All Blacks 2021
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@frank said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
Ian Foster never coached overseas and he has walked into the All Black head coaching job.
Bloody good point mate.
Shit, just another good reason for me to hate Foster.The real clincher for me was discovering Fozzie is also a conservative Christian.
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@frank said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
Ian Foster never coached overseas and he has walked into the All Black head coaching job.
Bloody good point mate.
Shit, just another good reason for me to hate Foster.The real clincher for me was discovering Fozzie is also a conservative Christian.
Quite a few of the players are religious too, should we “hate” them too, or is your bigotry only directed at the coach?
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@frank said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
Ian Foster never coached overseas and he has walked into the All Black head coaching job.
Bloody good point mate.
Shit, just another good reason for me to hate Foster.The real clincher for me was discovering Fozzie is also a conservative Christian.
I don't begrudge people their beliefs mate.
This post is deleted! -
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@frank said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
Ian Foster never coached overseas and he has walked into the All Black head coaching job.
Bloody good point mate.
Shit, just another good reason for me to hate Foster.The real clincher for me was discovering Fozzie is also a conservative Christian.
I don't begrudge people their beliefs mate.
@frank said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@frank said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
Ian Foster never coached overseas and he has walked into the All Black head coaching job.
Bloody good point mate.
Shit, just another good reason for me to hate Foster.The real clincher for me was discovering Fozzie is also a conservative Christian.
I don't begrudge people their beliefs mate.
Sure, but Foster's a guy in an extremely high profile & important position, and his beliefs certainly aren't reflective of an evidence-based approach, which is imperative in any high performance sporting environment.
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this thread was more fun before you all scared off @NZbloke
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
this thread was more fun before you all scared off @NZbloke
You had a small part to play in that too. :face_with_raised_eyebrow:
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
this thread was more fun before you all scared off @NZbloke
You had a small part to play in that too. :face_with_raised_eyebrow:
@chris no idea what youre talking about
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@frank said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@frank said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
Ian Foster never coached overseas and he has walked into the All Black head coaching job.
Bloody good point mate.
Shit, just another good reason for me to hate Foster.The real clincher for me was discovering Fozzie is also a conservative Christian.
I don't begrudge people their beliefs mate.
Sure, but Foster's a guy in an extremely high profile & important position, and his beliefs certainly aren't reflective of an evidence-based approach, which is imperative in any high performance sporting environment.
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@frank said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@frank said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
Ian Foster never coached overseas and he has walked into the All Black head coaching job.
Bloody good point mate.
Shit, just another good reason for me to hate Foster.The real clincher for me was discovering Fozzie is also a conservative Christian.
I don't begrudge people their beliefs mate.
Sure, but Foster's a guy in an extremely high profile & important position, and his beliefs certainly aren't reflective of an evidence-based approach, which is imperative in any high performance sporting environment.
I think you'd be hard pushed to find too many coaches around that don't follow some kinda faith system.
Razor is clearly Buddhist.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
Even at it's base, this thread is scathing after a couple of lost games, one to a very late penalty (which i don't see as any different to winning by a late penalty really), one we were a marginal forward pass from winning, and one where the scoreboard was bad, but i doubt i was alone in thinking we would win at about the 3/4 mark. We're at peak "the ABs should win by 2 scores every test. And have better forwards and better backs than the opposition" which is never going to happen in professional rugby (aside from a couple of freak teams we have put out).
I think you're missing the point a little.
Most aren't concerned with losses, but more specifically, our directionless, helter-skelter style under Foster.
It's more the manner of the losses - here's an excellent analysis of where we're at currently:
Squidge is always good value, but I think he's particularly spot on in this one. A fair bit of it focuses on Ireland (fair enough too), but the most relevant part is from approx. minute 12-15 where he calls out that we essentially rely on individual brilliance rather than any discernable attacking plan, & calls us the 'least imaginatively coached' team aside from Canada...
He's also right in saying Ireland didn't even have to play at their absolute peak to tear us apart this time around.
There does not seem to be anything remotely strategic about how the All Blacks play currently, where is the coaching?
They allow the other team some possession, tackle ferociously and then feed off the scraps with often brilliant unstructured play.
Take a look at the Ireland game. They weren't organized the phase before the phase, always playing one step behind as players overcommitted to rucks they needn't have, leaving players short elsewhere.
The ball was often static, sent to a runner standing still, and that runner failed to initiate any forward momentum for others to play off. They couldn't play direct and keep the defense honest as players shied away and fell away sideways with their passes.
The ball carriers lacked options inside and out, or just disregarded them, as no one seemed to be able to anticipate support lines. There were no tip balls or well-worked offloads.
One-out runners were easily gobbled up by both Ireland and France, it was all so predictable. The mechanics of it all were dysfunctional and the timing of everything lacked cohesion.
Of most concern was a lack of desire to take it to the line until the final ball carrier had the ball, and no choice. The attack and ball-in-hand play across both tests lacked many basic aspects required at this level.
Contrast that with Ireland's phase play below, where their organized structure possessed all of those features.
Joe Schmidt would fire a rocket up this team if he was on Foster's staff overseeing this standard of attack, and quite frankly by all accounts it looks like they need him as the structured play is anything but clinical..
Under Ian Foster, it seems we're tactically clueless & ineffective against more organized sides, because (as Squidge highlighted in the video above) our game plan is heavily reliant on the individual brilliance of our personal..
There's a complete lack of identifiable structure to our team, we have cluttered and confused forward orientation, an outdated & extremely one dimensional attacking system, serious lack of cohesion & alignment between players on both attack and defense, there is very little co-ordination to our forward play & the breakdown has been a disordered mess of epic proportions..
I wouldn't care so much about the losses if we were playing intelligent rugby or showing any indications of improvement.
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
Most aren't concerned with losses, but more specifically, our directionless, helter-skelter style under Foster.
Really? My impression is most people are way more concerned about the slide in AB performances in the last 6 years and trying to understand the causes rather than concentrate simplistically on the last 2 years and offering equally simplistic, magic-bullet solutions.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
Or those who have convinced themselves they know the inner workings of the AB set up, know what is happening, who is responsible for what, and why the people inside it are doing what they are doing. Or, most importantly, why people are being given a particular role.
The issue with bad coaches in good teams is the rot is slow and it takes a long time to notice because the old systems from the good coaches (wink,wink Wayne Smith, Hansen...) are still in the player's minds but they eventually forget, the slide begins, the losses come and you forget how to win. South Africa had recently been there, experienced that with Coetzee and were pretty fortunate that they had a miracle (in Rassie) on speed dial.
I mentioned it when Foster was initially appointed. Human relations 101, it's even in a NZ written university text book; the highest predictor of positive future performance is past positive performance in a similar role. It's about 70% accurate, other predictors are not much more these 50%, or not much better than chance no matter what product and a recruiting firm would want to sell you (beware of their hype as they're selling their product).
The evidence points to the fact that Foster's past record as head coach of a professional rugby team is dire.
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
Human relations 101, it's even in a NZ written university text book; the highest predictor of positive future performance is past positive performance in a similar role. It's about 70% accurate, other predictors are not much more these 50%, or not much better than chance no matter what product and a recruiting firm would want to sell you (beware of their hype as they're selling their product).
In decades of business and improving business performance, I've never come across a HR person who deals and leads with personal or team performance - that's always done by line managers and specialist performance people.
And equally, the idea that you can judge a persons suitability or likely performance for a role solely or mainly by their past performance is utter bollocks as it doesn't take the slightest account of environmental factors.
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@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks 2021:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
by all means, double down
we almost won that game.
Sounds like a Welsh fan, not an AB one.
1953 was awhile back boyo
@mn5 said in All Blacks 2021:
@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks 2021:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
by all means, double down
we almost won that game.
Sounds like a Welsh fan, not an AB one.
1953 was awhile back boyo
According to Fitzy, it still hurts. Something he picked up from his dad apparently
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@frank said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@frank said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
Ian Foster never coached overseas and he has walked into the All Black head coaching job.
Bloody good point mate.
Shit, just another good reason for me to hate Foster.The real clincher for me was discovering Fozzie is also a conservative Christian.
I don't begrudge people their beliefs mate.
Sure, but Foster's a guy in an extremely high profile & important position, and his beliefs certainly aren't reflective of an evidence-based approach, which is imperative in any high performance sporting environment.
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@frank said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@frank said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
Ian Foster never coached overseas and he has walked into the All Black head coaching job.
Bloody good point mate.
Shit, just another good reason for me to hate Foster.The real clincher for me was discovering Fozzie is also a conservative Christian.
I don't begrudge people their beliefs mate.
Sure, but Foster's a guy in an extremely high profile & important position, and his beliefs certainly aren't reflective of an evidence-based approach, which is imperative in any high performance sporting environment.
Interested in your thoughts on Vince Lombardi - widely regarded as the finest high performance team sports coach ever.
Each day on his way to work for the Green Bay Packers, Lombardi would stop at St. Willebrord Church and "offer a prayer in case of unexpected death: 'My God, if I am to die today, or suddenly at any time, I wish to receive this Communion as my viaticum ... '".[127] He regularly attended Sunday Mass at Resurrection Church in the Allouez neighborhood of Green Bay's southeast side, always sitting with his wife in the middle of the ninth pew.[ -
@kiwibloke Yeah, I agree and see your angle, but he had a lot more of a role to play at domestic level and the intensity of Super Rugby is miles down on test level, where there is a lot less focus on the defensive side of the game, hence why you see Laumape hugging the touchline, popping up at first receiver and showing more of short kicking game, and lets not forget, last season he and Jordie Barrett were the only big names in the backline, hence the need for him to offer more in attack.
We never really saw this from him at test level however as his lack of size would see him get monstered by bigger defences at the highest level with his power game that he loved, similar to Sam Tuitupou of years gone by, and there's less room to move for him at the highest level due to a higher focus on the defensive side of the game as well as the darker arts.
So yes, he was more effective at domestic level with more time and room to move, but ineffective at the highest level with defences quickly up in his face, nulifying his power running to go with his small stature.
@african-monkey said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke Yeah, I agree and see your angle, but he had a lot more of a role to play at domestic level and the intensity of Super Rugby is miles down on test level, where there is a lot less focus on the defensive side of the game, hence why you see Laumape hugging the touchline, popping up at first receiver and showing more of short kicking game, and lets not forget, last season he and Jordie Barrett were the only big names in the backline, hence the need for him to offer more in attack.
We never really saw this from him at test level however as his lack of size would see him get monstered by bigger defences at the highest level with his power game that he loved, similar to Sam Tuitupou of years gone by, and there's less room to move for him at the highest level due to a higher focus on the defensive side of the game as well as the darker arts.
So yes, he was more effective at domestic level with more time and room to move, but ineffective at the highest level with defences quickly up in his face, nulifying his power running to go with his small stature.
Did Sammy T get monstered at test level? I honestly don't remember that.
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@frank said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@frank said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
Ian Foster never coached overseas and he has walked into the All Black head coaching job.
Bloody good point mate.
Shit, just another good reason for me to hate Foster.The real clincher for me was discovering Fozzie is also a conservative Christian.
I don't begrudge people their beliefs mate.
Sure, but Foster's a guy in an extremely high profile & important position, and his beliefs certainly aren't reflective of an evidence-based approach, which is imperative in any high performance sporting environment.
I think you'd be hard pushed to find too many coaches around that don't follow some kinda faith system.
Razor is clearly Buddhist.
@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@frank said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@frank said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
Ian Foster never coached overseas and he has walked into the All Black head coaching job.
Bloody good point mate.
Shit, just another good reason for me to hate Foster.The real clincher for me was discovering Fozzie is also a conservative Christian.
I don't begrudge people their beliefs mate.
Sure, but Foster's a guy in an extremely high profile & important position, and his beliefs certainly aren't reflective of an evidence-based approach, which is imperative in any high performance sporting environment.
I think you'd be hard pushed to find too many coaches around that don't follow some kinda faith system.
Razor is clearly Buddhist.
With his whirling dance moves I would have thought Sufism...
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@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@frank said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@frank said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
Ian Foster never coached overseas and he has walked into the All Black head coaching job.
Bloody good point mate.
Shit, just another good reason for me to hate Foster.The real clincher for me was discovering Fozzie is also a conservative Christian.
I don't begrudge people their beliefs mate.
Sure, but Foster's a guy in an extremely high profile & important position, and his beliefs certainly aren't reflective of an evidence-based approach, which is imperative in any high performance sporting environment.
I think you'd be hard pushed to find too many coaches around that don't follow some kinda faith system.
Razor is clearly Buddhist.
With his whirling dance moves I would have thought Sufism...
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@frank said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@frank said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
Ian Foster never coached overseas and he has walked into the All Black head coaching job.
Bloody good point mate.
Shit, just another good reason for me to hate Foster.The real clincher for me was discovering Fozzie is also a conservative Christian.
I don't begrudge people their beliefs mate.
Sure, but Foster's a guy in an extremely high profile & important position, and his beliefs certainly aren't reflective of an evidence-based approach, which is imperative in any high performance sporting environment.
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@frank said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@frank said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
Ian Foster never coached overseas and he has walked into the All Black head coaching job.
Bloody good point mate.
Shit, just another good reason for me to hate Foster.The real clincher for me was discovering Fozzie is also a conservative Christian.
I don't begrudge people their beliefs mate.
Sure, but Foster's a guy in an extremely high profile & important position, and his beliefs certainly aren't reflective of an evidence-based approach, which is imperative in any high performance sporting environment.
Today I learned that scientists can't be religious! Seriously, one of the dumbest criticisms of a coach on this board.
I'm an atheist, but like Frank I don't begrudge people their faith. And the fact is we live in a Christian country, even if it's impact is lower than in the past. If you start excluding religious people from sport teams you aren't going to be left with many people.
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@frank said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@frank said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
Ian Foster never coached overseas and he has walked into the All Black head coaching job.
Bloody good point mate.
Shit, just another good reason for me to hate Foster.The real clincher for me was discovering Fozzie is also a conservative Christian.
I don't begrudge people their beliefs mate.
Sure, but Foster's a guy in an extremely high profile & important position, and his beliefs certainly aren't reflective of an evidence-based approach, which is imperative in any high performance sporting environment.
I think you'd be hard pushed to find too many coaches around that don't follow some kinda faith system.
Razor is clearly Buddhist.
@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@frank said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@frank said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
Ian Foster never coached overseas and he has walked into the All Black head coaching job.
Bloody good point mate.
Shit, just another good reason for me to hate Foster.The real clincher for me was discovering Fozzie is also a conservative Christian.
I don't begrudge people their beliefs mate.
Sure, but Foster's a guy in an extremely high profile & important position, and his beliefs certainly aren't reflective of an evidence-based approach, which is imperative in any high performance sporting environment.
I think you'd be hard pushed to find too many coaches around that don't follow some kinda faith system.
Razor is clearly Buddhist.
doesnt he have a comb over cunning bugger is trying to hide it from us
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@Victor-Meldrew
I have read your posts on this thread and I do agree there are more things wrong with AB rugby than just Foster and you make some really valid points on that.What is your opinion on Foster as a coach do you rate him or not really?.
Genuine question being asked here. -
No need to over-think this people. Where's Razor.
The current setup is clueless -
@Victor-Meldrew
I have read your posts on this thread and I do agree there are more things wrong with AB rugby than just Foster and you make some really valid points on that.What is your opinion on Foster as a coach do you rate him or not really?.
Genuine question being asked here.@chris said in All Blacks 2021:
@Victor-Meldrew
I have read your posts on this thread and I do agree there are more things wrong with AB rugby than just Foster and you make some really valid points on that.That's obviously true when you look at puzzle palace's contributions to its Trans Ta$man neighbour and securing investment. That aside, we know that his current team wasn't Foster's first choice. It appears his strength lies in culture and he's relying on the expertise of his coaches technically. The problem is that at least one of them isn't up to the task (I'm looking at you Mooar). So if the review doesn't address this paucity in competence in the staff, and better rated coaches aren't prepared to change their current employment to move into those vacated positions then that leaves us with only two options:
- Stick with them until the next big post RWC cycle merry-go-round.
- Gut them now for a secured better option.
Option one is a path to mediocrity IMO. Everyone I speak to who isn't obviously brain damaged sees we're playing stupidly obvious patterns that don't make defenses make decisions. The same patterns we've been playing for ages.
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this thread has really rammed home just how fucking arrogant we are on here
And i am not talking the usual NZ fan All Black Supremacy thing either
(and before the inevitable "pot kettle motherfucker" i absolutely include myself in here)
Even at it's base, this thread is scathing after a couple of lost games, one to a very late penalty (which i don't see as any different to winning by a late penalty really), one we were a marginal forward pass from winning, and one where the scoreboard was bad, but i doubt i was alone in thinking we would win at about the 3/4 mark. We're at peak "the ABs should win by 2 scores every test. And have better forwards and better backs than the opposition" which is never going to happen in professional rugby (aside from a couple of freak teams we have put out)
Then we have the posters who think they have already worked out how to beat a rush defense, and are basically saying "just do this you idiot! it's so obvious" like those who get paid to do this just haven't seen it. Or have identified the 2 things that need to change for the side to be completely fixed "it's so obvious!!"
Or those who have convinced themselves they know the inner workings of the AB set up, know what is happening, who is responsible for what, and why the people inside it are doing what they are doing. Or, most importantly, why people are being given a particular role.
That's before the 2nd wave of "have you played sport champ? cause i have, so listen to me" or "well, you haven't said anything i completely agree with in the last 2 pages (ignoring thread after thread after thread of evidence) so you are an apologist, or their mum, or whatever, posters who have come in red hot.
Don't get me wrong, it's entertaining reading. But lets not lose sight of the fact that we are nothing more than interested, but ignorant, spectators. Modern, elite professional rugby is almost a different sport to even the highest level that the vast majority of us played.
I'm not trying to change the tone, as i said, this is entertaining. But don't lose sight of the fact that none of us know a goddam thing.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
stuff worth a double upvote
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@chris said in All Blacks 2021:
@Victor-Meldrew
I have read your posts on this thread and I do agree there are more things wrong with AB rugby than just Foster and you make some really valid points on that.That's obviously true when you look at puzzle palace's contributions to its Trans Ta$man neighbour and securing investment. That aside, we know that his current team wasn't Foster's first choice. It appears his strength lies in culture and he's relying on the expertise of his coaches technically. The problem is that at least one of them isn't up to the task (I'm looking at you Mooar). So if the review doesn't address this paucity in competence in the staff, and better rated coaches aren't prepared to change their current employment to move into those vacated positions then that leaves us with only two options:
- Stick with them until the next big post RWC cycle merry-go-round.
- Gut them now for a secured better option.
Option one is a path to mediocrity IMO. Everyone I speak to who isn't obviously brain damaged sees we're playing stupidly obvious patterns that don't make defenses make decisions. The same patterns we've been playing for ages.
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
Option one is a path to mediocrity IMO. Everyone I speak to who isn't obviously brain damaged sees we're playing stupidly obvious patterns that don't make defenses make decisions. The same patterns we've been playing for ages.
Well he was chosen as a continuity coach. Maybe that's what they meant, same attack for another 4 years
