Foster, Robertson, Rennie etc
-
My take on the whole thing on who got the job, is everyone has favourites, Razor is from Canterbury, and remember the shit when Henry was reappointed after 2007 over Deans? I not suggesting only people from Canterbury are only ones who want Razor by any means , but we have history in NZ of when someone from down that way misses selection for a rugby team a few from down there get pretty rabid and it tend to get people taking sides and being anti one or the other.
Hell I remember when Hewson got fullback job , when ABs had a test in Chch the so called fans were outside the ABs hotel the night before test chanting Hewson's a piston wristed gibbon etc, and coming over (I was residing in Oz at time) in 2010 to a test, my mates from Aus couldn't believe the bitterness against AB's coaching staff and how many shopkeepers etc were saying they were supporting the Wallabies. :beaming_face_with_smiling_eyes: :face_with_tongue: -
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
I'm genuinely struggling to see your point here (though to be fair I cant access the article due to geo-blocking).
An experienced bloke, Graham Henry, comes to an opinion on Foster having interviewed the other applicants and sticks to that opinion. Sounds pretty straightforward to me. Unless you don't want experienced people inputting into selection on the basis their successor has worked with a candidate, what do you think is the issue?
That wasn't for you, I'm being a bit besieged by a few posters and I'm not going back to find the specific post but someone complained that Robertson was complaining and mentioning the interview. That link was just to question (and I should have commented as such) that Sir Graham felt free to comment on the selection, so I wonder why Robertson can't answer a direct question on it without being seen as a whiner.
But it is two or three days now where I seem to be defending a Crusaders coach against Chiefs and Blues coaches. And I'd really rather just get on with life and take back any brazen suggestion that it wasn't such a great idea given the Henry-Hansen-Foster love triangle (and that was said tongue in cheek but no doubt it will trigger someone).I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/119529151/all-blacks-coach-ian-foster-my-chiefs-experience-doesnt-define-who-i-am-nowLet's review that stint first. In his eight seasons Foster took the Hamilton-based franchise to the finals twice, in 2004 (where they lost in the semifinals to the Brumbies) and 2009 (a defeat in the final to the Bulls). They also finished 6th in '05, 7th in '06, 6th in '07, 7th in '08, 11th in 2010 and 10th in '11... The reality was Foster's Chiefs tenure wasn't as bad as some portray. He had winning records in five of his eight seasons and four of his first six campaigns saw the team finish in the top six, while they were seventh in the other two. It's not lost on him that those positions would all net finals spots – and pass marks – under the current Super Rugby thresholds... But his last two seasons were poor – a combined record of 10-2-17 – and his efforts were further shaded by the fact that when Dave Rennie took charge he won Super Rugby titles in his first two seasons, 2012 and '13.So where was Foster's international experience? As AB assistant coach? Co-coaching the junior ABs? (and not sure how many he won/lost for the latter).
Scott Robertson won 5 titles for Crusaders, titles for Canterbury (two I think?) and once as head coach of the New Zealand Under-20 Rugby team-2015 World Rugby Under 20 Championship (but not even playoffs in 2016).
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
this is the bit where, despite being in the 'Foster must go' camp (and one fo the founding members, I have to add Wayne Smith's perspective.
Smith in a radio interview I heard prior to the selection basically said you can't judge him on where he was, as people grow and develop. The clear undercurrent was that he brought a lot to the table, and the chiefs was a long time ago.
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
-
Fozzie seems to embrace the whole social media thing, seeing a few clips from him on the ABs IG page over the weeks.
@dan54 said in All Blacks 2021:
Usually senior team members of the team are screened for their opinion to, and I guessing they may have a slightly more idea of coaching abilities of coaches than us.
Yeah I think this is something likely often overlooked.
Sure players might like him, but they will know if he is a good coach or not, and its on them if they didnt give an honest appraisal when asked.
Ask any player and they always have a fave coach that they got to work with, may not be able to say exactly why they were the best, but they know.
I've heard guys that worked under Henry citing him as the best (this was from guys that only played provincial and super, not Int)
For me I got to work under Bryce Woodward for some 7s training, and for me it was how he simplified things, how he delivered the message and you wanted to do well.
I saw this at U14/16 level when I was coaching my sons team, we'd have them doing drills, moves etc, they'd be doing them well, but Tony Monaghan or David Holwell have them do the exact same drill or move, but they get them doing it so much better.
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@nostrildamus Yep mate regardless of what you and I think, the decision was between Foster and Razor the only 2 that applied, and without knowing what was asked, and actually been part of their teams and coached by them etc, how the hell would we know who is best?
Usually senior team members of the team are screened for their opinion to, and I guessing they may have a slightly more idea of coaching abilities of coaches than us.
As I said I always liked idea of someone else (JJ and TB), but am just smart enough to know I probably don't know more than the ones doing the selecting of coaches etc.
And while Foster is coaching the ABs he is part of the team I support so I will support him too!@dan54 said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus Yep mate regardless of what you and I think, the decision was between Foster and Razor the only 2 that applied, and without knowing what was asked, and actually been part of their teams and coached by them etc, how the hell would we know who is best?
Its a head coach job. We would know via their previous head coach results. -
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
this is the bit where, despite being in the 'Foster must go' camp (and one fo the founding members, I have to add Wayne Smith's perspective.
Smith in a radio interview I heard prior to the selection basically said you can't judge him on where he was, as people grow and develop. The clear undercurrent was that he brought a lot to the table, and the chiefs was a long time ago.
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
this is the bit where, despite being in the 'Foster must go' camp (and one fo the founding members, I have to add Wayne Smith's perspective.
Smith in a radio interview I heard prior to the selection basically said you can't judge him on where he was, as people grow and develop. The clear undercurrent was that he brought a lot to the table, and the chiefs was a long time ago.
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
And this is the bit where the sensible decision is to say 'yep you know heaps, but we haven't seen you succeed as a head coach, so go away and sort that and come back next time'
-
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
this is the bit where, despite being in the 'Foster must go' camp (and one fo the founding members, I have to add Wayne Smith's perspective.
Smith in a radio interview I heard prior to the selection basically said you can't judge him on where he was, as people grow and develop. The clear undercurrent was that he brought a lot to the table, and the chiefs was a long time ago.
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
And this is the bit where the sensible decision is to say 'yep you know heaps, but we haven't seen you succeed as a head coach, so go away and sort that and come back next time'
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
this is the bit where, despite being in the 'Foster must go' camp (and one fo the founding members, I have to add Wayne Smith's perspective.
Smith in a radio interview I heard prior to the selection basically said you can't judge him on where he was, as people grow and develop. The clear undercurrent was that he brought a lot to the table, and the chiefs was a long time ago.
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
And this is the bit where the sensible decision is to say 'yep you know heaps, but we haven't seen you succeed as a head coach, so go away and sort that and come back next time'
Yes I think Razor was judged under harsher criteria than Foster, because he had a better record but may not have known the panel as well.
But also, we are talking about Foster yet there is a strong Canes influence in the selection of key positions (Ardie as captain, TJP on for so long, BB? Jordie at FB and wing) and while some or all those decisions have merit (not JB at wing and I do think they over-rely on TJP's experience), I wonder if Plumtree has a strong say (but he seems to have a solid career as assistant coach overseas?)
So perhaps the Foster team had more cachet than the Robertson team, I don't know. But I don't see the head coach record, and the Foster era seems more of the same as the Hansen era (perhaps others here see the Foster stamp on the team that he intended to make).
But I do wish we had someone in there with the nous of Wayne Smith. -
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
this is the bit where, despite being in the 'Foster must go' camp (and one fo the founding members, I have to add Wayne Smith's perspective.
Smith in a radio interview I heard prior to the selection basically said you can't judge him on where he was, as people grow and develop. The clear undercurrent was that he brought a lot to the table, and the chiefs was a long time ago.
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
And this is the bit where the sensible decision is to say 'yep you know heaps, but we haven't seen you succeed as a head coach, so go away and sort that and come back next time'
Yes I think Razor was judged under harsher criteria than Foster, because he had a better record but may not have known the panel as well.
But also, we are talking about Foster yet there is a strong Canes influence in the selection of key positions (Ardie as captain, TJP on for so long, BB? Jordie at FB and wing) and while some or all those decisions have merit (not JB at wing and I do think they over-rely on TJP's experience), I wonder if Plumtree has a strong say (but he seems to have a solid career as assistant coach overseas?)
So perhaps the Foster team had more cachet than the Robertson team, I don't know. But I don't see the head coach record, and the Foster era seems more of the same as the Hansen era (perhaps others here see the Foster stamp on the team that he intended to make).
But I do wish we had someone in there with the nous of Wayne Smith.@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
this is the bit where, despite being in the 'Foster must go' camp (and one fo the founding members, I have to add Wayne Smith's perspective.
Smith in a radio interview I heard prior to the selection basically said you can't judge him on where he was, as people grow and develop. The clear undercurrent was that he brought a lot to the table, and the chiefs was a long time ago.
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
And this is the bit where the sensible decision is to say 'yep you know heaps, but we haven't seen you succeed as a head coach, so go away and sort that and come back next time'
Yes I think Razor was judged under harsher criteria than Foster, because he had a better record but may not have known the panel as well.
But also, we are talking about Foster yet there is a strong Canes influence in the selection of key positions (Ardie as captain, TJP on for so long, BB? Jordie at FB and wing) and while some or all those decisions have merit (not JB at wing and I do think they over-rely on TJP's experience), I wonder if Plumtree has a strong say (but he seems to have a solid career as assistant coach overseas?)
So perhaps the Foster team had more cachet than the Robertson team, I don't know. But I don't see the head coach record, and the Foster era seems more of the same as the Hansen era (perhaps others here see the Foster stamp on the team that he intended to make).
But I do wish we had someone in there with the nous of Wayne Smith.You do. He's called Tony Brown. A thinker. Someone who will be innovative. Forged in NZ, but with great experience of foreign cultures and playing styles. He's NZ's future IMO. He has to be involved at some point.
-
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
this is the bit where, despite being in the 'Foster must go' camp (and one fo the founding members, I have to add Wayne Smith's perspective.
Smith in a radio interview I heard prior to the selection basically said you can't judge him on where he was, as people grow and develop. The clear undercurrent was that he brought a lot to the table, and the chiefs was a long time ago.
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
And this is the bit where the sensible decision is to say 'yep you know heaps, but we haven't seen you succeed as a head coach, so go away and sort that and come back next time'
Yes I think Razor was judged under harsher criteria than Foster, because he had a better record but may not have known the panel as well.
But also, we are talking about Foster yet there is a strong Canes influence in the selection of key positions (Ardie as captain, TJP on for so long, BB? Jordie at FB and wing) and while some or all those decisions have merit (not JB at wing and I do think they over-rely on TJP's experience), I wonder if Plumtree has a strong say (but he seems to have a solid career as assistant coach overseas?)
So perhaps the Foster team had more cachet than the Robertson team, I don't know. But I don't see the head coach record, and the Foster era seems more of the same as the Hansen era (perhaps others here see the Foster stamp on the team that he intended to make).
But I do wish we had someone in there with the nous of Wayne Smith.You do. He's called Tony Brown. A thinker. Someone who will be innovative. Forged in NZ, but with great experience of foreign cultures and playing styles. He's NZ's future IMO. He has to be involved at some point.
@stodders said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
this is the bit where, despite being in the 'Foster must go' camp (and one fo the founding members, I have to add Wayne Smith's perspective.
Smith in a radio interview I heard prior to the selection basically said you can't judge him on where he was, as people grow and develop. The clear undercurrent was that he brought a lot to the table, and the chiefs was a long time ago.
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
And this is the bit where the sensible decision is to say 'yep you know heaps, but we haven't seen you succeed as a head coach, so go away and sort that and come back next time'
Yes I think Razor was judged under harsher criteria than Foster, because he had a better record but may not have known the panel as well.
But also, we are talking about Foster yet there is a strong Canes influence in the selection of key positions (Ardie as captain, TJP on for so long, BB? Jordie at FB and wing) and while some or all those decisions have merit (not JB at wing and I do think they over-rely on TJP's experience), I wonder if Plumtree has a strong say (but he seems to have a solid career as assistant coach overseas?)
So perhaps the Foster team had more cachet than the Robertson team, I don't know. But I don't see the head coach record, and the Foster era seems more of the same as the Hansen era (perhaps others here see the Foster stamp on the team that he intended to make).
But I do wish we had someone in there with the nous of Wayne Smith.You do. He's called Tony Brown. A thinker. Someone who will be innovative. Forged in NZ, but with great experience of foreign cultures and playing styles. He's NZ's future IMO. He has to be involved at some point.
His involvement was dependent on JJ being there
-
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
this is the bit where, despite being in the 'Foster must go' camp (and one fo the founding members, I have to add Wayne Smith's perspective.
Smith in a radio interview I heard prior to the selection basically said you can't judge him on where he was, as people grow and develop. The clear undercurrent was that he brought a lot to the table, and the chiefs was a long time ago.
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
And this is the bit where the sensible decision is to say 'yep you know heaps, but we haven't seen you succeed as a head coach, so go away and sort that and come back next time'
Yes I think Razor was judged under harsher criteria than Foster, because he had a better record but may not have known the panel as well.
But also, we are talking about Foster yet there is a strong Canes influence in the selection of key positions (Ardie as captain, TJP on for so long, BB? Jordie at FB and wing) and while some or all those decisions have merit (not JB at wing and I do think they over-rely on TJP's experience), I wonder if Plumtree has a strong say (but he seems to have a solid career as assistant coach overseas?)
So perhaps the Foster team had more cachet than the Robertson team, I don't know. But I don't see the head coach record, and the Foster era seems more of the same as the Hansen era (perhaps others here see the Foster stamp on the team that he intended to make).
But I do wish we had someone in there with the nous of Wayne Smith.You do. He's called Tony Brown. A thinker. Someone who will be innovative. Forged in NZ, but with great experience of foreign cultures and playing styles. He's NZ's future IMO. He has to be involved at some point.
@stodders said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
this is the bit where, despite being in the 'Foster must go' camp (and one fo the founding members, I have to add Wayne Smith's perspective.
Smith in a radio interview I heard prior to the selection basically said you can't judge him on where he was, as people grow and develop. The clear undercurrent was that he brought a lot to the table, and the chiefs was a long time ago.
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
And this is the bit where the sensible decision is to say 'yep you know heaps, but we haven't seen you succeed as a head coach, so go away and sort that and come back next time'
Yes I think Razor was judged under harsher criteria than Foster, because he had a better record but may not have known the panel as well.
But also, we are talking about Foster yet there is a strong Canes influence in the selection of key positions (Ardie as captain, TJP on for so long, BB? Jordie at FB and wing) and while some or all those decisions have merit (not JB at wing and I do think they over-rely on TJP's experience), I wonder if Plumtree has a strong say (but he seems to have a solid career as assistant coach overseas?)
So perhaps the Foster team had more cachet than the Robertson team, I don't know. But I don't see the head coach record, and the Foster era seems more of the same as the Hansen era (perhaps others here see the Foster stamp on the team that he intended to make).
But I do wish we had someone in there with the nous of Wayne Smith.You do. He's called Tony Brown. A thinker. Someone who will be innovative. Forged in NZ, but with great experience of foreign cultures and playing styles. He's NZ's future IMO. He has to be involved at some point.
yes. His teams are also often good to watch.
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@stodders said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
this is the bit where, despite being in the 'Foster must go' camp (and one fo the founding members, I have to add Wayne Smith's perspective.
Smith in a radio interview I heard prior to the selection basically said you can't judge him on where he was, as people grow and develop. The clear undercurrent was that he brought a lot to the table, and the chiefs was a long time ago.
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
And this is the bit where the sensible decision is to say 'yep you know heaps, but we haven't seen you succeed as a head coach, so go away and sort that and come back next time'
Yes I think Razor was judged under harsher criteria than Foster, because he had a better record but may not have known the panel as well.
But also, we are talking about Foster yet there is a strong Canes influence in the selection of key positions (Ardie as captain, TJP on for so long, BB? Jordie at FB and wing) and while some or all those decisions have merit (not JB at wing and I do think they over-rely on TJP's experience), I wonder if Plumtree has a strong say (but he seems to have a solid career as assistant coach overseas?)
So perhaps the Foster team had more cachet than the Robertson team, I don't know. But I don't see the head coach record, and the Foster era seems more of the same as the Hansen era (perhaps others here see the Foster stamp on the team that he intended to make).
But I do wish we had someone in there with the nous of Wayne Smith.You do. He's called Tony Brown. A thinker. Someone who will be innovative. Forged in NZ, but with great experience of foreign cultures and playing styles. He's NZ's future IMO. He has to be involved at some point.
His involvement was dependent on JJ being there
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
this is the bit where, despite being in the 'Foster must go' camp (and one fo the founding members, I have to add Wayne Smith's perspective.
Smith in a radio interview I heard prior to the selection basically said you can't judge him on where he was, as people grow and develop. The clear undercurrent was that he brought a lot to the table, and the chiefs was a long time ago.
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
And this is the bit where the sensible decision is to say 'yep you know heaps, but we haven't seen you succeed as a head coach, so go away and sort that and come back next time'
Yes I think Razor was judged under harsher criteria than Foster, because he had a better record but may not have known the panel as well.
But also, we are talking about Foster yet there is a strong Canes influence in the selection of key positions (Ardie as captain, TJP on for so long, BB? Jordie at FB and wing) and while some or all those decisions have merit (not JB at wing and I do think they over-rely on TJP's experience), I wonder if Plumtree has a strong say (but he seems to have a solid career as assistant coach overseas?)
So perhaps the Foster team had more cachet than the Robertson team, I don't know. But I don't see the head coach record, and the Foster era seems more of the same as the Hansen era (perhaps others here see the Foster stamp on the team that he intended to make).
But I do wish we had someone in there with the nous of Wayne Smith.You do. He's called Tony Brown. A thinker. Someone who will be innovative. Forged in NZ, but with great experience of foreign cultures and playing styles. He's NZ's future IMO. He has to be involved at some point.
His involvement was dependent on JJ being there
In 2019, yes. Might be a different story in 2023.
-
@stodders said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
this is the bit where, despite being in the 'Foster must go' camp (and one fo the founding members, I have to add Wayne Smith's perspective.
Smith in a radio interview I heard prior to the selection basically said you can't judge him on where he was, as people grow and develop. The clear undercurrent was that he brought a lot to the table, and the chiefs was a long time ago.
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
And this is the bit where the sensible decision is to say 'yep you know heaps, but we haven't seen you succeed as a head coach, so go away and sort that and come back next time'
Yes I think Razor was judged under harsher criteria than Foster, because he had a better record but may not have known the panel as well.
But also, we are talking about Foster yet there is a strong Canes influence in the selection of key positions (Ardie as captain, TJP on for so long, BB? Jordie at FB and wing) and while some or all those decisions have merit (not JB at wing and I do think they over-rely on TJP's experience), I wonder if Plumtree has a strong say (but he seems to have a solid career as assistant coach overseas?)
So perhaps the Foster team had more cachet than the Robertson team, I don't know. But I don't see the head coach record, and the Foster era seems more of the same as the Hansen era (perhaps others here see the Foster stamp on the team that he intended to make).
But I do wish we had someone in there with the nous of Wayne Smith.You do. He's called Tony Brown. A thinker. Someone who will be innovative. Forged in NZ, but with great experience of foreign cultures and playing styles. He's NZ's future IMO. He has to be involved at some point.
His involvement was dependent on JJ being there
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
this is the bit where, despite being in the 'Foster must go' camp (and one fo the founding members, I have to add Wayne Smith's perspective.
Smith in a radio interview I heard prior to the selection basically said you can't judge him on where he was, as people grow and develop. The clear undercurrent was that he brought a lot to the table, and the chiefs was a long time ago.
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
And this is the bit where the sensible decision is to say 'yep you know heaps, but we haven't seen you succeed as a head coach, so go away and sort that and come back next time'
Yes I think Razor was judged under harsher criteria than Foster, because he had a better record but may not have known the panel as well.
But also, we are talking about Foster yet there is a strong Canes influence in the selection of key positions (Ardie as captain, TJP on for so long, BB? Jordie at FB and wing) and while some or all those decisions have merit (not JB at wing and I do think they over-rely on TJP's experience), I wonder if Plumtree has a strong say (but he seems to have a solid career as assistant coach overseas?)
So perhaps the Foster team had more cachet than the Robertson team, I don't know. But I don't see the head coach record, and the Foster era seems more of the same as the Hansen era (perhaps others here see the Foster stamp on the team that he intended to make).
But I do wish we had someone in there with the nous of Wayne Smith.You do. He's called Tony Brown. A thinker. Someone who will be innovative. Forged in NZ, but with great experience of foreign cultures and playing styles. He's NZ's future IMO. He has to be involved at some point.
His involvement was dependent on JJ being there
That was a timing thing as well though. He had already given his word to JJ that he would support him with Japan and wasn't prepared to go back on his word.
-
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
this is the bit where, despite being in the 'Foster must go' camp (and one fo the founding members, I have to add Wayne Smith's perspective.
Smith in a radio interview I heard prior to the selection basically said you can't judge him on where he was, as people grow and develop. The clear undercurrent was that he brought a lot to the table, and the chiefs was a long time ago.
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
And this is the bit where the sensible decision is to say 'yep you know heaps, but we haven't seen you succeed as a head coach, so go away and sort that and come back next time'
Yes I think Razor was judged under harsher criteria than Foster, because he had a better record but may not have known the panel as well.
But also, we are talking about Foster yet there is a strong Canes influence in the selection of key positions (Ardie as captain, TJP on for so long, BB? Jordie at FB and wing) and while some or all those decisions have merit (not JB at wing and I do think they over-rely on TJP's experience), I wonder if Plumtree has a strong say (but he seems to have a solid career as assistant coach overseas?)
So perhaps the Foster team had more cachet than the Robertson team, I don't know. But I don't see the head coach record, and the Foster era seems more of the same as the Hansen era (perhaps others here see the Foster stamp on the team that he intended to make).
But I do wish we had someone in there with the nous of Wayne Smith.You do. He's called Tony Brown. A thinker. Someone who will be innovative. Forged in NZ, but with great experience of foreign cultures and playing styles. He's NZ's future IMO. He has to be involved at some point.
His involvement was dependent on JJ being there
That was a timing thing as well though. He had already given his word to JJ that he would support him with Japan and wasn't prepared to go back on his word.
@crucial said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
this is the bit where, despite being in the 'Foster must go' camp (and one fo the founding members, I have to add Wayne Smith's perspective.
Smith in a radio interview I heard prior to the selection basically said you can't judge him on where he was, as people grow and develop. The clear undercurrent was that he brought a lot to the table, and the chiefs was a long time ago.
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
And this is the bit where the sensible decision is to say 'yep you know heaps, but we haven't seen you succeed as a head coach, so go away and sort that and come back next time'
Yes I think Razor was judged under harsher criteria than Foster, because he had a better record but may not have known the panel as well.
But also, we are talking about Foster yet there is a strong Canes influence in the selection of key positions (Ardie as captain, TJP on for so long, BB? Jordie at FB and wing) and while some or all those decisions have merit (not JB at wing and I do think they over-rely on TJP's experience), I wonder if Plumtree has a strong say (but he seems to have a solid career as assistant coach overseas?)
So perhaps the Foster team had more cachet than the Robertson team, I don't know. But I don't see the head coach record, and the Foster era seems more of the same as the Hansen era (perhaps others here see the Foster stamp on the team that he intended to make).
But I do wish we had someone in there with the nous of Wayne Smith.You do. He's called Tony Brown. A thinker. Someone who will be innovative. Forged in NZ, but with great experience of foreign cultures and playing styles. He's NZ's future IMO. He has to be involved at some point.
His involvement was dependent on JJ being there
That was a timing thing as well though. He had already given his word to JJ that he would support him with Japan and wasn't prepared to go back on his word.
A Razor JJ Tony Brown trio sounds exciting on paper
-
@crucial said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
this is the bit where, despite being in the 'Foster must go' camp (and one fo the founding members, I have to add Wayne Smith's perspective.
Smith in a radio interview I heard prior to the selection basically said you can't judge him on where he was, as people grow and develop. The clear undercurrent was that he brought a lot to the table, and the chiefs was a long time ago.
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
And this is the bit where the sensible decision is to say 'yep you know heaps, but we haven't seen you succeed as a head coach, so go away and sort that and come back next time'
Yes I think Razor was judged under harsher criteria than Foster, because he had a better record but may not have known the panel as well.
But also, we are talking about Foster yet there is a strong Canes influence in the selection of key positions (Ardie as captain, TJP on for so long, BB? Jordie at FB and wing) and while some or all those decisions have merit (not JB at wing and I do think they over-rely on TJP's experience), I wonder if Plumtree has a strong say (but he seems to have a solid career as assistant coach overseas?)
So perhaps the Foster team had more cachet than the Robertson team, I don't know. But I don't see the head coach record, and the Foster era seems more of the same as the Hansen era (perhaps others here see the Foster stamp on the team that he intended to make).
But I do wish we had someone in there with the nous of Wayne Smith.You do. He's called Tony Brown. A thinker. Someone who will be innovative. Forged in NZ, but with great experience of foreign cultures and playing styles. He's NZ's future IMO. He has to be involved at some point.
His involvement was dependent on JJ being there
That was a timing thing as well though. He had already given his word to JJ that he would support him with Japan and wasn't prepared to go back on his word.
A Razor JJ Tony Brown trio sounds exciting on paper
-
@crucial said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
this is the bit where, despite being in the 'Foster must go' camp (and one fo the founding members, I have to add Wayne Smith's perspective.
Smith in a radio interview I heard prior to the selection basically said you can't judge him on where he was, as people grow and develop. The clear undercurrent was that he brought a lot to the table, and the chiefs was a long time ago.
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
And this is the bit where the sensible decision is to say 'yep you know heaps, but we haven't seen you succeed as a head coach, so go away and sort that and come back next time'
Yes I think Razor was judged under harsher criteria than Foster, because he had a better record but may not have known the panel as well.
But also, we are talking about Foster yet there is a strong Canes influence in the selection of key positions (Ardie as captain, TJP on for so long, BB? Jordie at FB and wing) and while some or all those decisions have merit (not JB at wing and I do think they over-rely on TJP's experience), I wonder if Plumtree has a strong say (but he seems to have a solid career as assistant coach overseas?)
So perhaps the Foster team had more cachet than the Robertson team, I don't know. But I don't see the head coach record, and the Foster era seems more of the same as the Hansen era (perhaps others here see the Foster stamp on the team that he intended to make).
But I do wish we had someone in there with the nous of Wayne Smith.You do. He's called Tony Brown. A thinker. Someone who will be innovative. Forged in NZ, but with great experience of foreign cultures and playing styles. He's NZ's future IMO. He has to be involved at some point.
His involvement was dependent on JJ being there
That was a timing thing as well though. He had already given his word to JJ that he would support him with Japan and wasn't prepared to go back on his word.
A Razor JJ Tony Brown trio sounds exciting on paper
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
this is the bit where, despite being in the 'Foster must go' camp (and one fo the founding members, I have to add Wayne Smith's perspective.
Smith in a radio interview I heard prior to the selection basically said you can't judge him on where he was, as people grow and develop. The clear undercurrent was that he brought a lot to the table, and the chiefs was a long time ago.
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
And this is the bit where the sensible decision is to say 'yep you know heaps, but we haven't seen you succeed as a head coach, so go away and sort that and come back next time'
Yes I think Razor was judged under harsher criteria than Foster, because he had a better record but may not have known the panel as well.
But also, we are talking about Foster yet there is a strong Canes influence in the selection of key positions (Ardie as captain, TJP on for so long, BB? Jordie at FB and wing) and while some or all those decisions have merit (not JB at wing and I do think they over-rely on TJP's experience), I wonder if Plumtree has a strong say (but he seems to have a solid career as assistant coach overseas?)
So perhaps the Foster team had more cachet than the Robertson team, I don't know. But I don't see the head coach record, and the Foster era seems more of the same as the Hansen era (perhaps others here see the Foster stamp on the team that he intended to make).
But I do wish we had someone in there with the nous of Wayne Smith.You do. He's called Tony Brown. A thinker. Someone who will be innovative. Forged in NZ, but with great experience of foreign cultures and playing styles. He's NZ's future IMO. He has to be involved at some point.
His involvement was dependent on JJ being there
That was a timing thing as well though. He had already given his word to JJ that he would support him with Japan and wasn't prepared to go back on his word.
A Razor JJ Tony Brown trio sounds exciting on paper
Two of those will only accept the top job.
IMO, that was the biggest issue. If some of those guys had got together as a team they would have rolled Fozzie. In JJ's case, I'm sure it is about cash too, but JJ head with Razor and Brown would be fun to watch.
That's not to say that I think Fozzie's assistants are much chop either, but with Plums there there was a bit more international experience (IMO, they should have dropped Stormey, and Mooar should be nowhere near the team).
At the end of the day, if Razor had been willing to take on an Asst. role , my guess is he would have had one and be part of the AB coaching team.
-
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
this is the bit where, despite being in the 'Foster must go' camp (and one fo the founding members, I have to add Wayne Smith's perspective.
Smith in a radio interview I heard prior to the selection basically said you can't judge him on where he was, as people grow and develop. The clear undercurrent was that he brought a lot to the table, and the chiefs was a long time ago.
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
And this is the bit where the sensible decision is to say 'yep you know heaps, but we haven't seen you succeed as a head coach, so go away and sort that and come back next time'
Yes I think Razor was judged under harsher criteria than Foster, because he had a better record but may not have known the panel as well.
But also, we are talking about Foster yet there is a strong Canes influence in the selection of key positions (Ardie as captain, TJP on for so long, BB? Jordie at FB and wing) and while some or all those decisions have merit (not JB at wing and I do think they over-rely on TJP's experience), I wonder if Plumtree has a strong say (but he seems to have a solid career as assistant coach overseas?)
So perhaps the Foster team had more cachet than the Robertson team, I don't know. But I don't see the head coach record, and the Foster era seems more of the same as the Hansen era (perhaps others here see the Foster stamp on the team that he intended to make).
But I do wish we had someone in there with the nous of Wayne Smith.You do. He's called Tony Brown. A thinker. Someone who will be innovative. Forged in NZ, but with great experience of foreign cultures and playing styles. He's NZ's future IMO. He has to be involved at some point.
His involvement was dependent on JJ being there
That was a timing thing as well though. He had already given his word to JJ that he would support him with Japan and wasn't prepared to go back on his word.
A Razor JJ Tony Brown trio sounds exciting on paper
Two of those will only accept the top job.
IMO, that was the biggest issue. If some of those guys had got together as a team they would have rolled Fozzie. In JJ's case, I'm sure it is about cash too, but JJ head with Razor and Brown would be fun to watch.
That's not to say that I think Fozzie's assistants are much chop either, but with Plums there there was a bit more international experience (IMO, they should have dropped Stormey, and Mooar should be nowhere near the team).
At the end of the day, if Razor had been willing to take on an Asst. role , my guess is he would have had one and be part of the AB coaching team.
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
this is the bit where, despite being in the 'Foster must go' camp (and one fo the founding members, I have to add Wayne Smith's perspective.
Smith in a radio interview I heard prior to the selection basically said you can't judge him on where he was, as people grow and develop. The clear undercurrent was that he brought a lot to the table, and the chiefs was a long time ago.
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
And this is the bit where the sensible decision is to say 'yep you know heaps, but we haven't seen you succeed as a head coach, so go away and sort that and come back next time'
Yes I think Razor was judged under harsher criteria than Foster, because he had a better record but may not have known the panel as well.
But also, we are talking about Foster yet there is a strong Canes influence in the selection of key positions (Ardie as captain, TJP on for so long, BB? Jordie at FB and wing) and while some or all those decisions have merit (not JB at wing and I do think they over-rely on TJP's experience), I wonder if Plumtree has a strong say (but he seems to have a solid career as assistant coach overseas?)
So perhaps the Foster team had more cachet than the Robertson team, I don't know. But I don't see the head coach record, and the Foster era seems more of the same as the Hansen era (perhaps others here see the Foster stamp on the team that he intended to make).
But I do wish we had someone in there with the nous of Wayne Smith.You do. He's called Tony Brown. A thinker. Someone who will be innovative. Forged in NZ, but with great experience of foreign cultures and playing styles. He's NZ's future IMO. He has to be involved at some point.
His involvement was dependent on JJ being there
That was a timing thing as well though. He had already given his word to JJ that he would support him with Japan and wasn't prepared to go back on his word.
A Razor JJ Tony Brown trio sounds exciting on paper
Two of those will only accept the top job.
IMO, that was the biggest issue. If some of those guys had got together as a team they would have rolled Fozzie. In JJ's case, I'm sure it is about cash too, but JJ head with Razor and Brown would be fun to watch.
That's not to say that I think Fozzie's assistants are much chop either, but with Plums there there was a bit more international experience (IMO, they should have dropped Stormey, and Mooar should be nowhere near the team).
At the end of the day, if Razor had been willing to take on an Asst. role , my guess is he would have had one and be part of the AB coaching team.
But hasn't everyone been saying that Razor is not a specialist but is a strategist and man manager? That's top job stuff.
-
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
this is the bit where, despite being in the 'Foster must go' camp (and one fo the founding members, I have to add Wayne Smith's perspective.
Smith in a radio interview I heard prior to the selection basically said you can't judge him on where he was, as people grow and develop. The clear undercurrent was that he brought a lot to the table, and the chiefs was a long time ago.
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
And this is the bit where the sensible decision is to say 'yep you know heaps, but we haven't seen you succeed as a head coach, so go away and sort that and come back next time'
Yes I think Razor was judged under harsher criteria than Foster, because he had a better record but may not have known the panel as well.
But also, we are talking about Foster yet there is a strong Canes influence in the selection of key positions (Ardie as captain, TJP on for so long, BB? Jordie at FB and wing) and while some or all those decisions have merit (not JB at wing and I do think they over-rely on TJP's experience), I wonder if Plumtree has a strong say (but he seems to have a solid career as assistant coach overseas?)
So perhaps the Foster team had more cachet than the Robertson team, I don't know. But I don't see the head coach record, and the Foster era seems more of the same as the Hansen era (perhaps others here see the Foster stamp on the team that he intended to make).
But I do wish we had someone in there with the nous of Wayne Smith.You do. He's called Tony Brown. A thinker. Someone who will be innovative. Forged in NZ, but with great experience of foreign cultures and playing styles. He's NZ's future IMO. He has to be involved at some point.
His involvement was dependent on JJ being there
That was a timing thing as well though. He had already given his word to JJ that he would support him with Japan and wasn't prepared to go back on his word.
A Razor JJ Tony Brown trio sounds exciting on paper
Two of those will only accept the top job.
IMO, that was the biggest issue. If some of those guys had got together as a team they would have rolled Fozzie. In JJ's case, I'm sure it is about cash too, but JJ head with Razor and Brown would be fun to watch.
That's not to say that I think Fozzie's assistants are much chop either, but with Plums there there was a bit more international experience (IMO, they should have dropped Stormey, and Mooar should be nowhere near the team).
At the end of the day, if Razor had been willing to take on an Asst. role , my guess is he would have had one and be part of the AB coaching team.
But hasn't everyone been saying that Razor is not a specialist but is a strategist and man manager? That's top job stuff.
@crucial said in All Blacks 2021:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
this is the bit where, despite being in the 'Foster must go' camp (and one fo the founding members, I have to add Wayne Smith's perspective.
Smith in a radio interview I heard prior to the selection basically said you can't judge him on where he was, as people grow and develop. The clear undercurrent was that he brought a lot to the table, and the chiefs was a long time ago.
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
And this is the bit where the sensible decision is to say 'yep you know heaps, but we haven't seen you succeed as a head coach, so go away and sort that and come back next time'
Yes I think Razor was judged under harsher criteria than Foster, because he had a better record but may not have known the panel as well.
But also, we are talking about Foster yet there is a strong Canes influence in the selection of key positions (Ardie as captain, TJP on for so long, BB? Jordie at FB and wing) and while some or all those decisions have merit (not JB at wing and I do think they over-rely on TJP's experience), I wonder if Plumtree has a strong say (but he seems to have a solid career as assistant coach overseas?)
So perhaps the Foster team had more cachet than the Robertson team, I don't know. But I don't see the head coach record, and the Foster era seems more of the same as the Hansen era (perhaps others here see the Foster stamp on the team that he intended to make).
But I do wish we had someone in there with the nous of Wayne Smith.You do. He's called Tony Brown. A thinker. Someone who will be innovative. Forged in NZ, but with great experience of foreign cultures and playing styles. He's NZ's future IMO. He has to be involved at some point.
His involvement was dependent on JJ being there
That was a timing thing as well though. He had already given his word to JJ that he would support him with Japan and wasn't prepared to go back on his word.
A Razor JJ Tony Brown trio sounds exciting on paper
Two of those will only accept the top job.
IMO, that was the biggest issue. If some of those guys had got together as a team they would have rolled Fozzie. In JJ's case, I'm sure it is about cash too, but JJ head with Razor and Brown would be fun to watch.
That's not to say that I think Fozzie's assistants are much chop either, but with Plums there there was a bit more international experience (IMO, they should have dropped Stormey, and Mooar should be nowhere near the team).
At the end of the day, if Razor had been willing to take on an Asst. role , my guess is he would have had one and be part of the AB coaching team.
But hasn't everyone been saying that Razor is not a specialist but is a strategist and man manager? That's top job stuff.
Hansen and Henry worked well together, both were head coaches. But these two might be more equals in terms of experience/seniority/independence,
-
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
this is the bit where, despite being in the 'Foster must go' camp (and one fo the founding members, I have to add Wayne Smith's perspective.
Smith in a radio interview I heard prior to the selection basically said you can't judge him on where he was, as people grow and develop. The clear undercurrent was that he brought a lot to the table, and the chiefs was a long time ago.
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
And this is the bit where the sensible decision is to say 'yep you know heaps, but we haven't seen you succeed as a head coach, so go away and sort that and come back next time'
Yes I think Razor was judged under harsher criteria than Foster, because he had a better record but may not have known the panel as well.
But also, we are talking about Foster yet there is a strong Canes influence in the selection of key positions (Ardie as captain, TJP on for so long, BB? Jordie at FB and wing) and while some or all those decisions have merit (not JB at wing and I do think they over-rely on TJP's experience), I wonder if Plumtree has a strong say (but he seems to have a solid career as assistant coach overseas?)
So perhaps the Foster team had more cachet than the Robertson team, I don't know. But I don't see the head coach record, and the Foster era seems more of the same as the Hansen era (perhaps others here see the Foster stamp on the team that he intended to make).
But I do wish we had someone in there with the nous of Wayne Smith.@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
this is the bit where, despite being in the 'Foster must go' camp (and one fo the founding members, I have to add Wayne Smith's perspective.
Smith in a radio interview I heard prior to the selection basically said you can't judge him on where he was, as people grow and develop. The clear undercurrent was that he brought a lot to the table, and the chiefs was a long time ago.
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
And this is the bit where the sensible decision is to say 'yep you know heaps, but we haven't seen you succeed as a head coach, so go away and sort that and come back next time'
Yes I think Razor was judged under harsher criteria than Foster, because he had a better record but may not have known the panel as well.
But also, we are talking about Foster yet there is a strong Canes influence in the selection of key positions (Ardie as captain, TJP on for so long, BB? Jordie at FB and wing) and while some or all those decisions have merit (not JB at wing and I do think they over-rely on TJP's experience), I wonder if Plumtree has a strong say (but he seems to have a solid career as assistant coach overseas?)
So perhaps the Foster team had more cachet than the Robertson team, I don't know. But I don't see the head coach record, and the Foster era seems more of the same as the Hansen era (perhaps others here see the Foster stamp on the team that he intended to make).
But I do wish we had someone in there with the nous of Wayne Smith.Mate we always wish we had someone with the nous of Smith, geez coaches like him don't come along often!
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Jason O'Halloran is another lost name that doesn't get too many mentions. He's probably quite happy out of the politics and collecting a nice salary but like Steve Kerrigan, he's an ideas man.
@crucial he's def one I think should get involved, even if only a technical role, I've long been a fan of his since his days coaching Manawatu.
