All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour
-
@nta said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I'm conscious that France played a few games in the last few years where they've looked ace for the first half and imploded in the second
Well... Yeah..
Sublime from the French. Ntamack made RM look like a nobody.
@nta said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@nta said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I'm conscious that France played a few games in the last few years where they've looked ace for the first half and imploded in the second
Well... Yeah..
Sublime from the French. Ntamack made RM look like a nobody.
They did go off the boil. But then so did we.
Edit: bringing DH on to pass to the French when we had momentum was a masterstroke from the coaches, for example. -
Season breakdown...
- need to get props that do more than just scrum. what happened to the Joe Moody who tore it up at RWC15?
- Hookers - we're ok here. Have options. Sami T. is a beast. Coles will always compete. If Cody Taylor can find his form
- Locks... Retallick hasn't been the same since the injury prior to RWC'19 - Need to back in a young aggressive lock - Tupou, Josh Lord, whoever.
- Loosie mix all kinda fucked, what was once an area of strength, is confused, muddled and unsure who our best 3 and bench is.
- Aaron Smith... and then... who? Finlay, Brad W., Fakatava?
- Beaudy & Richie can lead us to RWC glory, but not if the forwards don't lay a platform. BB does a bit better, RM has regressed under Foster - here's hoping he can rebuild in Super Rugby
- Need some wingers - Caleb Clarke might be useful as a power wing if he can rediscover some form.
- ALB needs to be at 12. I don't rate Goodhue, but maybe we are actually missing him? Rieko should be 13. and 14. He's a weapon and has to be on the field. I think Will Jordan should definitely be one wing.
- Jordie is our 15.
- Players I don't ever want to see in big AB games again - Damien McKenzie, David Haviili, TJ Perenara.
- Coaching & coaching succession is fucked. Has been since SBW got the red card in the second Lions test. We showed the template in Game 1. and never went back to it. Everything off 9. Much like the French just played us tonight.
Posted it before, good news is South Africa showed things can be changed in 12months, bad news is I don't believe Foster can do it.
-
We have had bad years in the recent past, but this is somewhat different from them.
Usually bad years came about when we had just had a few older players retire, or we were trying new tactics. Sometimes when we tried to get too clever with "rotation". But it is a long time since we were beaten in consecutive games quite so convincingly by NH opposition. A very long time.
We had a bad year in 1998. It appeared to get better, then it didn't. And the coach took almost all the blame (anyone remember the "Guilty"cover of NZ Rugby World?)
The whole world knows how to beat us now (except Australia). And our coaches have no idea what to do.
-
Season breakdown...
- need to get props that do more than just scrum. what happened to the Joe Moody who tore it up at RWC15?
- Hookers - we're ok here. Have options. Sami T. is a beast. Coles will always compete. If Cody Taylor can find his form
- Locks... Retallick hasn't been the same since the injury prior to RWC'19 - Need to back in a young aggressive lock - Tupou, Josh Lord, whoever.
- Loosie mix all kinda fucked, what was once an area of strength, is confused, muddled and unsure who our best 3 and bench is.
- Aaron Smith... and then... who? Finlay, Brad W., Fakatava?
- Beaudy & Richie can lead us to RWC glory, but not if the forwards don't lay a platform. BB does a bit better, RM has regressed under Foster - here's hoping he can rebuild in Super Rugby
- Need some wingers - Caleb Clarke might be useful as a power wing if he can rediscover some form.
- ALB needs to be at 12. I don't rate Goodhue, but maybe we are actually missing him? Rieko should be 13. and 14. He's a weapon and has to be on the field. I think Will Jordan should definitely be one wing.
- Jordie is our 15.
- Players I don't ever want to see in big AB games again - Damien McKenzie, David Haviili, TJ Perenara.
- Coaching & coaching succession is fucked. Has been since SBW got the red card in the second Lions test. We showed the template in Game 1. and never went back to it. Everything off 9. Much like the French just played us tonight.
Posted it before, good news is South Africa showed things can be changed in 12months, bad news is I don't believe Foster can do it.
@westcoastie
TLDR: Foster out. -
@akan004 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
The first 20 of the 2nd half showed that the players aren't as bad as what they have shown over the last two weeks. We are just being so badly coached.
No amount of coaching can fix brain farts.
Contrast the ability of McCaw's men to wrest a victorious result from this squad. We have a squad that has Havili, Mo'unga and Bridge. We're carrying a loose forward spot for Ardie "highlights" Savea. Players out of form are ushered back into the All Blacks following a sojourn in Japan in TJP and BBBR.
Sam saying we need to learn how to play France in France? WTF
Foster's coaching group is too conservative and too loyal.
@antipodean although brain farts less likely if you aren't chasing the game and playing with a plan that works.
For me, whatever game plan they have, it doesn't seem we can play it, or the players aren't all in, which will cause players to make poor decisions.
I can cut them some slack for the long tour, and had they played well for 60 and got run over in the final quarter, but we weren't, we are just playing poorly.
All is not well, we need our team on the same page, but I can't see anything changing between now and next year, and 2022.
-
We have had bad years in the recent past, but this is somewhat different from them.
Usually bad years came about when we had just had a few older players retire, or we were trying new tactics. Sometimes when we tried to get too clever with "rotation". But it is a long time since we were beaten in consecutive games quite so convincingly by NH opposition. A very long time.
We had a bad year in 1998. It appeared to get better, then it didn't. And the coach took almost all the blame (anyone remember the "Guilty"cover of NZ Rugby World?)
The whole world knows how to beat us now (except Australia). And our coaches have no idea what to do.
@chester-draws said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
We have had bad years in the recent past, but this is somewhat different from them.
Usually bad years came about when we had just had a few older players retire, or we were trying new tactics. Sometimes when we tried to get too clever with "rotation". But it is a long time since we were beaten in consecutive games quite so convincingly by NH opposition. A very long time.
We had a bad year in 1998. It appeared to get better, then it didn't. And the coach took almost all the blame (anyone remember the "Guilty"cover of NZ Rugby World?)
The whole world knows how to beat us now (except Australia). And our coaches have no idea what to do.
New tactics would have been good. Even if we lost, trying new things would have been a tiny mercy.
-
-
-
-
-
@tim said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
As with the first test against SA, its the 3rd quarter when we use our big carriers up the middle that we look good.
That 20mins was the main positive
It showed the tactics we need to use next year. We have forwards that can get a roll on around the fringes. It's about using them correctly
Taukei’aho, Akira, Savea etc were excellent during that period. They got us back into the game.@duluth said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@tim said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
As with the first test against SA, its the 3rd quarter when we use our big carriers up the middle that we look good.
That 20mins was the main positive
It showed the tactics we need to use next year. We have forwards that can get a roll on around the fringes. It's about using them correctly
Taukei’aho, Akira, Savea etc were excellent during that period. They got us back into the game.We were looking good to take the match but then Ntamack did his business from the in goal and that was that.
-
it may surprise all on here but I am not a fan of our coaching tactics. But I don't think we should get personally nasty.
I still think our players are better than the way they played this season or the results, but we don't have the players of yore and the competition has got better. We just have to live with it and probably another poor 2 years.@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
it may surprise all on here but I am not a fan of our coaching tactics. But I don't think we should get personally nasty.
I still think our players are better than the way they played this season or the results, but we don't have the players of yore and the competition has got better. We just have to live with it and probably another poor 2 years.The really frustrating thing is that in parts tonite - 40-60 mins - they were great. But once things started to go wrong, so many players seemed to fall apart and they weren't the newer players either.
Discipline when they have momentum with them is really fragile which makes me wonder if there's a team mentality issue.
-
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@damo said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
One bad year when we lose 3 games and all of sudden the structures we have that have been so successful for so long are defective.?
Therein may lie the problem - the structures may no longer be free of considerable defects.
There seems a real lack of players who can keep their cool under pressure at Test level. Mo'unga and Havili may look like a million dollars at SR level but really, really struggle under pressure at Test level - as we have seen tonite and in other matches. Ball handling skills in the tight 5 seem to have dropped away as well.
But one year of mediocre results is not enough evidence to support the hypothesis. We are at the end of a long year, been away on a tour since god knows how long (since the 3rd Bledisloe in Perth) . In that tour we lost 3 times, and won 7.
No team in any sport can win every game every year every time.
The Green Bay Packers have the highest winning percentage in all games since 1921. Their win rate is 0.573.
@damo said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
The Green Bay Packers have the highest winning percentage in all games since 1921. Their win rate is 0.573.
They play in a league designed to help weak teams (draft order particularly, salary pricing, no relegation). International rugby is very different.
About the only way they are similar is that both sets have protected home areas.
-
@duluth said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Good idea. I'll add that in the next day or two
I love how we can see the teamsheets at any time, and from old AB games. Stat geeks like me love that we can see that stuff here as my memory is terrible at the best of times. Thanks for all these improvements.
-
@duluth said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@tim said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
As with the first test against SA, its the 3rd quarter when we use our big carriers up the middle that we look good.
That 20mins was the main positive
It showed the tactics we need to use next year. We have forwards that can get a roll on around the fringes. It's about using them correctly
Taukei’aho, Akira, Savea etc were excellent during that period. They got us back into the game.We were looking good to take the match but then Ntamack did his business from the in goal and that was that.
@majorrage said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@duluth said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@tim said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
As with the first test against SA, its the 3rd quarter when we use our big carriers up the middle that we look good.
That 20mins was the main positive
It showed the tactics we need to use next year. We have forwards that can get a roll on around the fringes. It's about using them correctly
Taukei’aho, Akira, Savea etc were excellent during that period. They got us back into the game.We were looking good to take the match but then Ntamack did his business from the in goal and that was that.
True
Trying to be as hopeful as possible - maybe that 20mins is similar to the 1994 Bledisloe match. A shit AB coach stumbles on the correct tactics for the current players
-
Haven’t seen the test and or read the thread, but congrats to France.
Tough year for the ABs. I look forward to 2022.
-
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
it may surprise all on here but I am not a fan of our coaching tactics. But I don't think we should get personally nasty.
I still think our players are better than the way they played this season or the results, but we don't have the players of yore and the competition has got better. We just have to live with it and probably another poor 2 years.The really frustrating thing is that in parts tonite - 40-60 mins - they were great. But once things started to go wrong, so many players seemed to fall apart and they weren't the newer players either.
Discipline when they have momentum with them is really fragile which makes me wonder if there's a team mentality issue.
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Discipline when they have momentum with them is really fragile which makes me wonder if there's a team mentality issue.
Wonder? I think it's pretty certain.
The issue is why.
-
@gt12 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Fozzie has a 75% win percentage as head coach..
If you took out the tests against Tonga, Fiji, USA and Italy, It'd be a 62.5% win rate. So it's an inflated 75% win percentage as well.
