All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour
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@chris said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@tim said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
The constant fuck up here is the Coaching staff.
The only team we seem to have a good game plan against is Australia.
Our defence is passive, our forward positioning, use, and selection is poor, and our attack and structure haven't changed for about 8 years.
We are poorly coached, and have the same problems as every other year.
Totall agree , it’s going to bad until after the WC by the looks of things,
This 4 year cycle between WCs wasted.Our loose trio (Ardie excepted) have promise but are young and inexperienced. Tight 5 are not the force they once were. We lack a dominant controlling 10 and our midfield is a puzzle yet to be solved. Lean days for ABs supporters right now
@canefan said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@tim said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
The constant fuck up here is the Coaching staff.
The only team we seem to have a good game plan against is Australia.
Our defence is passive, our forward positioning, use, and selection is poor, and our attack and structure haven't changed for about 8 years.
We are poorly coached, and have the same problems as every other year.
Totall agree , it’s going to bad until after the WC by the looks of things,
This 4 year cycle between WCs wasted.Our loose trio (Ardie excepted) have promise but are young and inexperienced. Tight 5 are not the force they once were. We lack a dominant controlling 10 and our midfield is a puzzle yet to be solved. Lean days for ABs supporters right now
We could have Dan Carter there and we'd still be farked. What options do our 10s have? They get zero time or space. So they can hold on and get smashed, pop it to a forward to get smashed behind the gain line or throw it wide and always risk an intercept. BB and RM would have blown their load at the service and options Sexton had.
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@tim would be fine if he started at 7 with a ball running 8 and a physically punishing 6.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@tim would be fine if he started at 7 with a ball running 8 and a physically punishing 6.
Would be a lot better coming off the bench when the game opens up.
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Super rugby aotearoa hos hidden so much. We have these games that are flat out, everyone wants themselves about how they are "test match intensity" and we talk up thr talent we have, and the huge depth
And as soon as we play someone who plays a bit different we get smacked, and realise we build, and wank over, players that do not measure up to modern top level test rugby.
We have to pick old locks because there is no one else. And we are not building any either. And out domestic coaching isn't either. The entire system has lost its way.
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Super rugby aotearoa hos hidden so much. We have these games that are flat out, everyone wants themselves about how they are "test match intensity" and we talk up thr talent we have, and the huge depth
And as soon as we play someone who plays a bit different we get smacked, and realise we build, and wank over, players that do not measure up to modern top level test rugby.
We have to pick old locks because there is no one else. And we are not building any either. And out domestic coaching isn't either. The entire system has lost its way.
@mariner4life We were poor against Wales B last week, our forwards in the first half particularly. Yet everyone in the media and elsewhere stroked themselves off over a poor win over a poor team.
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Wow, that is how you play rugby, Ireland take a bow, that was a pleasure to watch. That blueprint it how we should be playing the game.
We don't have the players
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Wow, that is how you play rugby, Ireland take a bow, that was a pleasure to watch. That blueprint it how we should be playing the game.
We don't have the players
Same was said in 2004 when Henry took over. I think Foster needs to allow combinations to settle. Gone are the days when the ABs could field 2 different XVs on consecutive weekends.
Somehow NZ were within a fwd pass of taking the lead in a game they had been dominated in both in possession and territory. I don't know of another team that can roll with the punches like them. It is uncanny. There is still pride in the jersey at least.
Changes for next game with 2023 in mind - Taukei'aho at hooker, de Groot at LH prop, persist with Vai'i at lock (Scott Barrett still to come back who has probably been NZs best lock this year), Ioane at 6, Cane/Papali'i at 7, Savea/Sotutu at 8.
If Barrett is injured, Mo'unga will start. Christie or Weber to start with him with Smith on the bench as insurance.
Midfield. Who knows. ALB should play. I think R Ioane is a world class wing, but not a WC centre. He shouldn't be playing for the ABs as a centre until he reaches that level. I'd like to see Tupaea and ALB as the centre pairing, with both instructed to run hard and hold the ball. No risky passes. Just run it up the guts and get across the advantage line to give the forwards a chance to take ball on the front foot.
Back 3 - Barrett, Jordan, Ioane.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@tim would be fine if he started at 7 with a ball running 8 and a physically punishing 6.
Would be a lot better coming off the bench when the game opens up.
@tim agreed, but point is he is a 7, not an 8.
Tbf I think cane, Dalton and Blackadder are all 6.5s, need to be looking at specialists, not all rounders.
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@tim agreed, but point is he is a 7, not an 8.
Tbf I think cane, Dalton and Blackadder are all 6.5s, need to be looking at specialists, not all rounders.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@tim agreed, but point is he is a 7, not an 8.
Tbf I think cane, Dalton and Blackadder are all 6.5s, need to be looking at specialists, not all rounders.
NZ rugby looooves all rounders because we are all in on "get your best 15 players on the park"
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@tim agreed, but point is he is a 7, not an 8.
Tbf I think cane, Dalton and Blackadder are all 6.5s, need to be looking at specialists, not all rounders.
NZ rugby looooves all rounders because we are all in on "get your best 15 players on the park"
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@tim agreed, but point is he is a 7, not an 8.
Tbf I think cane, Dalton and Blackadder are all 6.5s, need to be looking at specialists, not all rounders.
NZ rugby looooves all rounders because we are all in on "get your best 15 players on the park"
It feels a lot like Solskjaer at Man Utd. I think part of the problem for an AB coach these days is to keep as many top players involved or risk them leaving for Japan or Europe. The pull of the jersey just isn't strong enough anymore.
You have to ask - will NZ be able to ignore the overseas playing talent that they could select for much longer?
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Just reading back through the thread. Why do the stats houses get Akira's stats wrong? That's twice now they've published stats saying he made no tackles when clearly any viewer with half a functioning eye can tell them otherwise. On his brother, he seems to be copping it in the thread but I thought he was one of our better performed backs, although guilty of a couple of dud passes which was pretty much par amongst our backs.
On thinking about the NH rush defence I think the pack has to play up the middle, but crucially the forwards need to be tight as fuck so that there are always numbers as NH refs seem to favour the defender regardless of whether they're on their feet/in through the gate etc.
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@tim agreed, but point is he is a 7, not an 8.
Tbf I think cane, Dalton and Blackadder are all 6.5s, need to be looking at specialists, not all rounders.
NZ rugby looooves all rounders because we are all in on "get your best 15 players on the park"
.
You have to ask - will NZ be able to ignore the overseas playing talent that they could select for much longer?
What overseas playing talent do you think would make the ABs?
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Super rugby aotearoa hos hidden so much. We have these games that are flat out, everyone wants themselves about how they are "test match intensity" and we talk up thr talent we have, and the huge depth
And as soon as we play someone who plays a bit different we get smacked, and realise we build, and wank over, players that do not measure up to modern top level test rugby.
We have to pick old locks because there is no one else. And we are not building any either. And out domestic coaching isn't either. The entire system has lost its way.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Super rugby aotearoa hos hidden so much. We have these games that are flat out, everyone wants themselves about how they are "test match intensity" and we talk up thr talent we have, and the huge depth
And as soon as we play someone who plays a bit different we get smacked, and realise we build, and wank over, players that do not measure up to modern top level test rugby.
We have to pick old locks because there is no one else. And we are not building any either. And out domestic coaching isn't either. The entire system has lost its way.
The teams need to be encouraged to develop their own style. There is too much homogeneity in NZ rugby. I would think that getting coaches like Gatland, Brown and Schmidt back into the NZ coaching mix will help develop players to the betterment of NZ rugby. But this will take time.
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Wow, that is how you play rugby, Ireland take a bow, that was a pleasure to watch. That blueprint it how we should be playing the game.
We don't have the players
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Wow, that is how you play rugby, Ireland take a bow, that was a pleasure to watch. That blueprint it how we should be playing the game.
We don't have the players
This is the issue, we can no longer win just because we have freakishly talented players. What Ireland have shown us is the team is far more important than the individual, a well-coached team with a gameplan can beat a team full of talented players.
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Just reading back through the thread. Why do the stats houses get Akira's stats wrong? That's twice now they've published stats saying he made no tackles when clearly any viewer with half a functioning eye can tell them otherwise. On his brother, he seems to be copping it in the thread but I thought he was one of our better performed backs, although guilty of a couple of dud passes which was pretty much par amongst our backs.
On thinking about the NH rush defence I think the pack has to play up the middle, but crucially the forwards need to be tight as fuck so that there are always numbers as NH refs seem to favour the defender regardless of whether they're on their feet/in through the gate etc.
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@tim agreed, but point is he is a 7, not an 8.
Tbf I think cane, Dalton and Blackadder are all 6.5s, need to be looking at specialists, not all rounders.
NZ rugby looooves all rounders because we are all in on "get your best 15 players on the park"
.
You have to ask - will NZ be able to ignore the overseas playing talent that they could select for much longer?
What overseas playing talent do you think would make the ABs?
-
Just reading back through the thread. Why do the stats houses get Akira's stats wrong? That's twice now they've published stats saying he made no tackles when clearly any viewer with half a functioning eye can tell them otherwise. On his brother, he seems to be copping it in the thread but I thought he was one of our better performed backs, although guilty of a couple of dud passes which was pretty much par amongst our backs.
On thinking about the NH rush defence I think the pack has to play up the middle, but crucially the forwards need to be tight as fuck so that there are always numbers as NH refs seem to favour the defender regardless of whether they're on their feet/in through the gate etc.
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@tim agreed, but point is he is a 7, not an 8.
Tbf I think cane, Dalton and Blackadder are all 6.5s, need to be looking at specialists, not all rounders.
NZ rugby looooves all rounders because we are all in on "get your best 15 players on the park"
.
You have to ask - will NZ be able to ignore the overseas playing talent that they could select for much longer?
What overseas playing talent do you think would make the ABs?
@nepia said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Just reading back through the thread. Why do the stats houses get Akira's stats wrong? That's twice now they've published stats saying he made no tackles when clearly any viewer with half a functioning eye can tell them otherwise. On his brother, he seems to be copping it in the thread but I thought he was one of our better performed backs, although guilty of a couple of dud passes which was pretty much par amongst our backs.
On thinking about the NH rush defence I think the pack has to play up the middle, but crucially the forwards need to be tight as fuck so that there are always numbers as NH refs seem to favour the defender regardless of whether they're on their feet/in through the gate etc.
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@tim agreed, but point is he is a 7, not an 8.
Tbf I think cane, Dalton and Blackadder are all 6.5s, need to be looking at specialists, not all rounders.
NZ rugby looooves all rounders because we are all in on "get your best 15 players on the park"
.
You have to ask - will NZ be able to ignore the overseas playing talent that they could select for much longer?
What overseas playing talent do you think would make the ABs?
Thinking about it, you're right, it isn't so much the ABs that struggle so much with the talent drain. It is the next tier that is losing experienced pros that the up and coming players used to be able to benchmark against.
Stephen Luatua would do a mightily good job at 6.
Charles Piatau would challenge.
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Glad I got up at 5am to watch that before the kids woke up.
What fucking balls, complete comedy. Ireland were really, really good, no doubt. Get everything out of their guys., earned everything they got.
We are the total opposite, determined to play pretty rugby and expect a superstar moment to bring it home every time.
Set piece sucked, defense was passive, attack not direct. Why are we so unable to kick for corners and pressure set piece? Why can't we show some patience and string together more than 3 phases before a fucking cross kick?
@voodoo yep holding onto the ball and going through the phases would have helped. They are looking for the miracle plays too often.
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@bovidae said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Today's JGP did not look anything like the halfback who played in the 6N.
Possibly because the Irish forward runners were better contained by the other 6 Nations teams. They were making easy metres against us all night and presented quick ball which gave him an easy ride.
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Next year will be telling when Ireland tour at the end of their season. If they win away for the first time ever, sound the alarm. If they lose comprehensively, it says more that until there is a global season, outside of the world cup, it is very difficult to judge where teams are against each other.
ABs have one chance at redemption this year. It was 2004 when they put down a signature performance against France in the last game on that NH tour. The players and coaches need to do the same next weekend.
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Next year will be telling when Ireland tour at the end of their season. If they win away for the first time ever, sound the alarm. If they lose comprehensively, it says more that until there is a global season, outside of the world cup, it is very difficult to judge where teams are against each other.
ABs have one chance at redemption this year. It was 2004 when they put down a signature performance against France in the last game on that NH tour. The players and coaches need to do the same next weekend.
@stodders Muliaina; Howlett (Nonu 55), Smith (Mauger 68), Umaga (capt), Rokocoko; Carter, Kelleher; Woodcock (Somerville 62), Oliver (Mealamu 52), Hayman, Maxwell (Williams 52), Jack, Collins, McCaw, So'oialo.
I was there. Was awesome.
I'll be happy if we play structured, patient rugby with reasonable possession
