All Blacks 2022
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@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
If you need to bring in Cron to address the work of Feek and Plumtree, those two need to be fucked off. If Strawbridge is coming in to address the paucity of skills on attack, what the flying fuck is our current attack coach doing?
Did you read the article?
Well either that or by coincidence I raised two key points mentioned in the article.
It was pretty clear that these guys are being added as specialist 'experts' to add to the work being done by incumbents. Surely identifying and fixing weaknesses with experts is a good thing if no one that can add that value AND do the other work is available.
I'd say these guys are good because they concentrate on small aspects rather than be jackof all trades.That's a remarkably public servant take on it. If you need people to come in to "add" to the unacceptable work of others, those others clearly aren't up to the task. The All Blacks shouldn't be the environment where specialist coaches need assistance coming up to the standard required.
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
If you need to bring in Cron to address the work of Feek and Plumtree, those two need to be fucked off. If Strawbridge is coming in to address the paucity of skills on attack, what the flying fuck is our current attack coach doing?
Did you read the article?
Well either that or by coincidence I raised two key points mentioned in the article.
It was pretty clear that these guys are being added as specialist 'experts' to add to the work being done by incumbents. Surely identifying and fixing weaknesses with experts is a good thing if no one that can add that value AND do the other work is available.
I'd say these guys are good because they concentrate on small aspects rather than be jackof all trades.That's a remarkably public servant take on it. If you need people to come in to "add" to the unacceptable work of others, those others clearly aren't up to the task. The All Blacks shouldn't be the environment where specialist coaches need assistance coming up to the standard required.
Not a public service take at all. It's a pragmatic view on how you will be unlikely to find someone that is the best at everything.
The best managers will refer to SMEs for advice or give them certain tasks for their areas of expertise.
Straws may be considered the very best micro-skills coach in the country. Has specialist abilities that you want to take advantage of, yet isn't considered material for a assistant national coach.
I see nothing wrong in that or that throwing out the incumbent for someone else that alsoisn't the best in that area.
In no way am I arguing that the incumbents are the best person, I dont want to get into that in this discussion. I'm simply saying that I understand what they are trying to do and if Straws and Cron have been identified to fill needs that is probably a good thing. -
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
If you need to bring in Cron to address the work of Feek and Plumtree, those two need to be fucked off. If Strawbridge is coming in to address the paucity of skills on attack, what the flying fuck is our current attack coach doing?
Did you read the article?
Well either that or by coincidence I raised two key points mentioned in the article.
It was pretty clear that these guys are being added as specialist 'experts' to add to the work being done by incumbents. Surely identifying and fixing weaknesses with experts is a good thing if no one that can add that value AND do the other work is available.
I'd say these guys are good because they concentrate on small aspects rather than be jackof all trades.That's a remarkably public servant take on it. If you need people to come in to "add" to the unacceptable work of others, those others clearly aren't up to the task. The All Blacks shouldn't be the environment where specialist coaches need assistance coming up to the standard required.
Not a public service take at all. It's a pragmatic view on how you will be unlikely to find someone that is the best at everything.
The best managers will refer to SMEs for advice or give them certain tasks for their areas of expertise.
Straws may be considered the very best micro-skills coach in the country. Has specialist abilities that you want to take advantage of, yet isn't considered material for a assistant national coach.
I see nothing wrong in that or that throwing out the incumbent for someone else that alsoisn't the best in that area.
In no way am I arguing that the incumbents are the best person, I dont want to get into that in this discussion. I'm simply saying that I understand what they are trying to do and if Straws and Cron have been identified to fill needs that is probably a good thing.@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
If you need to bring in Cron to address the work of Feek and Plumtree, those two need to be fucked off. If Strawbridge is coming in to address the paucity of skills on attack, what the flying fuck is our current attack coach doing?
Did you read the article?
Well either that or by coincidence I raised two key points mentioned in the article.
It was pretty clear that these guys are being added as specialist 'experts' to add to the work being done by incumbents. Surely identifying and fixing weaknesses with experts is a good thing if no one that can add that value AND do the other work is available.
I'd say these guys are good because they concentrate on small aspects rather than be jackof all trades.That's a remarkably public servant take on it. If you need people to come in to "add" to the unacceptable work of others, those others clearly aren't up to the task. The All Blacks shouldn't be the environment where specialist coaches need assistance coming up to the standard required.
Not a public service take at all. It's a pragmatic view on how you will be unlikely to find someone that is the best at everything.
We already acknowledge that, hence why we have a forwards coach, a scrum coach, an attack coach etc.
The best managers will refer to SMEs for advice or give them certain tasks for their areas of expertise.
See above. Foster seems to be surrounding himself with consultants. It's chapter two of "Shit Managers Handbook". A book I know well from contracting and consulting for decades.
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If you need to bring in Cron to address the work of Feek and Plumtree, those two need to be fucked off. If Strawbridge is coming in to address the paucity of skills on attack, what the flying fuck is our current attack coach doing?
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
If you need to bring in Cron to address the work of Feek and Plumtree, those two need to be fucked off. If Strawbridge is coming in to address the paucity of skills on attack, what the flying fuck is our current attack coach doing?
Amen. The better news would be removing some of the existing coaching team.
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@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
Pub leaner like thinking going on here. I'm out.
Don't leave. How else are we to bathe in your exalted knowledge of high performing teams?
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@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
Pub leaner like thinking going on here. I'm out.
Don't leave. How else are we to bathe in your exalted knowledge of high performing teams?
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
Pub leaner like thinking going on here. I'm out.
Don't leave. How else are we to bathe in your exalted knowledge of high performing teams?
Hardly need much knowledge to recognise that good teams delegate tasks and look for people with expertise in areas of weakness.
The CEO has a Deputy that is the CFO who in turn pays for advice from a tax expert.People here are so keen to stick the boot into Foster and Co that they are coming up with rubbish. So you want a Head Coach that knows everything and has no need for assistants? And those assistants must, in turn, have the best knowledge about everything in their sphere?
It doen't happen that way in business, It doesn't happen that way with other country's rugby teams (some of who are better than us at the moment).
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@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
Pub leaner like thinking going on here. I'm out.
Don't leave. How else are we to bathe in your exalted knowledge of high performing teams?
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
Pub leaner like thinking going on here. I'm out.
Don't leave. How else are we to bathe in your exalted knowledge of high performing teams?
ah come on fella, that's a cheap shot.
Some discussion about whether additional skills coaches to support the specialists is legit. I'm far frmo convinced that the incumbents are really driving their portfolios. This feels a bit different to a specialist kicking coach workign with goalkickers, for instance - the question really is what are they bringing that the current lot aren't? And would you expect the incumbents to be able to deliver it?
More voices is risky. It can be useful, but clear, consistent and simple messages is often better than lots of different opinons.
I'm far from convinced
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I can understand the need for specialists, and in an ever changing landscape, it is good they are looking at this, but the way I see it, is they are just plugging gaps in the current coaches skillsets, that you assume werent there in previous coaching teams.
So Fozzie has been in charge for 2 years now, since then they have added Schmidt, Strawbridge and Cron to the coaching team, I assume completely new roles?
Surely you need to look closer at the existing team and understand why there is a need for these new positions...is there a gap coming through NPC/Super not preparing coaches adequately? Are player needs changing? Or is this team just not upto it?
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
Pub leaner like thinking going on here. I'm out.
Don't leave. How else are we to bathe in your exalted knowledge of high performing teams?
Hardly need much knowledge to recognise that good teams delegate tasks and look for people with expertise in areas of weakness.
The CEO has a Deputy that is the CFO who in turn pays for advice from a tax expert.People here are so keen to stick the boot into Foster and Co that they are coming up with rubbish. So you want a Head Coach that knows everything and has no need for assistants? And those assistants must, in turn, have the best knowledge about everything in their sphere?
It doen't happen that way in business, It doesn't happen that way with other country's rugby teams (some of who are better than us at the moment).
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
Pub leaner like thinking going on here. I'm out.
Don't leave. How else are we to bathe in your exalted knowledge of high performing teams?
Hardly need much knowledge to recognise that good teams delegate tasks and look for people with expertise in areas of weakness.
The CEO has a Deputy that is the CFO who in turn pays for advice from a tax expert.People here are so keen to stick the boot into Foster and Co that they are coming up with rubbish. So you want a Head Coach that knows everything and has no need for assistants? And those assistants must, in turn, have the best knowledge about everything in their sphere?
It doen't happen that way in business, It doesn't happen that way with other country's rugby teams (some of who are better than us at the moment).
yes...but there does come a point when you go..."isn't that your job?"...i cant just hire people to do the stuff im shit at or dont like...eventually my boss will work out that he can just keep one of us and that hiring me was a mistake....hmmmm
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I can understand the need for specialists, and in an ever changing landscape, it is good they are looking at this, but the way I see it, is they are just plugging gaps in the current coaches skillsets, that you assume werent there in previous coaching teams.
So Fozzie has been in charge for 2 years now, since then they have added Schmidt, Strawbridge and Cron to the coaching team, I assume completely new roles?
Surely you need to look closer at the existing team and understand why there is a need for these new positions...is there a gap coming through NPC/Super not preparing coaches adequately? Are player needs changing? Or is this team just not upto it?
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:
I can understand the need for specialists, and in an ever changing landscape, it is good they are looking at this, but the way I see it, is they are plugging gaps in the current coaches skillset.
So Fozzie has been in charge for 2 years now, since then they have added Schmidt, Strawbridge and Cron to the coaching team, I assume completely new roles?
Surely you need to look closer at the existing team and understand why there is a need for these new positions...is there a gap coming through NPC/Super not preparing coaches adequately? Are player needs changing? Or is this team just not upto it?
Wrong. Schmidt is replacing Fox. Strawbridge and Cron are (hopefully) adding some detail as part time 'experts'.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:
I can understand the need for specialists, and in an ever changing landscape, it is good they are looking at this, but the way I see it, is they are plugging gaps in the current coaches skillset.
So Fozzie has been in charge for 2 years now, since then they have added Schmidt, Strawbridge and Cron to the coaching team, I assume completely new roles?
Surely you need to look closer at the existing team and understand why there is a need for these new positions...is there a gap coming through NPC/Super not preparing coaches adequately? Are player needs changing? Or is this team just not upto it?
Wrong. Schmidt is replacing Fox. Strawbridge and Cron are (hopefully) adding some detail as part time 'experts'.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
Pub leaner like thinking going on here. I'm out.
Don't leave. How else are we to bathe in your exalted knowledge of high performing teams?
Hardly need much knowledge to recognise that good teams delegate tasks and look for people with expertise in areas of weakness.
The CEO has a Deputy that is the CFO who in turn pays for advice from a tax expert.People here are so keen to stick the boot into Foster and Co that they are coming up with rubbish. So you want a Head Coach that knows everything and has no need for assistants? And those assistants must, in turn, have the best knowledge about everything in their sphere?
It doen't happen that way in business, It doesn't happen that way with other country's rugby teams (some of who are better than us at the moment).
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
Pub leaner like thinking going on here. I'm out.
Don't leave. How else are we to bathe in your exalted knowledge of high performing teams?
Hardly need much knowledge to recognise that good teams delegate tasks and look for people with expertise in areas of weakness.
The CEO has a Deputy that is the CFO who in turn pays for advice from a tax expert.People here are so keen to stick the boot into Foster and Co that they are coming up with rubbish. So you want a Head Coach that knows everything and has no need for assistants?
That's an argument that no one is making here. Congrats on your straw man.
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
Pub leaner like thinking going on here. I'm out.
Don't leave. How else are we to bathe in your exalted knowledge of high performing teams?
ah come on fella, that's a cheap shot.
And calling people with different opinions "pub leaners" isn't?
Some discussion about whether additional skills coaches to support the specialists is legit. I'm far frmo convinced that the incumbents are really driving their portfolios. This feels a bit different to a specialist kicking coach workign with goalkickers, for instance - the question really is what are they bringing that the current lot aren't? And would you expect the incumbents to be able to deliver it?
More voices is risky. It can be useful, but clear, consistent and simple messages is often better than lots of different opinons.
See this post (https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/post/704781) and this one (https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/post/704790).
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
Pub leaner like thinking going on here. I'm out.
Don't leave. How else are we to bathe in your exalted knowledge of high performing teams?
Hardly need much knowledge to recognise that good teams delegate tasks and look for people with expertise in areas of weakness.
The CEO has a Deputy that is the CFO who in turn pays for advice from a tax expert.People here are so keen to stick the boot into Foster and Co that they are coming up with rubbish. So you want a Head Coach that knows everything and has no need for assistants? And those assistants must, in turn, have the best knowledge about everything in their sphere?
It doen't happen that way in business, It doesn't happen that way with other country's rugby teams (some of who are better than us at the moment).
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
Pub leaner like thinking going on here. I'm out.
Don't leave. How else are we to bathe in your exalted knowledge of high performing teams?
Hardly need much knowledge to recognise that good teams delegate tasks and look for people with expertise in areas of weakness.
The CEO has a Deputy that is the CFO who in turn pays for advice from a tax expert.Nope, for big business that's normal.
This is like the CFO paying for someone else to to do their own role because their performance isn't adequate. Basically paying twice for the same thing and eventually they will be found out and removed.
Public Servants and bad business are excellent at paying twice
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Surely before we start honing their skills, tactics and mental acuity we have to select the right cattle?
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@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
Pub leaner like thinking going on here. I'm out.
Don't leave. How else are we to bathe in your exalted knowledge of high performing teams?
Hardly need much knowledge to recognise that good teams delegate tasks and look for people with expertise in areas of weakness.
The CEO has a Deputy that is the CFO who in turn pays for advice from a tax expert.Nope, for big business that's normal.
This is like the CFO paying for someone else to to do their own role because their performance isn't adequate. Basically paying twice for the same thing and eventually they will be found out and removed.
Public Servants and bad business are excellent at paying twice
@hooroo said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
Pub leaner like thinking going on here. I'm out.
Don't leave. How else are we to bathe in your exalted knowledge of high performing teams?
Hardly need much knowledge to recognise that good teams delegate tasks and look for people with expertise in areas of weakness.
The CEO has a Deputy that is the CFO who in turn pays for advice from a tax expert.Nope, for big business that's normal.
This is like the CFO paying for someone else to to do their own role because their performance isn't adequate. Basically paying twice for the same thing and eventually they will be found out and removed.
Public Servants and bad business are excellent at paying twice
They have explained what Cron and Stawbridge are doing and it isn't doing someone else's job. So no, not twice for the same thing.
To me it's bad business if you cant recognise when someone else can improve an aspect to your benefit. Squeezing the little bit extra out.
So in the CFO example you have someone come to you as a specialist expert in tax and you assess that their expertise added in could net some savings. It is expertise gained by concentrating on being a specialist only and they are in demand and want to stay as a specialist. Their skills are over and above what meets the definition of adequate performance. -
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
Pub leaner like thinking going on here. I'm out.
Don't leave. How else are we to bathe in your exalted knowledge of high performing teams?
Hardly need much knowledge to recognise that good teams delegate tasks and look for people with expertise in areas of weakness.
The CEO has a Deputy that is the CFO who in turn pays for advice from a tax expert.People here are so keen to stick the boot into Foster and Co that they are coming up with rubbish. So you want a Head Coach that knows everything and has no need for assistants? And those assistants must, in turn, have the best knowledge about everything in their sphere?
It doen't happen that way in business, It doesn't happen that way with other country's rugby teams (some of who are better than us at the moment).
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
Pub leaner like thinking going on here. I'm out.
Don't leave. How else are we to bathe in your exalted knowledge of high performing teams?
People here are so keen to stick the boot into Foster and Co that they are coming up with rubbish. So you want a Head Coach that knows everything and has no need for assistants? And those assistants must, in turn, have the best knowledge about everything in their sphere?
People are criticizing Foster a lot because he's clearly a poor AB head coach - not about having a rocket scientist to run the show... all we want is a head coach & coaching staff that can coach with good common sense, so you then know they'll apply a good game plan, tactics, selections etc.
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@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
Pub leaner like thinking going on here. I'm out.
Don't leave. How else are we to bathe in your exalted knowledge of high performing teams?
People here are so keen to stick the boot into Foster and Co that they are coming up with rubbish. So you want a Head Coach that knows everything and has no need for assistants? And those assistants must, in turn, have the best knowledge about everything in their sphere?
People are criticizing Foster a lot because he's clearly a poor AB head coach - not about having a rocket scientist to run the show... all we want is a head coach & coaching staff that can coach with good common sense, so you then know they'll apply a good game plan, tactics, selections etc.
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
Pub leaner like thinking going on here. I'm out.
Don't leave. How else are we to bathe in your exalted knowledge of high performing teams?
People here are so keen to stick the boot into Foster and Co that they are coming up with rubbish. So you want a Head Coach that knows everything and has no need for assistants? And those assistants must, in turn, have the best knowledge about everything in their sphere?
People are criticizing Foster a lot because he's clearly a poor AB head coach - not about having a rocket scientist to run the show... all we want is a head coach & coaching staff that can coach with good common sense, so you then know they'll apply a good game plan, tactics, selections etc.
Thats not the point I was making at all.
Criticize them by all means but reasons have to be supported and not just rubbish like 'common sense'.
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@hooroo said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
Pub leaner like thinking going on here. I'm out.
Don't leave. How else are we to bathe in your exalted knowledge of high performing teams?
Hardly need much knowledge to recognise that good teams delegate tasks and look for people with expertise in areas of weakness.
The CEO has a Deputy that is the CFO who in turn pays for advice from a tax expert.Nope, for big business that's normal.
This is like the CFO paying for someone else to to do their own role because their performance isn't adequate. Basically paying twice for the same thing and eventually they will be found out and removed.
Public Servants and bad business are excellent at paying twice
They have explained what Cron and Stawbridge are doing and it isn't doing someone else's job. So no, not twice for the same thing.
To me it's bad business if you cant recognise when someone else can improve an aspect to your benefit. Squeezing the little bit extra out.
So in the CFO example you have someone come to you as a specialist expert in tax and you assess that their expertise added in could net some savings. It is expertise gained by concentrating on being a specialist only and they are in demand and want to stay as a specialist. Their skills are over and above what meets the definition of adequate performance.
