All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
Based off what? It's Razor's job to win SR titles at all costs, how it gets there is irrelevant to him.
It might be irrelevant to him but he's certainly not churning out players that are suited for test rugby.
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@kiwimurph said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
Based off what? It's Razor's job to win SR titles at all costs, how it gets there is irrelevant to him.
It might be irrelevant to him but he's certainly not churning out players that are suited for test rugby.
Or perhaps Foster was not utilizing those players properly at international level as Razor implied...
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
Based off what? It's Razor's job to win SR titles at all costs, how it gets there is irrelevant to him.
It might be irrelevant to him but he's certainly not churning out players that are suited for test rugby.
Or perhaps Foster was not utilizing those players properly at international level as Razor implied...
I'd suggest the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
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@kiwimurph said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
Based off what? It's Razor's job to win SR titles at all costs, how it gets there is irrelevant to him.
It might be irrelevant to him but he's certainly not churning out players that are suited for test rugby.
Or perhaps Foster was not utilizing those players properly at international level as Razor implied...
I'd suggest the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
It always does.
But even so, suggesting that the national coach should come up with plans that suit the way a next level down coach has prepared the players is a bit arse about face. -
@crucial said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
Based off what? It's Razor's job to win SR titles at all costs, how it gets there is irrelevant to him.
It might be irrelevant to him but he's certainly not churning out players that are suited for test rugby.
Or perhaps Foster was not utilizing those players properly at international level as Razor implied...
I'd suggest the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
It always does.
But even so, suggesting that the national coach should come up with plans that suit the way a next level down coach has prepared the players is a bit arse about face.Maybe the National Coach comes up with any plans,That would be refreshing.
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@tim said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
Retallick got outplayed by Blues journeyman Josh Goodhue, who is having his best season, but it's so obvious that he is done for at test level.
It's completely unheard of that a player could take two years out of NZ rugby then expect to come straight back into the ABs. It was absolute bullshit that they allowed that. Retallick was awful last year.
Whitelock is one hundred years old.
Foster and his gang of retards could use Tuipoluto up the middle, rather than out wide, but they are so stupid.
Hope Tupou Vaai develops very fast, because we are out of options.
Problem being anyone who shows out in SR and it not already an AB are they up to AB standard.
Picking players every year is not the answer,How good is our SR standard now ?,is it really at a high level compared to Test Rugby.
The problem I believe is the AB coaching staff can not deliver a game plan, strategies,or the right selections to deliver success. -
@chris the heart of the problem is that out tight 5 is consistently outplayed by decent opponents. So we get reamed, the backs get ball under pressure. Everything comes back to that.
Our cattle either aren't up to it, too old, or not being coached and played to a style that suits they're strengths
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@tim said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
Hope Tupou Vaai develops very fast, because we are out of options.
Yeah I just don't get this eh, maybe he's busy but he just seems really ineffective... and small. I just feel like there's almost half a dozen locks that could easily replace him without anyone noticing a drop in standard - MSR, Dickson, Goodhue, saders locks, etc.
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@arhs said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
Surprised that Selby Rickit is not well regarded on the fern. He has a real presence in my view and delivers consistently. But I don't think Retallick has been playing as badly as suggested either.
I can't speak for others, but I recognize his ability, he could be an All Black if gets consistent game time and keeps developing.
However, I'm still a bit uncomfortable about his past. Personally speaking, he came across as a real thug from that assault and I'm not a big fan of elevating people like that to the Abs.
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@bones said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@tim said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
Hope Tupou Vaai develops very fast, because we are out of options.
Yeah I just don't get this eh, maybe he's busy but he just seems really ineffective... and small. I just feel like there's almost half a dozen locks that could easily replace him without anyone noticing a drop in standard - MSR, Dickson, Goodhue, saders locks, etc.
Not so sure that many.
MSR a definite option. But he's got some serious making up to do in the character test category. Would like to see him doing some serious arse kissing to his victim(s) and in general.
Think physically he's well up to test footy.
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@arhs said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
Surprised that Selby Rickit is not well regarded on the fern. He has a real presence in my view and delivers consistently. But I don't think Retallick has been playing as badly as suggested either.
Character.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@arhs said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
Surprised that Selby Rickit is not well regarded on the fern. He has a real presence in my view and delivers consistently. But I don't think Retallick has been playing as badly as suggested either.
I can't speak for others, but I recognize his ability, he could be an All Black if gets consistent game time and keeps developing.
However, I'm still a bit uncomfortable about his past. Personally speaking, he came across as a real thug from that assault and I'm not a big fan of elevating people like that to the Abs.
This
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@bones said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@booboo said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
Not so sure that many.
I just named that many.
You named 3 which isn't 6. Only one of which I agree with.
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@booboo said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@bones said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@booboo said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
Not so sure that many.
I just named that many.
You named 3 which isn't 6. Only one of which I agree with.
Saders locks = 2 or more, by my count "almost half a dozen" would probably be 5. What does Vaai bring to the table that the others don't?
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@bones said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@booboo said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@bones said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@booboo said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
Not so sure that many.
I just named that many.
You named 3 which isn't 6. Only one of which I agree with.
Saders locks = 2 or more. What does Vaai bring to the table that the others don't?
Not to exactly answer your question, but I think at least one (or more) of those Saders locks (plus PPP) were injured and without BBBR the Chiefs makeshift locks did a reasonable job of securing ball and shifting bodies, which is how he got his chance.
At this point, even though a player such as Strange or Dunshea might actually be better, we hardly get to see them and they get few opportunities to develop as when it counts it will be Whitelock and Barrett, so I'm happy that they went with a player who was seeing significant gametime.
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@bones said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@gt12 oh yeah I definitely see why he was selected initially, was worth a punt. I just don't see what he offers now that even Frizzel couldn't offer?
He's busy, I'll give him that, but he's just such a "lite" player.
I dunno, maybe that's a fair assessment of where he is right now, because it sounds like many of our players to me...
I thought he did quite well on the weekend (edit, especially given it was his first Super game back), he played 57 minutes (compared to Lord's 64 and BBBR's 80) and managed 5 passes, 6 runs, 14 metres, which puts him behind Lord but miles ahead of BBBR, with 8 tackles, none misses (BBR 11,1 and Lord 9,0). So, I think all in all he's contributing. Whether he's significantly better than MSK or another player such as Goodhue will be up to them to show form over the season.
I'm not convinced of him, but he's not even 23 yet, so I'm interested to see how things shake out this year.
