are all 6.5s, need to be looking at specialists, not all rounders.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@tim agreed, but point is he is a 7, not an 8.
Tbf I think cane, Dalton and Blackadder are all 6.5s, need to be looking at specialists, not all rounders.
NZ rugby looooves all rounders because we are all in on "get your best 15 players on the park"
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@tim agreed, but point is he is a 7, not an 8.
Tbf I think cane, Dalton and Blackadder are all 6.5s, need to be looking at specialists, not all rounders.
NZ rugby looooves all rounders because we are all in on "get your best 15 players on the park"
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@tim agreed, but point is he is a 7, not an 8.
Tbf I think cane, Dalton and Blackadder are all 6.5s, need to be looking at specialists, not all rounders.
NZ rugby looooves all rounders because we are all in on "get your best 15 players on the park"
It feels a lot like Solskjaer at Man Utd. I think part of the problem for an AB coach these days is to keep as many top players involved or risk them leaving for Japan or Europe. The pull of the jersey just isn't strong enough anymore.
You have to ask - will NZ be able to ignore the overseas playing talent that they could select for much longer?
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Just reading back through the thread. Why do the stats houses get Akira's stats wrong? That's twice now they've published stats saying he made no tackles when clearly any viewer with half a functioning eye can tell them otherwise. On his brother, he seems to be copping it in the thread but I thought he was one of our better performed backs, although guilty of a couple of dud passes which was pretty much par amongst our backs.
On thinking about the NH rush defence I think the pack has to play up the middle, but crucially the forwards need to be tight as fuck so that there are always numbers as NH refs seem to favour the defender regardless of whether they're on their feet/in through the gate etc.
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@tim agreed, but point is he is a 7, not an 8.
Tbf I think cane, Dalton and Blackadder are all 6.5s, need to be looking at specialists, not all rounders.
NZ rugby looooves all rounders because we are all in on "get your best 15 players on the park"
.
You have to ask - will NZ be able to ignore the overseas playing talent that they could select for much longer?
What overseas playing talent do you think would make the ABs?
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Super rugby aotearoa hos hidden so much. We have these games that are flat out, everyone wants themselves about how they are "test match intensity" and we talk up thr talent we have, and the huge depth
And as soon as we play someone who plays a bit different we get smacked, and realise we build, and wank over, players that do not measure up to modern top level test rugby.
We have to pick old locks because there is no one else. And we are not building any either. And out domestic coaching isn't either. The entire system has lost its way.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Super rugby aotearoa hos hidden so much. We have these games that are flat out, everyone wants themselves about how they are "test match intensity" and we talk up thr talent we have, and the huge depth
And as soon as we play someone who plays a bit different we get smacked, and realise we build, and wank over, players that do not measure up to modern top level test rugby.
We have to pick old locks because there is no one else. And we are not building any either. And out domestic coaching isn't either. The entire system has lost its way.
The teams need to be encouraged to develop their own style. There is too much homogeneity in NZ rugby. I would think that getting coaches like Gatland, Brown and Schmidt back into the NZ coaching mix will help develop players to the betterment of NZ rugby. But this will take time.
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Wow, that is how you play rugby, Ireland take a bow, that was a pleasure to watch. That blueprint it how we should be playing the game.
We don't have the players
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Wow, that is how you play rugby, Ireland take a bow, that was a pleasure to watch. That blueprint it how we should be playing the game.
We don't have the players
This is the issue, we can no longer win just because we have freakishly talented players. What Ireland have shown us is the team is far more important than the individual, a well-coached team with a gameplan can beat a team full of talented players.
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Just reading back through the thread. Why do the stats houses get Akira's stats wrong? That's twice now they've published stats saying he made no tackles when clearly any viewer with half a functioning eye can tell them otherwise. On his brother, he seems to be copping it in the thread but I thought he was one of our better performed backs, although guilty of a couple of dud passes which was pretty much par amongst our backs.
On thinking about the NH rush defence I think the pack has to play up the middle, but crucially the forwards need to be tight as fuck so that there are always numbers as NH refs seem to favour the defender regardless of whether they're on their feet/in through the gate etc.
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@tim agreed, but point is he is a 7, not an 8.
Tbf I think cane, Dalton and Blackadder are all 6.5s, need to be looking at specialists, not all rounders.
NZ rugby looooves all rounders because we are all in on "get your best 15 players on the park"
.
You have to ask - will NZ be able to ignore the overseas playing talent that they could select for much longer?
What overseas playing talent do you think would make the ABs?
