All Blacks 2021
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@kiwibloke If he was such an excellent candidate, then surely it would be easy to point to some test match performances?
@tim said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke If he was such an excellent candidate, then surely it would be easy to point to some test match performances?
It doesn't make it easy to point out a particular test because he was always in & out of the team, which also makes it difficult for him to get a combo going with the other incumbent midfielder, but can remember him playing well in parts of tests... by watching any player you see if they have the goods to play in tests, he certainly did.
Since the days of Nonu/Smith we have always struggle to find a really good midfield combo, ALB/Goodhue midfield played a lot of tests together, but never had much to offer on attack. -
@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
Reckon Aaron Smith has always done too much box kicking, so gives away too much possession, would like to see him vary his game more with darting runs around the edges & grubbers etc.
While Smith may have some input on what he thinks the game plan should be, that lies squarely with the coaches. He doesn't box kick just because he wants to.
@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
Reckon Aaron Smith has always done too much box kicking, so gives away too much possession, would like to see him vary his game more with darting runs around the edges & grubbers etc.
While Smith may have some input on what he thinks the game plan should be, that lies squarely with the coaches. He doesn't box kick just because he wants to.
It might be a tactic from the coach - but Smith is the one out on the field, so it's on him to read a situation & take the best option available... kicking a lot of box kicks is thoughtless as I've mentioned before, the ball only travels about 30 metres downfield & the chances of regaining the ball in the air is less than 50/50 as the opposition are running towards the ball, also if he overweights the ball & it travels too far downfield it just gifts the other side possession.
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@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
Reckon Aaron Smith has always done too much box kicking, so gives away too much possession, would like to see him vary his game more with darting runs around the edges & grubbers etc.
While Smith may have some input on what he thinks the game plan should be, that lies squarely with the coaches. He doesn't box kick just because he wants to.
It might be a tactic from the coach - but Smith is the one out on the field, so it's on him to read a situation & take the best option available... kicking a lot of box kicks is thoughtless as I've mentioned before, the ball only travels about 30 metres downfield & the chances of regaining the ball in the air is less than 50/50 as the opposition are running towards the ball, also if he overweights the ball & it travels too far downfield it just gifts the other side possession.
@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
Reckon Aaron Smith has always done too much box kicking, so gives away too much possession, would like to see him vary his game more with darting runs around the edges & grubbers etc.
While Smith may have some input on what he thinks the game plan should be, that lies squarely with the coaches. He doesn't box kick just because he wants to.
It might be a tactic from the coach - but Smith is the one out on the field, so it's on him to read a situation & take the best option available... kicking a lot of box kicks is thoughtless as I've mentioned before, the ball only travels about 30 metres downfield & the chances of regaining the ball in the air is less than 50/50 as the opposition are running towards the ball, also if he overweights the ball & it travels too far downfield it just gifts the other side the ball.
Game plan is squarely on the coaches. If Smith is going outside of that then they won't be happy. If he's not performing the game plan to their standard, then they won't be happy (and will no doubt work on it). Smith isn't just going out there and doing whatever he wants just on a whim.
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@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
Reckon Aaron Smith has always done too much box kicking, so gives away too much possession, would like to see him vary his game more with darting runs around the edges & grubbers etc.
While Smith may have some input on what he thinks the game plan should be, that lies squarely with the coaches. He doesn't box kick just because he wants to.
It might be a tactic from the coach - but Smith is the one out on the field, so it's on him to read a situation & take the best option available... kicking a lot of box kicks is thoughtless as I've mentioned before, the ball only travels about 30 metres downfield & the chances of regaining the ball in the air is less than 50/50 as the opposition are running towards the ball, also if he overweights the ball & it travels too far downfield it just gifts the other side the ball.
Game plan is squarely on the coaches. If Smith is going outside of that then they won't be happy. If he's not performing the game plan to their standard, then they won't be happy (and will no doubt work on it). Smith isn't just going out there and doing whatever he wants just on a whim.
@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
Reckon Aaron Smith has always done too much box kicking, so gives away too much possession, would like to see him vary his game more with darting runs around the edges & grubbers etc.
While Smith may have some input on what he thinks the game plan should be, that lies squarely with the coaches. He doesn't box kick just because he wants to.
It might be a tactic from the coach - but Smith is the one out on the field, so it's on him to read a situation & take the best option available... kicking a lot of box kicks is thoughtless as I've mentioned before, the ball only travels about 30 metres downfield & the chances of regaining the ball in the air is less than 50/50 as the opposition are running towards the ball, also if he overweights the ball & it travels too far downfield it just gifts the other side the ball.
Game plan is squarely on the coaches. If Smith is going outside of that then they won't be happy. If he's not performing the game plan to their standard, then they won't be happy (and will no doubt work on it). Smith isn't just going out there and doing whatever he wants just on a whim.
As said the players have to think for themselves when on the field & take the best option available, how is that a whim ? it's smart rugby... anyway, over box kicking is a dumb plan/tactic as I mentioned in detail.
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@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
Reckon Aaron Smith has always done too much box kicking, so gives away too much possession, would like to see him vary his game more with darting runs around the edges & grubbers etc.
While Smith may have some input on what he thinks the game plan should be, that lies squarely with the coaches. He doesn't box kick just because he wants to.
It might be a tactic from the coach - but Smith is the one out on the field, so it's on him to read a situation & take the best option available... kicking a lot of box kicks is thoughtless as I've mentioned before, the ball only travels about 30 metres downfield & the chances of regaining the ball in the air is less than 50/50 as the opposition are running towards the ball, also if he overweights the ball & it travels too far downfield it just gifts the other side the ball.
Game plan is squarely on the coaches. If Smith is going outside of that then they won't be happy. If he's not performing the game plan to their standard, then they won't be happy (and will no doubt work on it). Smith isn't just going out there and doing whatever he wants just on a whim.
As said the players have to think for themselves when on the field & take the best option available, how is that a whim ? it's smart rugby... anyway, over box kicking is a dumb plan/tactic as I mentioned in detail.
@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
over box kicking is a dumb plan/tactic as I mentioned in detail
Definitely, the coaches need to come up with something a lot better than this outdated tactic and bring it into play. Smith is doing as he judges fit, within the game plan. It's ludicrous to suggest the players just go out there and do whatever they like.
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@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
over box kicking is a dumb plan/tactic as I mentioned in detail
Definitely, the coaches need to come up with something a lot better than this outdated tactic and bring it into play. Smith is doing as he judges fit, within the game plan. It's ludicrous to suggest the players just go out there and do whatever they like.
@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
over box kicking is a dumb plan/tactic as I mentioned in detail
Definitely, the coaches need to come up with something a lot better than this outdated tactic and bring it into play. Smith is doing as he judges fit, within the game plan. It's ludicrous to suggest the players just go out there and do whatever they like.
Have you ever played any sport at all ? it's clearly not about just doing what you like, it's about thinking smartly through different situations & taking the right option... & if you put a plan in place it has to be an intelligent one, otherwise it's a waste of time.
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https://c.tenor.com/LLLJYVQJNVAAAAAM/chefs-kiss-french-chef.gif
The entertainment of this thread will be complete for me if the next 'argument' is that we need a better halfback than Aaron Smith.
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2021:
https://c.tenor.com/LLLJYVQJNVAAAAAM/chefs-kiss-french-chef.gif
The entertainment of this thread will be complete for me if the next 'argument' is that we need a better halfback than Aaron Smith.
The only edge Smith has over our other halfbacks is his fast flat pass... he's getting on a bit so we well have to probably look for another starting halfback after the RWC... is that chef available to take over from Smith :beaming_face_with_smiling_eyes:
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@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
over box kicking is a dumb plan/tactic as I mentioned in detail
Definitely, the coaches need to come up with something a lot better than this outdated tactic and bring it into play. Smith is doing as he judges fit, within the game plan. It's ludicrous to suggest the players just go out there and do whatever they like.
Have you ever played any sport at all ? it's clearly not about just doing what you like, it's about thinking smartly through different situations & taking the right option... & if you put a plan in place it has to be an intelligent one, otherwise it's a waste of time.
@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
over box kicking is a dumb plan/tactic as I mentioned in detail
Definitely, the coaches need to come up with something a lot better than this outdated tactic and bring it into play. Smith is doing as he judges fit, within the game plan. It's ludicrous to suggest the players just go out there and do whatever they like.
Have you ever played any sport at all ? it's clearly not about just doing what you like, it's about thinking smartly through different situations & taking the right option... & if you put a plan in place it has to be an intelligent one, otherwise it's a waste of time.
No, never played sport at all! Unless you count being the main target in dodgeball during PE back at school. I've still got bruises to this day. Prolly because I'm still at school.
Anyway, English teacher has asked me to write up a review about a book, but I've decided my time would be better used writing out and handing in my maths times tables. I'll probably get an A on this assignment I reckon, teachers love it when you show initiative and throw instruction out the door.
Shit I'm more like Smith than I thought.
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@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
over box kicking is a dumb plan/tactic as I mentioned in detail
Definitely, the coaches need to come up with something a lot better than this outdated tactic and bring it into play. Smith is doing as he judges fit, within the game plan. It's ludicrous to suggest the players just go out there and do whatever they like.
Have you ever played any sport at all ? it's clearly not about just doing what you like, it's about thinking smartly through different situations & taking the right option... & if you put a plan in place it has to be an intelligent one, otherwise it's a waste of time.
No, never played sport at all! Unless you count being the main target in dodgeball during PE back at school. I've still got bruises to this day. Prolly because I'm still at school.
Anyway, English teacher has asked me to write up a review about a book, but I've decided my time would be better used writing out and handing in my maths times tables. I'll probably get an A on this assignment I reckon, teachers love it when you show initiative and throw instruction out the door.
Shit I'm more like Smith than I thought.
@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
over box kicking is a dumb plan/tactic as I mentioned in detail
Definitely, the coaches need to come up with something a lot better than this outdated tactic and bring it into play. Smith is doing as he judges fit, within the game plan. It's ludicrous to suggest the players just go out there and do whatever they like.
Have you ever played any sport at all ? it's clearly not about just doing what you like, it's about thinking smartly through different situations & taking the right option... & if you put a plan in place it has to be an intelligent one, otherwise it's a waste of time.
No, never played sport at all!
Sounds about right.
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@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
over box kicking is a dumb plan/tactic as I mentioned in detail
Definitely, the coaches need to come up with something a lot better than this outdated tactic and bring it into play. Smith is doing as he judges fit, within the game plan. It's ludicrous to suggest the players just go out there and do whatever they like.
Have you ever played any sport at all ? it's clearly not about just doing what you like, it's about thinking smartly through different situations & taking the right option... & if you put a plan in place it has to be an intelligent one, otherwise it's a waste of time.
No, never played sport at all!
Sounds about right.
@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
over box kicking is a dumb plan/tactic as I mentioned in detail
Definitely, the coaches need to come up with something a lot better than this outdated tactic and bring it into play. Smith is doing as he judges fit, within the game plan. It's ludicrous to suggest the players just go out there and do whatever they like.
Have you ever played any sport at all ? it's clearly not about just doing what you like, it's about thinking smartly through different situations & taking the right option... & if you put a plan in place it has to be an intelligent one, otherwise it's a waste of time.
No, never played sport at all!
Sounds about right.
I forgot about the last time I played any semi decent rugby back in NZ where our halfback was some young pretender, Wiri Peepu or something. He was pretty shit so I'm probably not well placed for comment on halfback play.
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@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
over box kicking is a dumb plan/tactic as I mentioned in detail
Definitely, the coaches need to come up with something a lot better than this outdated tactic and bring it into play. Smith is doing as he judges fit, within the game plan. It's ludicrous to suggest the players just go out there and do whatever they like.
Have you ever played any sport at all ? it's clearly not about just doing what you like, it's about thinking smartly through different situations & taking the right option... & if you put a plan in place it has to be an intelligent one, otherwise it's a waste of time.
No, never played sport at all!
Sounds about right.
I forgot about the last time I played any semi decent rugby back in NZ where our halfback was some young pretender, Wiri Peepu or something. He was pretty shit so I'm probably not well placed for comment on halfback play.
@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
over box kicking is a dumb plan/tactic as I mentioned in detail
Definitely, the coaches need to come up with something a lot better than this outdated tactic and bring it into play. Smith is doing as he judges fit, within the game plan. It's ludicrous to suggest the players just go out there and do whatever they like.
Have you ever played any sport at all ? it's clearly not about just doing what you like, it's about thinking smartly through different situations & taking the right option... & if you put a plan in place it has to be an intelligent one, otherwise it's a waste of time.
No, never played sport at all!
Sounds about right.
I forgot about the last time I played any semi decent rugby back in NZ where our halfback was some young pretender, Wiri Peepu or something. He was pretty shit so I'm probably not well placed for comment on halfback play.
Give me a few of your comments about halfback play then, as long as it's not about bloody box kicking :winking_face:
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@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
over box kicking is a dumb plan/tactic as I mentioned in detail
Definitely, the coaches need to come up with something a lot better than this outdated tactic and bring it into play. Smith is doing as he judges fit, within the game plan. It's ludicrous to suggest the players just go out there and do whatever they like.
Have you ever played any sport at all ? it's clearly not about just doing what you like, it's about thinking smartly through different situations & taking the right option... & if you put a plan in place it has to be an intelligent one, otherwise it's a waste of time.
No, never played sport at all!
Sounds about right.
I forgot about the last time I played any semi decent rugby back in NZ where our halfback was some young pretender, Wiri Peepu or something. He was pretty shit so I'm probably not well placed for comment on halfback play.
Give me a few of your comments about halfback play then, as long as it's not about bloody box kicking :winking_face:
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@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke halfbacks are yappy dickheads who ignore reality.
hahaha, fair point.
Slightly changed my username to the same one I have on another rugby forum.
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I agree the players need to be able to think for themselves, but if the coaches have a specific gameplan (however moronic) which maybe includes targeting certain players in certain areas of the field, then they are going that route more often than not, even when not on or the lower pay-off option.
Especially if they are trying to bed in a new pattern overall, otherwise what's the point of them having a gameplan, and then we sit here, beer in hand on the couch bitching about no plan b, when plan a, that is just wing it, isn't working.
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I agree the players need to be able to think for themselves, but if the coaches have a specific gameplan (however moronic) which maybe includes targeting certain players in certain areas of the field, then they are going that route more often than not, even when not on or the lower pay-off option.
Especially if they are trying to bed in a new pattern overall, otherwise what's the point of them having a gameplan, and then we sit here, beer in hand on the couch bitching about no plan b, when plan a, that is just wing it, isn't working.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2021:
I agree the players need to be able to think for themselves, but if the coaches have a specific gameplan (however moronic) which maybe includes targeting certain players in certain areas of the field, then they are going that route more often than not, even when not on or the lower pay-off option.
Especially if they are trying to bed in a new pattern overall, otherwise what's the point of them having a gameplan, and then we sit here, beer in hand on the couch bitching about no plan b, when plan a, that is just wing it, isn't working.
I doubt the coaches ever have a real strict game plan, they will I know tell players after analysing games that there is a weakness here or there, but from what I have ever heard the players say, the coaches will lay out where they see strengths and weaknesses and mostly (I know it has been case in ABs) the senior playing group them do a lot of refining. Even in Chiefs for instance ALB will be the one doing a lot of getting timing of defence etc at training. I recall Tana Umaga saying that senior players suggested that coaches weren't even in dressing room in last while before tests, as the players preferred to concentrate on getting their plans finalised, also what Captain's run is for. Coaches are obviously very important and etc, but on game day probably more important at halftime to give an overview of what they can see going right or wrong. I hope we never get to where players are automatons and need to be told exactly when and where to kick etc, and forget how to play heads up rugby!
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2021:
I agree the players need to be able to think for themselves, but if the coaches have a specific gameplan (however moronic) which maybe includes targeting certain players in certain areas of the field, then they are going that route more often than not, even when not on or the lower pay-off option.
Especially if they are trying to bed in a new pattern overall, otherwise what's the point of them having a gameplan, and then we sit here, beer in hand on the couch bitching about no plan b, when plan a, that is just wing it, isn't working.
I doubt the coaches ever have a real strict game plan, they will I know tell players after analysing games that there is a weakness here or there, but from what I have ever heard the players say, the coaches will lay out where they see strengths and weaknesses and mostly (I know it has been case in ABs) the senior playing group them do a lot of refining. Even in Chiefs for instance ALB will be the one doing a lot of getting timing of defence etc at training. I recall Tana Umaga saying that senior players suggested that coaches weren't even in dressing room in last while before tests, as the players preferred to concentrate on getting their plans finalised, also what Captain's run is for. Coaches are obviously very important and etc, but on game day probably more important at halftime to give an overview of what they can see going right or wrong. I hope we never get to where players are automatons and need to be told exactly when and where to kick etc, and forget how to play heads up rugby!
@dan54 said in All Blacks 2021:
forget how to play heads up rugby
TBH I think thats exactly where we are at the moment, players are not seeing opportunities, or if they are, unable to exploit them for whatever reason.
This has to come back to coaching, belief in the systems and structure they are trying to play, and they will have a game plan, they will have free reign to play it as they see it while still in the parameters of the overall plan to breakdown the opposition, but thats the problem, we arent, the French test was a prime example of it.
Wayne Smith spoke of the red head blue head (I think those were the colours) with blue being cool/calm/calculated, red being, well, not those, I think we are too much red, not able to see opportunities, and make poor decisions, and instead of reverting to a more simplistic rugby we keep doing the same things, making the same mistakes.
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@dan54 said in All Blacks 2021:
forget how to play heads up rugby
TBH I think thats exactly where we are at the moment, players are not seeing opportunities, or if they are, unable to exploit them for whatever reason.
This has to come back to coaching, belief in the systems and structure they are trying to play, and they will have a game plan, they will have free reign to play it as they see it while still in the parameters of the overall plan to breakdown the opposition, but thats the problem, we arent, the French test was a prime example of it.
Wayne Smith spoke of the red head blue head (I think those were the colours) with blue being cool/calm/calculated, red being, well, not those, I think we are too much red, not able to see opportunities, and make poor decisions, and instead of reverting to a more simplistic rugby we keep doing the same things, making the same mistakes.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2021:
@dan54 said in All Blacks 2021:
forget how to play heads up rugby
TBH I think thats exactly where we are at the moment, players are not seeing opportunities, or if they are, unable to exploit them for whatever reason.
This has to come back to coaching, belief in the systems and structure they are trying to play, and they will have a game plan, they will have free reign to play it as they see it while still in the parameters of the overall plan to breakdown the opposition, but thats the problem, we arent, the French test was a prime example of it.
Wayne Smith spoke of the red head blue head (I think those were the colours) with blue being cool/calm/calculated, red being, well, not those, I think we are too much red, not able to see opportunities, and make poor decisions, and instead of reverting to a more simplistic rugby we keep doing the same things, making the same mistakes.
Yeah, have to get our system/structures right, especially in defence, try & play in the oppositions half more than they play in ours & execute our set pieces well, then the players just play what's in front of them with good decision making & executing accurately... our forwards are not doing the hard yakka when we have possession going through phases, so our backs are not getting that much good front foot ball to attack with.
Exactly, it's about doing the basics well, not overcomplicating things & each player focusing on their own role, then you perform well as a team... really peeved me off when we played a shocker against Ireland, then repeated the same stupid mistakes against France, pointless if you don't learn from your mistakes.
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@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke halfbacks are yappy dickheads who ignore reality.
Wonder if there are any half backs posting on this thread?
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God I was waiting for the “smith is no better than TJP chat to start”
The smith box kicks too much is so 2017, that hasn’t been a problem for years, yes he went through a phase where he was kicking away possession but like the pro he is he took that criticism and changed, you would be hard pressed to see him box kick now without at least one chaser knowing exactly what’s going on and the rest of the line coming up for the counter which means it is very much the game plan
