All Blacks 2021
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@crucial Has Warren Gatland or Chris Boyd been considered for an All Black role. I think John Mitchell should be called upon especially when taking on England.
@sbw1 said in All Blacks 2021:
@crucial Has Warren Gatland or Chris Boyd been considered for an All Black role. I think John Mitchell should be called upon especially when taking on England.
Under the current law management by refs it has been proven time and time again that league style defensive systems work the best.
We need to adapt to that unless we are aware of some law interpretation that is going to change that picture.
Instead of trying to isolate ball carriers on our side and work off turnovers we need to be forcing errors and doing the same.
I don't see any of our Super teams really doing that well except maybe the Blues. We are meeting the opposition on the gain line at best (or using umbrella defenses to try and force the runners back toward the forwards. -
this will be taken incorrectly by some but
I have seen many instances in other sports where head coaches are dead men walking, blokes thought ot not have a fucking clue, and the popular opinion was they needed to be sacked. They changed all the assistants and lo, there was a huge turn around in results.
One for a couple of guys on here is Damien Hardwick Richmond were trapped at 9th, they were going nowhere, and everyone thought the coach should get fired. Richmond kept him, but got rid of heaps of others. What, 5 years later he's regarded as basically the best coach in the league, with Richmond being the best side over that time, winning a bunch of flags.
@mariner4life Chris Boyd...
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@kiwimurph said in All Blacks 2021:
It's concerning to me that McLeod is the assistant that has been with the team the longest.
This will be McLeod's 6th season with the All Blacks as defence coach if he stays on.
The defence has been concerning for a long time.
It was a big surprise when he was first appointed IIRC and I have seen no obvious evidence that he brings anything better than average.
In fact we have insisted on playing contrary to the rest of the world. That would be great if the point of difference was effective for us but the opposite has happened and astute coaches have instead taken advantage.
It was frustrating to watch England keep pushing us back like we were the Warriors on a bad day.
Rope a dope has proven to be a terrible idea.@crucial said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks 2021:
It's concerning to me that McLeod is the assistant that has been with the team the longest.
This will be McLeod's 6th season with the All Blacks as defence coach if he stays on.
The defence has been concerning for a long time.
It was a big surprise when he was first appointed IIRC and I have seen no obvious evidence that he brings anything better than average.
In fact we have insisted on playing contrary to the rest of the world. That would be great if the point of difference was effective for us but the opposite has happened and astute coaches have instead taken advantage.
It was frustrating to watch England keep pushing us back like we were the Warriors on a bad day.
Rope a dope has proven to be a terrible idea.That line struck deep into my terrified heart.
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@crucial Has Warren Gatland or Chris Boyd been considered for an All Black role. I think John Mitchell should be called upon especially when taking on England.
@sbw1 said in All Blacks 2021:
@crucial Has Warren Gatland or Chris Boyd been considered for an All Black role. I think John Mitchell should be called upon especially when taking on England.
Please, not Warren. We have had our quota of Chief coaches, surely?
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2021:
@mariner4life it is like any organisation though isnt it if you dont have a good support team.
I would bet money that if Wayne Smith returned into Fozzies team, we'd see changes almost immediately (hoping for something similar with Schmidt)
Some people are meant to lead, but doesnt mean they dont need good assistants/advisors/team, similarly, some are not meant to lead, but thier value to the leader is imeasurable.
Sure NZR got it wrong with Fozzie, and I can understand the need to allow him to pick his team, but I think with the relatively weak team he assembled, coupled with his, er, indifferent record as head coach created a perfect storm of mediocrity.
Except Victor Meldrew would have you believe Foster's assistants were foisted upon him unwillingly.
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2021:
@mariner4life it is like any organisation though isnt it if you dont have a good support team.
I would bet money that if Wayne Smith returned into Fozzies team, we'd see changes almost immediately (hoping for something similar with Schmidt)
Some people are meant to lead, but doesnt mean they dont need good assistants/advisors/team, similarly, some are not meant to lead, but thier value to the leader is imeasurable.
Sure NZR got it wrong with Fozzie, and I can understand the need to allow him to pick his team, but I think with the relatively weak team he assembled, coupled with his, er, indifferent record as head coach created a perfect storm of mediocrity.
Except Victor Meldrew would have you believe Foster's assistants were foisted upon him unwillingly.
You own a bull terrier, don't you!? Just can't let it go!
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2021:
@mariner4life it is like any organisation though isnt it if you dont have a good support team.
I would bet money that if Wayne Smith returned into Fozzies team, we'd see changes almost immediately (hoping for something similar with Schmidt)
Some people are meant to lead, but doesnt mean they dont need good assistants/advisors/team, similarly, some are not meant to lead, but thier value to the leader is imeasurable.
Sure NZR got it wrong with Fozzie, and I can understand the need to allow him to pick his team, but I think with the relatively weak team he assembled, coupled with his, er, indifferent record as head coach created a perfect storm of mediocrity.
Except Victor Meldrew would have you believe Foster's assistants were foisted upon him unwillingly.
You own a bull terrier, don't you!? Just can't let it go!
I'm pretty sure in articles Foster went on about his coaching team so I personally feel he chose them, but haven't found the article yet.
I have however found some of Ian Foster's stellar analysis, such as after the Ireland game, where he blames the players, not any coach:
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/ian-foster-pinpoints-who-must-be-held-accountable-for-all-blacks-loss/ -
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2021:
@mariner4life it is like any organisation though isnt it if you dont have a good support team.
I would bet money that if Wayne Smith returned into Fozzies team, we'd see changes almost immediately (hoping for something similar with Schmidt)
Some people are meant to lead, but doesnt mean they dont need good assistants/advisors/team, similarly, some are not meant to lead, but thier value to the leader is imeasurable.
Sure NZR got it wrong with Fozzie, and I can understand the need to allow him to pick his team, but I think with the relatively weak team he assembled, coupled with his, er, indifferent record as head coach created a perfect storm of mediocrity.
Except Victor Meldrew would have you believe Foster's assistants were foisted upon him unwillingly.
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
Except Victor Meldrew would have you believe Foster's assistants were foisted upon him unwillingly.
Well, obviously I wouldn't, as I have never said they were.
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I'm pretty sure in articles Foster went on about his coaching team so I personally feel he chose them, but haven't found the article yet.
I have however found some of Ian Foster's stellar analysis, such as after the Ireland game, where he blames the players, not any coach:
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/ian-foster-pinpoints-who-must-be-held-accountable-for-all-blacks-loss/I'm pretty sure in articles Foster went on about his coaching team so I personally feel he chose them.
That could just be a taking ownership thing.
The question for me is around the who selection process for the Assistants. Was or is he able to recruit who he likes, does the NZRFU give a list of candidates, or do they work with the coach to give him what he needs while maintaining continuity/ building experience of coaching the national team?
The sort of thing any review should look at, as it doesn't seem to be working...
I have however found some of Ian Foster's stellar analysis, such as after the Ireland game, where he blames the players, not any coach:
What part of his analysis didn't you agree with? I thought it was pretty much in line with the post-match comments on here and other media, particularly the kicking away of possession and playing like headless chooks under pressure which has been evident for 4-5 years
Th real question to Foster should be: So what are you going to do about it?
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I'm pretty sure in articles Foster went on about his coaching team so I personally feel he chose them.
That could just be a taking ownership thing.
The question for me is around the who selection process for the Assistants. Was or is he able to recruit who he likes, does the NZRFU give a list of candidates, or do they work with the coach to give him what he needs while maintaining continuity/ building experience of coaching the national team?
The sort of thing any review should look at, as it doesn't seem to be working...
I have however found some of Ian Foster's stellar analysis, such as after the Ireland game, where he blames the players, not any coach:
What part of his analysis didn't you agree with? I thought it was pretty much in line with the post-match comments on here and other media, particularly the kicking away of possession and playing like headless chooks under pressure which has been evident for 4-5 years
Th real question to Foster should be: So what are you going to do about it?
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
The question for me is around the who selection process for the Assistants. Was or is he able to recruit who he likes, does the NZRFU give a list of candidates, or do they work with the coach to give him what he needs while maintaining continuity/ building experience of coaching the national team?
"We have made it clear that anybody who gets into this process, come along with your team," Impey said.
"Whether it's your scrum coach, your backs coach, your defence coach, whatever it is we want to see a team going forward."
"Those 26 candidates know what we've been saying so we're expecting that in the applications."
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
The question for me is around the who selection process for the Assistants. Was or is he able to recruit who he likes, does the NZRFU give a list of candidates, or do they work with the coach to give him what he needs while maintaining continuity/ building experience of coaching the national team?
"We have made it clear that anybody who gets into this process, come along with your team," Impey said.
"Whether it's your scrum coach, your backs coach, your defence coach, whatever it is we want to see a team going forward."
"Those 26 candidates know what we've been saying so we're expecting that in the applications."
And your point is what exactly?
How does Impey saying "come along with your team," translate into "you have 100% carte blanche to choose who you like"?
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@sbw1 said in All Blacks 2021:
@crucial Has Warren Gatland or Chris Boyd been considered for an All Black role. I think John Mitchell should be called upon especially when taking on England.
Under the current law management by refs it has been proven time and time again that league style defensive systems work the best.
We need to adapt to that unless we are aware of some law interpretation that is going to change that picture.
Instead of trying to isolate ball carriers on our side and work off turnovers we need to be forcing errors and doing the same.
I don't see any of our Super teams really doing that well except maybe the Blues. We are meeting the opposition on the gain line at best (or using umbrella defenses to try and force the runners back toward the forwards.@crucial said in All Blacks 2021:
Instead of trying to isolate ball carriers on our side and work off turnovers we need to be forcing errors and doing the same.
I don't see any of our Super teams really doing that well except maybe the Blues. We are meeting the opposition on the gain line at best (or using umbrella defenses to try and force the runners back toward the forwards.Pretty much this 100%. We have to question if NZ Super Rugby teams are preparing players for international completion
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@crucial said in All Blacks 2021:
Instead of trying to isolate ball carriers on our side and work off turnovers we need to be forcing errors and doing the same.
I don't see any of our Super teams really doing that well except maybe the Blues. We are meeting the opposition on the gain line at best (or using umbrella defenses to try and force the runners back toward the forwards.Pretty much this 100%. We have to question if NZ Super Rugby teams are preparing players for international completion
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2021:
Instead of trying to isolate ball carriers on our side and work off turnovers we need to be forcing errors and doing the same.
I don't see any of our Super teams really doing that well except maybe the Blues. We are meeting the opposition on the gain line at best (or using umbrella defenses to try and force the runners back toward the forwards.Pretty much this 100%. We have to question if NZ Super Rugby teams are preparing players for international completion
To be fair to them, that's not their role. If NZR want to use it as a defacto Test competition, then they should ensure the seasonal be rules are conducive rather than the entertainment they've backed.
I'm a firm believer that coaching careers are made on the back of rosters. More astute observers can see a coach that gets more than the sum of their players.
And that goes double for assistants. I don't think there's a person on this forum who doesn't believe Wayne Smith bettered every setup he was involved in.
It's entirely possible that he's saddled with donkeys because everyone else was already engaged. What's not arguable in my mind is Mooar has to go.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2021:
Instead of trying to isolate ball carriers on our side and work off turnovers we need to be forcing errors and doing the same.
I don't see any of our Super teams really doing that well except maybe the Blues. We are meeting the opposition on the gain line at best (or using umbrella defenses to try and force the runners back toward the forwards.Pretty much this 100%. We have to question if NZ Super Rugby teams are preparing players for international completion
To be fair to them, that's not their role. If NZR want to use it as a defacto Test competition, then they should ensure the seasonal be rules are conducive rather than the entertainment they've backed.
I'm a firm believer that coaching careers are made on the back of rosters. More astute observers can see a coach that gets more than the sum of their players.
And that goes double for assistants. I don't think there's a person on this forum who doesn't believe Wayne Smith bettered every setup he was involved in.
It's entirely possible that he's saddled with donkeys because everyone else was already engaged. What's not arguable in my mind is Mooar has to go.
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2021:
Instead of trying to isolate ball carriers on our side and work off turnovers we need to be forcing errors and doing the same.
I don't see any of our Super teams really doing that well except maybe the Blues. We are meeting the opposition on the gain line at best (or using umbrella defenses to try and force the runners back toward the forwards.Pretty much this 100%. We have to question if NZ Super Rugby teams are preparing players for international completion
To be fair to them, that's not their role. If NZR want to use it as a defacto Test competition, then they should ensure the seasonal be rules are conducive rather than the entertainment they've backed.
Agreed. Need for joined-up thinking across the piece is pretty clear to me. Interesting comment you make on "entertainment" - makes me wonder how much the $$ is influencing things more than before
It's entirely possible that he's saddled with donkeys because everyone else was already engaged.
If you're appointing a new coach, wouldn't you want to ensure you had the ducks reasonably in a row, assistant-wise, first?
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2021:
Instead of trying to isolate ball carriers on our side and work off turnovers we need to be forcing errors and doing the same.
I don't see any of our Super teams really doing that well except maybe the Blues. We are meeting the opposition on the gain line at best (or using umbrella defenses to try and force the runners back toward the forwards.Pretty much this 100%. We have to question if NZ Super Rugby teams are preparing players for international completion
To be fair to them, that's not their role. If NZR want to use it as a defacto Test competition, then they should ensure the seasonal be rules are conducive rather than the entertainment they've backed.
Agreed. Need for joined-up thinking across the piece is pretty clear to me. Interesting comment you make on "entertainment" - makes me wonder how much the $$ is influencing things more than before
It's entirely possible that he's saddled with donkeys because everyone else was already engaged.
If you're appointing a new coach, wouldn't you want to ensure you had the ducks reasonably in a row, assistant-wise, first?
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2021:
Instead of trying to isolate ball carriers on our side and work off turnovers we need to be forcing errors and doing the same.
I don't see any of our Super teams really doing that well except maybe the Blues. We are meeting the opposition on the gain line at best (or using umbrella defenses to try and force the runners back toward the forwards.Pretty much this 100%. We have to question if NZ Super Rugby teams are preparing players for international completion
To be fair to them, that's not their role. If NZR want to use it as a defacto Test competition, then they should ensure the seasonal be rules are conducive rather than the entertainment they've backed.
Agreed. Need for joined-up thinking across the piece is pretty clear to me. Interesting comment you make on "entertainment" - makes me wonder how much the $$ is influencing things more than before
It's entirely possible that he's saddled with donkeys because everyone else was already engaged.
If you're appointing a new coach, wouldn't you want to ensure you had the ducks reasonably in a row, assistant-wise, first?
I always thought applicants had their perspective coaching teams in place, as part of the selection process
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2021:
Instead of trying to isolate ball carriers on our side and work off turnovers we need to be forcing errors and doing the same.
I don't see any of our Super teams really doing that well except maybe the Blues. We are meeting the opposition on the gain line at best (or using umbrella defenses to try and force the runners back toward the forwards.Pretty much this 100%. We have to question if NZ Super Rugby teams are preparing players for international completion
To be fair to them, that's not their role. If NZR want to use it as a defacto Test competition, then they should ensure the seasonal be rules are conducive rather than the entertainment they've backed.
Agreed. Need for joined-up thinking across the piece is pretty clear to me. Interesting comment you make on "entertainment" - makes me wonder how much the $$ is influencing things more than before
It's entirely possible that he's saddled with donkeys because everyone else was already engaged.
If you're appointing a new coach, wouldn't you want to ensure you had the ducks reasonably in a row, assistant-wise, first?
I always thought applicants had their perspective coaching teams in place, as part of the selection process
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
I always thought applicants had their perspective coaching teams in place, as part of the selection process
It appears that they front up with a team in place, but I'd certainly think the selection panel/NZR to have a significant input on the final coaching set-up.
I can't believe that used a "take everyone or no-one" approach when deciding on the coaching group. Worrying if they do.
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
I always thought applicants had their perspective coaching teams in place, as part of the selection process
It appears that they front up with a team in place, but I'd certainly think the selection panel/NZR to have a significant input on the final coaching set-up.
I can't believe that used a "take everyone or no-one" approach when deciding on the coaching group. Worrying if they do.
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
I always thought applicants had their perspective coaching teams in place, as part of the selection process
It appears that they front up with a team in place, but I'd certainly think the selection panel/NZR to have a significant input on the final coaching set-up.
I can't believe that used a "take everyone of no-one" approach when deciding on the coaching group. Worrying if they do.
I thought that's what happened when GH got re-upped. It was cartel vs Robbie and Pat Lam(?) among others
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
I always thought applicants had their perspective coaching teams in place, as part of the selection process
It appears that they front up with a team in place, but I'd certainly think the selection panel/NZR to have a significant input on the final coaching set-up.
I can't believe that used a "take everyone of no-one" approach when deciding on the coaching group. Worrying if they do.
I thought that's what happened when GH got re-upped. It was cartel vs Robbie and Pat Lam(?) among others
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
I thought that's what happened when GH got re-upped.
I always thought NZR got to review/approve the assistants in '08 and not just select GH and upvote the entire Cartel. I'll have to re-read Redemption.....
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Just the way the old blokes performed in the team, it all looks like a stale environment. Odds on it not freshening up over the next 2 years.
sigh
@siam said in All Blacks 2021:
Just the way the
oldexperienced blokes performed in the team, it all looks like a stale environment. Odds on it not freshening up over the next 2 years.
sighFIFY
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
I thought that's what happened when GH got re-upped.
I always thought NZR got to review/approve the assistants in '08 and not just select GH and upvote the entire Cartel. I'll have to re-read Redemption.....
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
I thought that's what happened when GH got re-upped.
I always thought NZR got to review/approve the assistants in '08 and not just select GH and upvote the entire Cartel. I'll have to re-read Redemption.....
Research and report back please
