All Blacks 2022
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@tim wouldn't mind seeing a shake-up in that backline. For me R Ioane isn't the answer to centre so I would actually move him back to 11.
Something like this would do nicely.
9. A Smith 10. B Barrett 11. R Ioane 12. T Umaga-Jensen 13. A Leinert-Brown 14. W Jordan 15. J Barrett Reserve backs: 21. B Weber 22. R Mo'unga 23. P Umaga-Jensen / D Havili / Q Tupaea
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@canes4life Yeah, it really is about getting that midfield right.
@tim I think in TUJ you have the size, grunt and skill-set required to be a international 12, then having ALB outside him gives you a sound defender and distributor which you need in that combination.
I would then have PUJ coming on late in the game who has been outstanding coming on for the Canes at either 12/13 even though we all know he should be starting.
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@tim reckon the comments on Goodhue-ALB were a bit harsh.
Goodhue is more in the traditional distributing centre mould and probably the best defender, while ALB can be a weapon with his accelaration.
Problem is, we have chopped and changed so often, it affects whoever plays there, and as such, affects the ball going further too.
Just hope Fozzie goes in with his eyes open this year, and loyalty is only rewarded where justified.
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@tim reckon the comments on Goodhue-ALB were a bit harsh.
Goodhue is more in the traditional distributing centre mould and probably the best defender, while ALB can be a weapon with his accelaration.
Problem is, we have chopped and changed so often, it affects whoever plays there, and as such, affects the ball going further too.
Just hope Fozzie goes in with his eyes open this year, and loyalty is only rewarded where justified.
@taniwharugby Goodhue and ALB are probably NZ's best centres, however I don't think either of them suit playing 12 which is where the AB coaches have gone wrong in the past.
The All Black's really need to settle on their top centre pairing because we are running out of tests before the WC.
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@gt12 thats something I like about Reece, he goes looking for work pops up all over the place and uses his pace to exploit mis-matches.
Wingers dont need to stay on the wing, but I guess thats one of the drawbacks for players like Reiko on the wing, is often if they arent involved enough they tend to be under-utilised, so in Reikos case, if he is on the wing he needs to make sure he is looking for work.
But can certainly see the positives of him in the centres.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 thats something I like about Reece, he goes looking for work pops up all over the place and uses his pace to exploit mis-matches.
Wingers dont need to stay on the wing, but I guess thats one of the drawbacks for players like Reiko on the wing, is often if they arent involved enough they tend to be under-utilised, so in Reikos case, if he is on the wing he needs to make sure he is looking for work.
But can certainly see the positives of him in the centres.
that is good but wingers also need to be aware they may be needed back on the position, nothing more annoying than stretching things one way and then you go to unleash the other and find a tight forward on the end of the line
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 thats something I like about Reece, he goes looking for work pops up all over the place and uses his pace to exploit mis-matches.
Wingers dont need to stay on the wing, but I guess thats one of the drawbacks for players like Reiko on the wing, is often if they arent involved enough they tend to be under-utilised, so in Reikos case, if he is on the wing he needs to make sure he is looking for work.
But can certainly see the positives of him in the centres.
that is good but wingers also need to be aware they may be needed back on the position, nothing more annoying than stretching things one way and then you go to unleash the other and find a tight forward on the end of the line
@kiwiwomble in Reece's case, I think he has a pretty good awareness of things and reads play pretty well and is usually in the right place, assisted by his workrate
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@taniwharugby Goodhue and ALB are probably NZ's best centres, however I don't think either of them suit playing 12 which is where the AB coaches have gone wrong in the past.
The All Black's really need to settle on their top centre pairing because we are running out of tests before the WC.
@canes4life said in All Blacks 2022:
@taniwharugby Goodhue and ALB are probably NZ's best centres, however I don't think either of them suit playing 12 which is where the AB coaches have gone wrong in the past.
The All Black's really need to settle on their top centre pairing because we are running out of tests before the WC.
I think there are 19
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https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/128081388/the-alarming-trend-stalling-new-zealand-rugby
O’Keeffe, who handled Six Nations matches and games on the British & Irish Lions tour of South Africa, said it was “no surprise” the All Blacks had been beaten as their opponents generated quicker ball from the breakdowns.
Yet another indicator of the irrelevance of Super Rugby for test rugby.
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@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
Areas of weakness were identified, and new players were built. Is there any evidence of that happening since 2016?
Reiko at 13 seems an ongoing project. Like to see him breakthrough in that position this year
I can see why they want it. A point of difference in the midfield (his speed) could be the break that unlocks a tight game. He does need to improve his passing (mainly his choice of when to pass and when not to).
It's not very often he's going to be able to use his speed in a very congested area like the midfield, especially against the better teams... he'll have more chances to use his outstanding pace on the wing, also looks more comfortable playing there.
Only needs one chance in a tight game, but this is why they are doing it, looking for him to use his speed in mismatches on turnover ball (and with luck if we improve our offense, off set plays).
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Finding the good midfield combination is a worry but the biggest one, in my opinion, is to find a competitive front five. In this respect, the injury to P.P. Parkinson has been a real blow. He may not be the best lock when the game is played at pace because of his "concrete feet", but his power and massive frame would be of great value against teams like SA, England, Ireland and France. Will he be back to fitness for the EOYT ? This would be a good occasion to test him against muscular and heavy forwards.
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Finding the good midfield combination is a worry but the biggest one, in my opinion, is to find a competitive front five. In this respect, the injury to P.P. Parkinson has been a real blow. He may not be the best lock when the game is played at pace because of his "concrete feet", but his power and massive frame would be of great value against teams like SA, England, Ireland and France. Will he be back to fitness for the EOYT ? This would be a good occasion to test him against muscular and heavy forwards.
@cgrant said in All Blacks 2022:
power and massive frame
Well yeah...if it was noticeable. He certainly doesn't play like a big man, apart from the very occasional slow motion wade through 3-4 tacklers. I think MSR and even Dickson would be ahead of him now.
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@cgrant said in All Blacks 2022:
power and massive frame
Well yeah...if it was noticeable. He certainly doesn't play like a big man, apart from the very occasional slow motion wade through 3-4 tacklers. I think MSR and even Dickson would be ahead of him now.
@bones said in All Blacks 2022:
@cgrant said in All Blacks 2022:
power and massive frame
Well yeah...if it was noticeable. He certainly doesn't play like a big man, apart from the very occasional slow motion wade through 3-4 tacklers. I think MSR and even Dickson would be ahead of him now.
Yes, it's what you do with your frame that counts.
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https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/128081388/the-alarming-trend-stalling-new-zealand-rugby
O’Keeffe, who handled Six Nations matches and games on the British & Irish Lions tour of South Africa, said it was “no surprise” the All Blacks had been beaten as their opponents generated quicker ball from the breakdowns.
Yet another indicator of the irrelevance of Super Rugby for test rugby.
@tim said in All Blacks 2022:
https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/128081388/the-alarming-trend-stalling-new-zealand-rugby
O’Keeffe, who handled Six Nations matches and games on the British & Irish Lions tour of South Africa, said it was “no surprise” the All Blacks had been beaten as their opponents generated quicker ball from the breakdowns.
Yet another indicator of the irrelevance of Super Rugby for test rugby.
It's ridiculous that our Super Rugby teams & ABs don't seem to want to do the bloody basics of getting good numbers to their ball carriers to clean out opposition players at the breakdown with urgency/aggression... so hardly surprising we get so much slow ball, if that shite doesn't change we will keep on struggling.
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@tim said in All Blacks 2022:
https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/128081388/the-alarming-trend-stalling-new-zealand-rugby
O’Keeffe, who handled Six Nations matches and games on the British & Irish Lions tour of South Africa, said it was “no surprise” the All Blacks had been beaten as their opponents generated quicker ball from the breakdowns.
Yet another indicator of the irrelevance of Super Rugby for test rugby.
It's ridiculous that our Super Rugby teams & ABs don't seem to want to do the bloody basics of getting good numbers to their ball carriers to clean out opposition players at the breakdown with urgency/aggression... so hardly surprising we get so much slow ball, if that shite doesn't change we will keep on struggling.
@nzbloke But what is the balance around player welfare? Posters all want harder hits bigger clean outs and aggressive running and playing same best 23 each week. Over extended super season and test season how will players take the extra pounding? Maybe super and AB coaches are being guided a bit about working their key squad members through workload as best they can.
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@nzbloke But what is the balance around player welfare? Posters all want harder hits bigger clean outs and aggressive running and playing same best 23 each week. Over extended super season and test season how will players take the extra pounding? Maybe super and AB coaches are being guided a bit about working their key squad members through workload as best they can.
@arhs said in All Blacks 2022:
@nzbloke But what is the balance around player welfare? Posters all want harder hits bigger clean outs and aggressive running and playing same best 23 each week. Over extended super season and test season how will players take the extra pounding? Maybe super and AB coaches are being guided a bit about working their key squad members through workload as best they can.
Guided by the NH?
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@tim said in All Blacks 2022:
https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/128081388/the-alarming-trend-stalling-new-zealand-rugby
O’Keeffe, who handled Six Nations matches and games on the British & Irish Lions tour of South Africa, said it was “no surprise” the All Blacks had been beaten as their opponents generated quicker ball from the breakdowns.
Yet another indicator of the irrelevance of Super Rugby for test rugby.
It's ridiculous that our Super Rugby teams & ABs don't seem to want to do the bloody basics of getting good numbers to their ball carriers to clean out opposition players at the breakdown with urgency/aggression... so hardly surprising we get so much slow ball, if that shite doesn't change we will keep on struggling.
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2022:
@tim said in All Blacks 2022:
https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/128081388/the-alarming-trend-stalling-new-zealand-rugby
O’Keeffe, who handled Six Nations matches and games on the British & Irish Lions tour of South Africa, said it was “no surprise” the All Blacks had been beaten as their opponents generated quicker ball from the breakdowns.
Yet another indicator of the irrelevance of Super Rugby for test rugby.
It's ridiculous that our Super Rugby teams & ABs don't seem to want to do the bloody basics of getting good numbers to their ball carriers to clean out opposition players at the breakdown with urgency/aggression... so hardly surprising we get so much slow ball, if that shite doesn't change we will keep on struggling.
I think there is many a coach that will dispel your theory on that in the modern game. They will have plenty of analysis around speed of ball vs attacking numbers elsewhere ie not much use having fast ball to then have your outsides outnumbered and potentially isolated without enough support.
The key is not for numbers but for efficiency.@ARHS I take your point but my call isn't for harder hits it is for more dynamic intent. There's a difference in my mind. Players like Ardie and Samisoni don't die easily with the ball. Players like Moody and Bridge do.
Players like Vai'i take the ball forward by running onto it at angles, players like the aging version of Whitelock take it statically and make a metre.
Some harsh and generalised examples on players there but they are meant to be illustrative not absolute.
It's difficult to find those players though. The likes of Blackadder bring plenty of dynamics but it has to be effective as well. Then players like Akira bring amazing dynamics but tend to switch it on and off.
It's easy to say what would work, Harder to find/develop the resources. -
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2022:
@tim said in All Blacks 2022:
https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/128081388/the-alarming-trend-stalling-new-zealand-rugby
O’Keeffe, who handled Six Nations matches and games on the British & Irish Lions tour of South Africa, said it was “no surprise” the All Blacks had been beaten as their opponents generated quicker ball from the breakdowns.
Yet another indicator of the irrelevance of Super Rugby for test rugby.
It's ridiculous that our Super Rugby teams & ABs don't seem to want to do the bloody basics of getting good numbers to their ball carriers to clean out opposition players at the breakdown with urgency/aggression... so hardly surprising we get so much slow ball, if that shite doesn't change we will keep on struggling.
I think there is many a coach that will dispel your theory on that in the modern game. They will have plenty of analysis around speed of ball vs attacking numbers elsewhere ie not much use having fast ball to then have your outsides outnumbered and potentially isolated without enough support.
The key is not for numbers but for efficiency.@ARHS I take your point but my call isn't for harder hits it is for more dynamic intent. There's a difference in my mind. Players like Ardie and Samisoni don't die easily with the ball. Players like Moody and Bridge do.
Players like Vai'i take the ball forward by running onto it at angles, players like the aging version of Whitelock take it statically and make a metre.
Some harsh and generalised examples on players there but they are meant to be illustrative not absolute.
It's difficult to find those players though. The likes of Blackadder bring plenty of dynamics but it has to be effective as well. Then players like Akira bring amazing dynamics but tend to switch it on and off.
It's easy to say what would work, Harder to find/develop the resources. -
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2022:
@tim said in All Blacks 2022:
https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/128081388/the-alarming-trend-stalling-new-zealand-rugby
O’Keeffe, who handled Six Nations matches and games on the British & Irish Lions tour of South Africa, said it was “no surprise” the All Blacks had been beaten as their opponents generated quicker ball from the breakdowns.
Yet another indicator of the irrelevance of Super Rugby for test rugby.
It's ridiculous that our Super Rugby teams & ABs don't seem to want to do the bloody basics of getting good numbers to their ball carriers to clean out opposition players at the breakdown with urgency/aggression... so hardly surprising we get so much slow ball, if that shite doesn't change we will keep on struggling.
I think there is many a coach that will dispel your theory on that in the modern game. They will have plenty of analysis around speed of ball vs attacking numbers elsewhere ie not much use having fast ball to then have your outsides outnumbered and potentially isolated without enough support.
The key is not for numbers but for efficiency.@ARHS I take your point but my call isn't for harder hits it is for more dynamic intent. There's a difference in my mind. Players like Ardie and Samisoni don't die easily with the ball. Players like Moody and Bridge do.
Players like Vai'i take the ball forward by running onto it at angles, players like the aging version of Whitelock take it statically and make a metre.
Some harsh and generalised examples on players there but they are meant to be illustrative not absolute.
It's difficult to find those players though. The likes of Blackadder bring plenty of dynamics but it has to be effective as well. Then players like Akira bring amazing dynamics but tend to switch it on and off.
It's easy to say what would work, Harder to find/develop the resources.@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
It's easy to say what would work, Harder to find/develop the resources.
Ultimately, though, it's the pathways right. Australia throws up so many high quality cricketers as their lower grades ruthlessly expose flaws. NZ Rugby used to do the same - but the cattle quality seems to have dropped off significantly.
Is it the coaching brain drain? We just don't seem to innovate any more the way we used to; since 2015 I don't think we've seen us leading the world in many categories.
Henry reset this in 03/04 when he took over, kicked a bunch of dickheads out of the team, and changed the culture and quality significnatly. Do we need this again? Who could do it - it ain't gonne be Fozzie, that's for sure.
18 Tests to the world cup, and we're going to be praying for bolters like NMS to ignite our campaign.
Speaking of bolters, Taine Plumtree has looked bloody impressive in the three outings I've seen him in. Just seems to stand out on the field both pre-season and during games. The try scoring is a nice bonus as well
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@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2022:
@tim said in All Blacks 2022:
https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/128081388/the-alarming-trend-stalling-new-zealand-rugby
O’Keeffe, who handled Six Nations matches and games on the British & Irish Lions tour of South Africa, said it was “no surprise” the All Blacks had been beaten as their opponents generated quicker ball from the breakdowns.
Yet another indicator of the irrelevance of Super Rugby for test rugby.
It's ridiculous that our Super Rugby teams & ABs don't seem to want to do the bloody basics of getting good numbers to their ball carriers to clean out opposition players at the breakdown with urgency/aggression... so hardly surprising we get so much slow ball, if that shite doesn't change we will keep on struggling.
I think there is many a coach that will dispel your theory on that in the modern game. They will have plenty of analysis around speed of ball vs attacking numbers elsewhere ie not much use having fast ball to then have your outsides outnumbered and potentially isolated without enough support.
The key is not for numbers but for efficiency.@ARHS I take your point but my call isn't for harder hits it is for more dynamic intent. There's a difference in my mind. Players like Ardie and Samisoni don't die easily with the ball. Players like Moody and Bridge do.
Players like Vai'i take the ball forward by running onto it at angles, players like the aging version of Whitelock take it statically and make a metre.
Some harsh and generalised examples on players there but they are meant to be illustrative not absolute.
It's difficult to find those players though. The likes of Blackadder bring plenty of dynamics but it has to be effective as well. Then players like Akira bring amazing dynamics but tend to switch it on and off.
It's easy to say what would work, Harder to find/develop the resources. -
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
It's easy to say what would work, Harder to find/develop the resources.
Ultimately, though, it's the pathways right. Australia throws up so many high quality cricketers as their lower grades ruthlessly expose flaws. NZ Rugby used to do the same - but the cattle quality seems to have dropped off significantly.
Is it the coaching brain drain? We just don't seem to innovate any more the way we used to; since 2015 I don't think we've seen us leading the world in many categories.
Henry reset this in 03/04 when he took over, kicked a bunch of dickheads out of the team, and changed the culture and quality significnatly. Do we need this again? Who could do it - it ain't gonne be Fozzie, that's for sure.
18 Tests to the world cup, and we're going to be praying for bolters like NMS to ignite our campaign.
Speaking of bolters, Taine Plumtree has looked bloody impressive in the three outings I've seen him in. Just seems to stand out on the field both pre-season and during games. The try scoring is a nice bonus as well
@nzzp I think a perfect storm, we have been losing players for years, but seemed to scrape by, then covid, new coaching regime and all our issues that had been bubbling under for years appear magnified.
Hopefully a blip, but the player and coach drain won't go away...although I guess if we aren't playing the attractive rugby to attract the eyes of the NH pundits, the player drain will inevitably slow...
