Electric Vehicles
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@antipodean said in Electric Vehicles:
@nta said in Electric Vehicles:
Going back to an earlier point I made: people talk about the effect of towing on EV range, yet generally ignore the fact something similar is going to happen to an ICEV. So no big deal, just try to be as efficient as possible regardless.
The difference is immense once you account for the time taken to refuel and cover a distance. The solution is hybrids.
Maybe today that is a solution, but charging tech has changed rapidly (ha ha) in the last few years and will continue to do so. Energy density for cells has doubled in the last decade and new technologies promise even more improvements.
A lot of urban dwellers could skip straight past hybrid to an EV, and only have to think about their charging strategy when they go away for the occasional weekend. Price still being the primary barrier, and the chicken-and-egg analysis of EV numbers versus charging infrastructure.
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@nta said in Electric Vehicles:
@antipodean said in Electric Vehicles:
@nta said in Electric Vehicles:
Going back to an earlier point I made: people talk about the effect of towing on EV range, yet generally ignore the fact something similar is going to happen to an ICEV. So no big deal, just try to be as efficient as possible regardless.
The difference is immense once you account for the time taken to refuel and cover a distance. The solution is hybrids.
Maybe today that is a solution, but charging tech has changed rapidly (ha ha) in the last few years and will continue to do so. Energy density for cells has doubled in the last decade and new technologies promise even more improvements.
A lot of urban dwellers could skip straight past hybrid to an EV, and only have to think about their charging strategy when they go away for the occasional weekend. Price still being the primary barrier, and the chicken-and-egg analysis of EV numbers versus charging infrastructure.
The olds have recently got a PHEV and yes, apart from the odd longer trip they hardly ever use petrol. The (small) range of the E has them easily covered for day to day use and they have invested in a proper charge setup at home to take advantage of off-peak charging and look after itself.
On a long trip it doesn't save that much petrol (even with dad trying to eek out every bit from E) unless they stop somewhere for a while and juice up. -
@nta said in Electric Vehicles:
@antipodean said in Electric Vehicles:
@nta said in Electric Vehicles:
Going back to an earlier point I made: people talk about the effect of towing on EV range, yet generally ignore the fact something similar is going to happen to an ICEV. So no big deal, just try to be as efficient as possible regardless.
The difference is immense once you account for the time taken to refuel and cover a distance. The solution is hybrids.
Maybe today that is a solution, but charging tech has changed rapidly (ha ha) in the last few years and will continue to do so. Energy density for cells has doubled in the last decade and new technologies promise even more improvements.
"promise".
A lot of urban dwellers could skip straight past hybrid to an EV
We were talking about towing caravans, yes?
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@crucial and that EV part of the drive train is pushing a helluva lot of dead weight when the internal combustion parts are asleep.
Volvo XC40 PHEV weighs around 1700kg compared to the standard XC40 FWD 1550kg (AWD 1610kg).
They tend not to charge as fast as full EVs too. You can get some mindblowing MPG out of them of course.
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@antipodean said in Electric Vehicles:
We were talking about towing caravans, yes?
So the EV component of your hybrid is going to get about 15-20km, yes?
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@nta said in Electric Vehicles:
@crucial and that EV part of the drive train is pushing a helluva lot of dead weight when the internal combustion parts are asleep.
Volvo XC40 PHEV weighs around 1700kg compared to the standard XC40 FWD 1550kg (AWD 1610kg).
They tend not to charge as fast as full EVs too. You can get some mindblowing MPG out of them of course.
I think MPG over a year would be mighty fine. MPG on a single trip varies with distance and when he drove from BOP to Welly (in one hit) it wasn't mind blowing at all. About the same as if I pop up to see them in our little old Swift.
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@nta said in Electric Vehicles:
@antipodean said in Electric Vehicles:
We were talking about towing caravans, yes?
So the EV component of your hybrid is going to get about 15-20km, yes?
WTF are you talking about? A hybrid that's designed to use the benefit of electric motors in high torque demands (starting, hills, etc.) and cruise / regen downhill and on straights. In the same way that's the solution for volumetric road transport.
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@crucial said in Electric Vehicles:
About the same as if I pop up to see them in our little old Swift.
My Toyota Corolla Wagon was awesome for fuel efficiency. One trip I'd replaced tyres and suspension in the space of a week, and a mate and I went on a road trip. It was pretty good to start with, then outside Dubbo heading south we found a truck to sit behind for about 200km - didn't need air con either. I think that tank I got close to 700km (50L).
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@antipodean I think he assumed you meant a PHEV
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@antipodean said in Electric Vehicles:
@nta said in Electric Vehicles:
@antipodean said in Electric Vehicles:
We were talking about towing caravans, yes?
So the EV component of your hybrid is going to get about 15-20km, yes?
WTF are you talking about? A hybrid that's designed to use the benefit of electric motors in high torque demands (starting, hills, etc.) and cruise / regen downhill and on straights.
Which is reduced greatly in highway or open road driving per the test videos above - in this scenario the battery is dead weight after about the first 20km in a PHEV. And you're using a very small engine for the rest of it, so carbon fuel efficiency dives as well. PHEV regen isn't crash hot compared to full EV because the intrinsic design is for petrol to do the majority of load.
Hybrid design could be much more efficient to take advantage of this without doubt, but you're trading off weight/space.
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@dogmeat said in Electric Vehicles:
@antipodean I think he assumed you meant a PHEV
I'm not swayed either way. I think @NTA and I may be agreeing but talking cross purposes. I agree wholeheartedly that if you're a suburban dweller an EV makes eminently more sense given the average commute is only 30-40km. My suggestion for towing things is to get something designed for the task.
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this should not be a surprise. Look at your fuel usage towing a caravan.
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@nta said in Electric Vehicles:
Which is reduced greatly in highway or open road driving per the test videos above
Sorry I missed adding the engine does that bit. That's what diesels are good for and as a result reduce the battery pack to 25-33% of a EV.
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@antipodean said in Electric Vehicles:
My suggestion for towing things is to get something designed for the task.
Agreed - until the EV tech improves (cars and charging infrastructure), if you're towing regularly it probably isn't for you without compromise.
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I wanted a F150 Lightning and got approval from the MFWAF although I suspect that was because she knew they'd be unlikely to be exported to Oz. SO I'm also on the Rivian wait list (but they're unlikely to be coming to Oz any time soon either), so I'm hoping the rumoured hybrid Ranger makes a timely appearance.
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The battery swapping option could be a way to get around long charge times. And using off peak tariffs would make it very cost effective.
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@antipodean said in Electric Vehicles:
@dogmeat said in Electric Vehicles:
@antipodean I think he assumed you meant a PHEV
I'm not swayed either way. I think @NTA and I may be agreeing but talking cross purposes. I agree wholeheartedly that if you're a suburban dweller an EV makes eminently more sense given the average commute is only 30-40km. My suggestion for towing things is to get something designed for the task.
like a self-powered camping trailer?
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