All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour
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@stargazer said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
What does the NZ u20 team look like this year? The vintages haven't been too great in recent years (the one JWC win aside). Are there some promising players coming through the system?
I can only speak of the Hurricanes region, but the selection of age grade players under Darren Larsen is abysmal. As long as he's there, you won't get the best age grade talent out of the region and some really good talent will be lost, unless they get a good chance at NPC level.
Sounds like structural issues in NZ rugby. Talent identification is something that has kept you at the top. You need to get better at that again.
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stargazer said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
What does the NZ u20 team look like this year? The vintages haven't been too great in recent years (the one JWC win aside). Are there some promising players coming through the system?
I can only speak of the Hurricanes region, but the selection of age grade players under Darren Larsen is abysmal. As long as he's there, you won't get the best age grade talent out of the region and some really good talent will be lost, unless they get a good chance at NPC level.
Sounds like structural issues in NZ rugby. Talent identification is something that has kept you at the top. You need to get better at that again.
Crusaders do that still.
It is pretty clear to me how quickly impactful good coaches are though, at the Chiefs (Rennie and team), and at the Crusaders (changing from Blackadder to Robertson). -
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Did Moaar get the flick from the Crusaders?
It was posted on here, by one of the Cantabs, that he was pushed, and that he and Robertson don't get along.
IIRC, he was an replacement for Leon MacDonald, who left unexpectedly.
@tim said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Did Moaar get the flick from the Crusaders?
It was posted on here by one of the Cantabs that he was pushed, and that he and Robertson don't get along.
Would be interesting to know why. O'Gara did some great work with Crusaders after Moaar and had a v good relationship with Robertson.
I'm intrigued to see how Schmidt goes with the Blues. Interested to see if he brings in a blitz defence. It can only help NZ rugby to have these systems and styles to play against domestically and in SRTT. NZ needs one of its two greatest assets (other being players of course) to revitalise it - that is the brains trust that is the coaching fraternity.
NZR should do all they can to retain their best coaches. You've helped the world demystify the ABs by exporting your coaches. The fear isn't there. So now ABs will have to work that little bit harder to earn the win. To do that, NZ rugby needs innovators.
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Ireland played like a Schmidt-coached and drilled team to my ignorant eyes but with more steel in the attack and defense. Is that also the opinion of the Irish fans?
IMO Farrell is an excellent defense coach. Which is a bit surprising given how his son tackles.@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Ireland played like a Schmidt-coached and drilled team to my ignorant eyes but with more steel in the attack and defense. Is that also the opinion of the Irish fans?
IMO Farrell is an excellent defense coach. Which is a bit surprising given how his son tackles.They played like Leinster. Leinster are an excellent team.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Ireland played like a Schmidt-coached and drilled team to my ignorant eyes but with more steel in the attack and defense. Is that also the opinion of the Irish fans?
IMO Farrell is an excellent defense coach. Which is a bit surprising given how his son tackles.They played like Leinster. Leinster are an excellent team.
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Ireland played like a Schmidt-coached and drilled team to my ignorant eyes but with more steel in the attack and defense. Is that also the opinion of the Irish fans?
IMO Farrell is an excellent defense coach. Which is a bit surprising given how his son tackles.They played like Leinster. Leinster are an excellent team.
12 out of the 15 are from Leinster right? Basically Leinster whipped the ABs.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Ireland played like a Schmidt-coached and drilled team to my ignorant eyes but with more steel in the attack and defense. Is that also the opinion of the Irish fans?
IMO Farrell is an excellent defense coach. Which is a bit surprising given how his son tackles.They played like Leinster. Leinster are an excellent team.
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Ireland played like a Schmidt-coached and drilled team to my ignorant eyes but with more steel in the attack and defense. Is that also the opinion of the Irish fans?
IMO Farrell is an excellent defense coach. Which is a bit surprising given how his son tackles.They played like Leinster. Leinster are an excellent team.
Unfortunately, we can't revert to the "Cantablacks" because of the George Bridge factor. And the other AB wing Reece went backwards after a good AB season IMO.
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@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Ireland played like a Schmidt-coached and drilled team to my ignorant eyes but with more steel in the attack and defense. Is that also the opinion of the Irish fans?
IMO Farrell is an excellent defense coach. Which is a bit surprising given how his son tackles.They played like Leinster. Leinster are an excellent team.
Unfortunately, we can't revert to the "Cantablacks" because of the George Bridge factor. And the other AB wing Reece went backwards after a good AB season IMO.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Ireland played like a Schmidt-coached and drilled team to my ignorant eyes but with more steel in the attack and defense. Is that also the opinion of the Irish fans?
IMO Farrell is an excellent defense coach. Which is a bit surprising given how his son tackles.They played like Leinster. Leinster are an excellent team.
Unfortunately, we can't revert to the "Cantablacks" because of the George Bridge factor. And the other AB wing Reece went backwards after a good AB season IMO.
Well the Cantablacks did have Ralph so it probably does work. But the Crusaders couldn't even win SRTT. The Bluesblacks it is.
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@act-crusader said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mofitzy_ said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@majorrage
You either want Foster gone or embrace failure.This Star Wars, “you’re either with me or against me”, talk is really really funny.
It's so funny! Look at all these chicken littles since 2015! Always saying that we're in decline and lack physical forwards! They even think Ireland are a threat! But we just keep on winning all the time so of course we appoint the same coaches and play the same tactics! HA HA HA HA HA All these panicking fools! I'm above it all!
@tim said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@act-crusader said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mofitzy_ said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@majorrage
You either want Foster gone or embrace failure.This Star Wars, “you’re either with me or against me”, talk is really really funny.
It's so funny! Look at all these chicken littles since 2015! Always saying that we're in decline and lack physical forwards! They even think Ireland are a threat! But we just keep on winning all the time so of course we appoint the same coaches and play the same tactics! HA HA HA HA HA All these panicking fools! I'm above it all!
Head in the sand thats why we have Foster.
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@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Did Moaar get the flick from the Crusaders?
It was posted on here, by one of the Cantabs, that he was pushed, and that he and Robertson don't get along.
IIRC, he was an replacement for Leon MacDonald, who left unexpectedly.
@tim said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Did Moaar get the flick from the Crusaders?
It was posted on here, by one of the Cantabs, that he was pushed, and that he and Robertson don't get along.
IIRC, he was an replacement for Leon MacDonald, who left unexpectedly.
Yep thats what happened so I understand.
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@tim said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Did Moaar get the flick from the Crusaders?
It was posted on here, by one of the Cantabs, that he was pushed, and that he and Robertson don't get along.
IIRC, he was an replacement for Leon MacDonald, who left unexpectedly.
Yep thats what happened so I understand.
@chris said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@tim said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Did Moaar get the flick from the Crusaders?
It was posted on here, by one of the Cantabs, that he was pushed, and that he and Robertson don't get along.
IIRC, he was an replacement for Leon MacDonald, who left unexpectedly.
Yep thats what happened so I understand.
Aside from the personality clash is Moar a decent coach otherwise?
But back to the personality clash did they never get along or did it fracture, as IIRC they were a coaching team for a few years together?
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I think it was well summarised above, we have an Australian forward back. Playing too many sevens, no ball runners and no physicality.
Teams like England, SA and now the Irish know they can just beat us up front and it doesn’t matter who is in the backs.
Missed ST on the bench, probably Ofa too, Akira should have started and we are screwed at lock as Brodie is not the player he was.
Would have been the perfect game to start Coles as well, for that oft used word mongrel.
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@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Ireland played like a Schmidt-coached and drilled team to my ignorant eyes but with more steel in the attack and defense. Is that also the opinion of the Irish fans?
IMO Farrell is an excellent defense coach. Which is a bit surprising given how his son tackles.They played like Leinster. Leinster are an excellent team.
12 out of the 15 are from Leinster right? Basically Leinster whipped the ABs.
@akan004 said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Ireland played like a Schmidt-coached and drilled team to my ignorant eyes but with more steel in the attack and defense. Is that also the opinion of the Irish fans?
IMO Farrell is an excellent defense coach. Which is a bit surprising given how his son tackles.They played like Leinster. Leinster are an excellent team.
12 out of the 15 are from Leinster right? Basically Leinster whipped the ABs.
Combinations brings cohesion. Ireland played like a team that have played lots of times together. Today, they raised their Leinster levels up.
Funny in a way, because the ABs used to have that same feeling that they had that cohesion. It'll take time to get that back (unless key combinations like midfield, or half backs or back row are taken from the Super rugby teams).
Nonu and Smith at the Hurricanes. McCaw and Read at the Crusaders. Collins and So'oialo at the Hurricanes.
Could there be a potential all Blues back row forcing a rethink next year? Robinson/Papali'i/Sotutu?
Big year next year for Tupaea and ALB. Any other centre combinations with promise? Goodhue and Ennor perhaps?
Barrett is playing outside Christie next year at the Blues, no? That will help if Christie kicks on.
One thing that the AB coaches need to consider is playing players in the positions they have played in for the season. Yes, AB players are very good, but even v good players need consistency to get the best out of them. If Savea is to play no 8 for the ABs, he needs to play there for the Hurricanes. Same for Blackadder at 6 playing at Crusaders.
Pick the players with the right blend. If someone misses out for the benefit of the team, tough luck. They don't need to be shoe horned in. Jordie Barrett at fullback this year is one bright spot. He has played fullback for Hurricanes, shone, and brought that confidence and experience into the ABs.
Is it really that difficult to be a selector?
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I think it was well summarised above, we have an Australian forward back. Playing too many sevens, no ball runners and no physicality.
Teams like England, SA and now the Irish know they can just beat us up front and it doesn’t matter who is in the backs.
Missed ST on the bench, probably Ofa too, Akira should have started and we are screwed at lock as Brodie is not the player he was.
Would have been the perfect game to start Coles as well, for that oft used word mongrel.
@kirwan said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
I think it was well summarised above, we have an Australian forward back. Playing too many sevens, no ball runners and no physicality.
Teams like England, SA and now the Irish know they can just beat us up front and it doesn’t matter who is in the backs.
Missed ST on the bench, probably Ofa too, Akira should have started and we are screwed at lock as Brodie is not the player he was.
Would have been the perfect game to start Coles as well, for that oft used word mongrel.
When Coles comes on and the rugby intelligence increases you know that the starting XV was wrong.
For all the gnashing of teeth though I would put money on us still winning that with Smith and BB in the halves and ALB staying on.
We probably lost the two backs that could have assessed stuff and adjusted.
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@chris said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@tim said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Did Moaar get the flick from the Crusaders?
It was posted on here, by one of the Cantabs, that he was pushed, and that he and Robertson don't get along.
IIRC, he was an replacement for Leon MacDonald, who left unexpectedly.
Yep thats what happened so I understand.
Aside from the personality clash is Moar a decent coach otherwise?
But back to the personality clash did they never get along or did it fracture, as IIRC they were a coaching team for a few years together?
@nepia said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@tim said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Did Moaar get the flick from the Crusaders?
It was posted on here, by one of the Cantabs, that he was pushed, and that he and Robertson don't get along.
IIRC, he was an replacement for Leon MacDonald, who left unexpectedly.
Yep thats what happened so I understand.
Aside from the personality clash is Moar a decent coach otherwise?
But back to the personality clash did they never get along or did it fracture, as IIRC they were a coaching team for a few years together?
I don't think he is a good coach and I hear hes pretty full of itself.
I understand it fell apart in he Crusaders environment a bit of talking out of school by Mooar.
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@kirwan said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
I think it was well summarised above, we have an Australian forward back. Playing too many sevens, no ball runners and no physicality.
Teams like England, SA and now the Irish know they can just beat us up front and it doesn’t matter who is in the backs.
Missed ST on the bench, probably Ofa too, Akira should have started and we are screwed at lock as Brodie is not the player he was.
Would have been the perfect game to start Coles as well, for that oft used word mongrel.
When Coles comes on and the rugby intelligence increases you know that the starting XV was wrong.
For all the gnashing of teeth though I would put money on us still winning that with Smith and BB in the halves and ALB staying on.
We probably lost the two backs that could have assessed stuff and adjusted.
@crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@kirwan said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
I think it was well summarised above, we have an Australian forward back. Playing too many sevens, no ball runners and no physicality.
Teams like England, SA and now the Irish know they can just beat us up front and it doesn’t matter who is in the backs.
Missed ST on the bench, probably Ofa too, Akira should have started and we are screwed at lock as Brodie is not the player he was.
Would have been the perfect game to start Coles as well, for that oft used word mongrel.
When Coles comes on and the rugby intelligence increases you know that the starting XV was wrong.
For all the gnashing of teeth though I would put money on us still winning that with Smith and BB in the halves and ALB staying on.
We probably lost the two backs that could have assessed stuff and adjusted.
Sliding doors moment was the forward pass try. There was just no need to force the pass forward. Akira was clean through regardless.
Other area to consider is ABs conceded 15 points without reply at beginning of 2nd half. Boks did the same to them at beginning of second test in RC this year. Have teams spotted something in NZ at beginning of 2nd half to exploit?
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@nepia said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@tim said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Did Moaar get the flick from the Crusaders?
It was posted on here, by one of the Cantabs, that he was pushed, and that he and Robertson don't get along.
IIRC, he was an replacement for Leon MacDonald, who left unexpectedly.
Yep thats what happened so I understand.
Aside from the personality clash is Moar a decent coach otherwise?
But back to the personality clash did they never get along or did it fracture, as IIRC they were a coaching team for a few years together?
I don't think he is a good coach and I hear hes pretty full of itself.
I understand it fell apart in he Crusaders environment a bit of talking out of school by Mooar.
@chris said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@nepia said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@tim said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Did Moaar get the flick from the Crusaders?
It was posted on here, by one of the Cantabs, that he was pushed, and that he and Robertson don't get along.
IIRC, he was an replacement for Leon MacDonald, who left unexpectedly.
Yep thats what happened so I understand.
Aside from the personality clash is Moar a decent coach otherwise?
But back to the personality clash did they never get along or did it fracture, as IIRC they were a coaching team for a few years together?
I don't think he is a good coach and I hear hes pretty full of itself.
I understand it fell apart in he Crusaders environment a bit of talking out of school by Mooar.
Why did Foster choose him? Was he next best option after Tony Brown said no?
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@chris said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@tim said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Did Moaar get the flick from the Crusaders?
It was posted on here, by one of the Cantabs, that he was pushed, and that he and Robertson don't get along.
IIRC, he was an replacement for Leon MacDonald, who left unexpectedly.
Yep thats what happened so I understand.
Aside from the personality clash is Moar a decent coach otherwise?
But back to the personality clash did they never get along or did it fracture, as IIRC they were a coaching team for a few years together?
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@chris said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@nepia said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@tim said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Did Moaar get the flick from the Crusaders?
It was posted on here, by one of the Cantabs, that he was pushed, and that he and Robertson don't get along.
IIRC, he was an replacement for Leon MacDonald, who left unexpectedly.
Yep thats what happened so I understand.
Aside from the personality clash is Moar a decent coach otherwise?
But back to the personality clash did they never get along or did it fracture, as IIRC they were a coaching team for a few years together?
I don't think he is a good coach and I hear hes pretty full of itself.
I understand it fell apart in he Crusaders environment a bit of talking out of school by Mooar.
Why did Foster choose him? Was he next best option after Tony Brown said no?
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@nepia said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@tim said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Did Moaar get the flick from the Crusaders?
It was posted on here, by one of the Cantabs, that he was pushed, and that he and Robertson don't get along.
IIRC, he was an replacement for Leon MacDonald, who left unexpectedly.
Yep thats what happened so I understand.
Aside from the personality clash is Moar a decent coach otherwise?
But back to the personality clash did they never get along or did it fracture, as IIRC they were a coaching team for a few years together?
I don't think he is a good coach and I hear hes pretty full of itself.
I understand it fell apart in he Crusaders environment a bit of talking out of school by Mooar.
Why did Foster choose him? Was he next best option after Tony Brown said no?
I don't know why I think they were getting along ok until they came together at the Crusaders.
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So, watch the reply this morning
First and foremost the Irish played better than us, our tries came from a couple of moment so of individual brilliance where as theirs came from building pressure and periods of dominance
They deserved to win
Re some Of the refs decisions, yes I disagree with the calls on principle…it’s not tiddly winks etc…but, these calls aren’t unexpected, especially in the NH and so if we’re not planning and training around these things then we’re not planning properly…funnily enough, complaining to ref that you think he’s got it wrong…almost never works
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@akan004 said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Ireland played like a Schmidt-coached and drilled team to my ignorant eyes but with more steel in the attack and defense. Is that also the opinion of the Irish fans?
IMO Farrell is an excellent defense coach. Which is a bit surprising given how his son tackles.They played like Leinster. Leinster are an excellent team.
12 out of the 15 are from Leinster right? Basically Leinster whipped the ABs.
Combinations brings cohesion. Ireland played like a team that have played lots of times together. Today, they raised their Leinster levels up.
Funny in a way, because the ABs used to have that same feeling that they had that cohesion. It'll take time to get that back (unless key combinations like midfield, or half backs or back row are taken from the Super rugby teams).
Nonu and Smith at the Hurricanes. McCaw and Read at the Crusaders. Collins and So'oialo at the Hurricanes.
Could there be a potential all Blues back row forcing a rethink next year? Robinson/Papali'i/Sotutu?
Big year next year for Tupaea and ALB. Any other centre combinations with promise? Goodhue and Ennor perhaps?
Barrett is playing outside Christie next year at the Blues, no? That will help if Christie kicks on.
One thing that the AB coaches need to consider is playing players in the positions they have played in for the season. Yes, AB players are very good, but even v good players need consistency to get the best out of them. If Savea is to play no 8 for the ABs, he needs to play there for the Hurricanes. Same for Blackadder at 6 playing at Crusaders.
Pick the players with the right blend. If someone misses out for the benefit of the team, tough luck. They don't need to be shoe horned in. Jordie Barrett at fullback this year is one bright spot. He has played fullback for Hurricanes, shone, and brought that confidence and experience into the ABs.
Is it really that difficult to be a selector?
@stodders fantastic point about 12 players being part of the Leinster lineup , that many players in the starting lineup is impressive ..
The combinations on attack and defence showed big time..Just in terms of the season , if you were totally honest about whom we have played
In 2021 and thats disrespect to some off the opposition we played , but some of the teams we played bar the last 2 tests against the Springboks were nothing but cannon fodder ..
Unstrength
Tonga
Fiji (twice)
USA
Italy
A Puma team thats struggling
and an Australian team that has in inferiority complex when playing the All Blacks , how do you get better when the opposition is this poor…?
When we do come up against teams who bring heat across all facets which effects decsion making , we get found out ..!
