All Blacks 2022
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Just like people had idiotic levels of expectations of blindside flanker (they have to be the new Kaino), they have also have idiotic levels of expectations of the second five (they have to be the new Nonu). Gradually, the understanding seems to set in that the new 6 doesn't have to be another Kaino and that it is also ridiculous to continue making that comparison. There is only one Kaino. We don't need a new version; we need the balance of the backrow to be right. If the physicality can come from 7 and 8, if the 6 offers other advantages, then the 6 doesn't have to be that physical blindside. We need to look at the best combos, not just at the individual players making up the combos.
The same reasoning can be applied to the midfield. If the 12 isn't the physical specimen that Nonu was, it can still work if the balance of the midfield is right. It can work with a physical 13 (Rieko, Fainga'anuku offer that physicality in particular; Goodhue & ALB when healthy, although not as physical as the first two).
Havili has shown invaluable worth for the Crusaders in defence: he's one of the top tacklers in the backs in NZ and is very good at organising the defence. For the Crusaders, he's also a creator of tries. He's made try assists in practically every Crusaders game. Last year, he was excellent in the games until the SA test, but there were plenty that struggled from then on (Akira Ioane for example, do people want to dump him, too?).
It was clear, last year, that the ABs coaches used a game plan that didn't work and still stuck with it. Players had to stand too flat and were kicking too often. They were forced into structures that didn't suit their style of play. The ABs got away with it against all opponents except the stronger teams: South Africa, Ireland and France.
If the ABs coaches can come up with a game plan that uses the players' strengths, Havili (and others) can be huge assets to the ABs. It's not merely a case of the best SR players struggling with the step up to test level. It's Foster and co. struggling to design a game plan that works at test level. That includes forming the right combos and making them gel. Stick with them instead of chopping and changing.
I'm totally open to shifting Havili to the bench for someone else, if we can come up with someone else who's proven to be better. Jordie is promising at 12, but his problem is that he tries to do everything himself (defending, attacking, kicking, tackling) instead of directing others to do it. He's not an organiser (yet), but will learn (hopefully). RTS has proved himself at league test level, not rugby. He still has time, but it's premature to say he should be picked. Goodhue is more a 13 than a 12. Tupaea has 2nd season syndrome and has been very average, this year. PUJ and TUJ, how many SR games have they each played, played well and didn't break? Ridiculous to even suggest they should be considered, at the moment.
So maybe stop living in the past (Nonu/Smith) and realistically look at the best we have - and that definitely includes Havili - and improve the coaching. Make that backline gel, stick to combos, use game plans that uses their strenghts. And innovate, because we're too predictable.
Edit:
Oh, and stop being so negative!
@stargazer good post, but I'm still not sold on Havili, particularly if we play RM.
If you have a weak tackling 10, you need a bigger player outside them. I think that' swhy Goodhue got the run there. I was a big Havili fan, but as you say he ran into a wall against SA and didn't really recover. Like JB, he was a player shifted around to try and fix a problem.
We still don't seem to know the style of rugby we want to play. And honestly, our biggest headaches are the forwards, particularly the tight forwards, not in the backs. Arguing about which of two band aided 12s should play is not tackling (haha) the core issues our pack has.
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Just like people had idiotic levels of expectations of blindside flanker (they have to be the new Kaino), they have also have idiotic levels of expectations of the second five (they have to be the new Nonu). Gradually, the understanding seems to set in that the new 6 doesn't have to be another Kaino and that it is also ridiculous to continue making that comparison. There is only one Kaino. We don't need a new version; we need the balance of the backrow to be right. If the physicality can come from 7 and 8, if the 6 offers other advantages, then the 6 doesn't have to be that physical blindside. We need to look at the best combos, not just at the individual players making up the combos.
The same reasoning can be applied to the midfield. If the 12 isn't the physical specimen that Nonu was, it can still work if the balance of the midfield is right. It can work with a physical 13 (Rieko, Fainga'anuku offer that physicality in particular; Goodhue & ALB when healthy, although not as physical as the first two).
Havili has shown invaluable worth for the Crusaders in defence: he's one of the top tacklers in the backs in NZ and is very good at organising the defence. For the Crusaders, he's also a creator of tries. He's made try assists in practically every Crusaders game. Last year, he was excellent in the games until the SA test, but there were plenty that struggled from then on (Akira Ioane for example, do people want to dump him, too?).
It was clear, last year, that the ABs coaches used a game plan that didn't work and still stuck with it. Players had to stand too flat and were kicking too often. They were forced into structures that didn't suit their style of play. The ABs got away with it against all opponents except the stronger teams: South Africa, Ireland and France.
If the ABs coaches can come up with a game plan that uses the players' strengths, Havili (and others) can be huge assets to the ABs. It's not merely a case of the best SR players struggling with the step up to test level. It's Foster and co. struggling to design a game plan that works at test level. That includes forming the right combos and making them gel. Stick with them instead of chopping and changing.
I'm totally open to shifting Havili to the bench for someone else, if we can come up with someone else who's proven to be better. Jordie is promising at 12, but his problem is that he tries to do everything himself (defending, attacking, kicking, tackling) instead of directing others to do it. He's not an organiser (yet), but will learn (hopefully). RTS has proved himself at league test level, not rugby. He still has time, but it's premature to say he should be picked. Goodhue is more a 13 than a 12. Tupaea has 2nd season syndrome and has been very average, this year. PUJ and TUJ, how many SR games have they each played, played well and didn't break? Ridiculous to even suggest they should be considered, at the moment.
So maybe stop living in the past (Nonu/Smith) and realistically look at the best we have - and that definitely includes Havili - and improve the coaching. Make that backline gel, stick to combos, use game plans that uses their strenghts. And innovate, because we're too predictable.
Edit:
Oh, and stop being so negative!@stargazer said in All Blacks 2022:
Just like people had idiotic levels of expectations of blindside flanker (they have to be the new Kaino), they have also have idiotic levels of expectations of the second five (they have to be the new Nonu). Gradually, the understanding seems to set in that the new 6 doesn't have to be another Kaino and that it is also ridiculous to continue making that comparison. There is only one Kaino. We don't need a new version; we need the balance of the backrow to be right. If the physicality can come from 7 and 8, if the 6 offers other advantages, then the 6 doesn't have to be that physical blindside. We need to look at the best combos, not just at the individual players making up the combos.
The same reasoning can be applied to the midfield. If the 12 isn't the physical specimen that Nonu was, it can still work if the balance of the midfield is right. It can work with a physical 13 (Rieko, Fainga'anuku offer that physicality in particular; Goodhue & ALB when healthy, although not as physical as the first two).
Havili has shown invaluable worth for the Crusaders in defence: he's one of the top tacklers in the backs in NZ and is very good at organising the defence. For the Crusaders, he's also a creator of tries. He's made try assists in practically every Crusaders game. Last year, he was excellent in the games until the SA test, but there were plenty that struggled from then on (Akira Ioane for example, do people want to dump him, too?).
It was clear, last year, that the ABs coaches used a game plan that didn't work and still stuck with it. Players had to stand too flat and were kicking too often. They were forced into structures that didn't suit their style of play. The ABs got away with it against all opponents except the stronger teams: South Africa, Ireland and France.
If the ABs coaches can come up with a game plan that uses the players' strengths, Havili (and others) can be huge assets to the ABs. It's not merely a case of the best SR players struggling with the step up to test level. It's Foster and co. struggling to design a game plan that works at test level. That includes forming the right combos and making them gel. Stick with them instead of chopping and changing.
I'm totally open to shifting Havili to the bench for someone else, if we can come up with someone else who's proven to be better. Jordie is promising at 12, but his problem is that he tries to do everything himself (defending, attacking, kicking, tackling) instead of directing others to do it. He's not an organiser (yet), but will learn (hopefully). RTS has proved himself at league test level, not rugby. He still has time, but it's premature to say he should be picked. Goodhue is more a 13 than a 12. Tupaea has 2nd season syndrome and has been very average, this year. PUJ and TUJ, how many SR games have they each played, played well and didn't break? Ridiculous to even suggest they should be considered, at the moment.
So maybe stop living in the past (Nonu/Smith) and realistically look at the best we have - and that definitely includes Havili - and improve the coaching. Make that backline gel, stick to combos, use game plans that uses their strenghts. And innovate, because we're too predictable.
Edit:
Oh, and stop being so negative!Good post, but I had to check a few of those claims.
From a look at the ESPN stats, I there may be some recency bias in your view.
He has been improving as the season has progressed, but in the early games he was missing 3 and 4 tackles a game (Canes made 8, missed 3, Landers made 7, missed 4) but has had three good games lately missing 2, 0, and 1 against the Chiefs (12 made, 2 missed), Landers (15 made, 0 missed) and Canes (12 made, 1 missed) in the recent three games. Over the season he basically averages 12 made and 2 missed - a bit Owen Franksy.
He has 3 try assists total (2 versus the Chiefs in the second game and 1 versus the Landers two weeks ago). This last week he made the offload to create a try as well so it is worth understanding that the stats do not catch everything (as always). He averages one per game (quite consistently too with 6 in total from 6 games) but according to Super stats the leaders who might overlap with him are Tupaea who has 12 in total (and Barrett is there also with 12).
He averages 8 carries a game with 30 metres on average.
I'm not convinced about him at 12 mainly because I'm not satisfied that he can carry into contact effectively enough. If we are going to play him as second-five-eight then we need lots of runners around him and some big bodies as well so Leicester and Clarke would be two who might need to be part of the mix.
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@stargazer said in All Blacks 2022:
Just like people had idiotic levels of expectations of blindside flanker (they have to be the new Kaino), they have also have idiotic levels of expectations of the second five (they have to be the new Nonu). Gradually, the understanding seems to set in that the new 6 doesn't have to be another Kaino and that it is also ridiculous to continue making that comparison. There is only one Kaino. We don't need a new version; we need the balance of the backrow to be right. If the physicality can come from 7 and 8, if the 6 offers other advantages, then the 6 doesn't have to be that physical blindside. We need to look at the best combos, not just at the individual players making up the combos.
The same reasoning can be applied to the midfield. If the 12 isn't the physical specimen that Nonu was, it can still work if the balance of the midfield is right. It can work with a physical 13 (Rieko, Fainga'anuku offer that physicality in particular; Goodhue & ALB when healthy, although not as physical as the first two).
Havili has shown invaluable worth for the Crusaders in defence: he's one of the top tacklers in the backs in NZ and is very good at organising the defence. For the Crusaders, he's also a creator of tries. He's made try assists in practically every Crusaders game. Last year, he was excellent in the games until the SA test, but there were plenty that struggled from then on (Akira Ioane for example, do people want to dump him, too?).
It was clear, last year, that the ABs coaches used a game plan that didn't work and still stuck with it. Players had to stand too flat and were kicking too often. They were forced into structures that didn't suit their style of play. The ABs got away with it against all opponents except the stronger teams: South Africa, Ireland and France.
If the ABs coaches can come up with a game plan that uses the players' strengths, Havili (and others) can be huge assets to the ABs. It's not merely a case of the best SR players struggling with the step up to test level. It's Foster and co. struggling to design a game plan that works at test level. That includes forming the right combos and making them gel. Stick with them instead of chopping and changing.
I'm totally open to shifting Havili to the bench for someone else, if we can come up with someone else who's proven to be better. Jordie is promising at 12, but his problem is that he tries to do everything himself (defending, attacking, kicking, tackling) instead of directing others to do it. He's not an organiser (yet), but will learn (hopefully). RTS has proved himself at league test level, not rugby. He still has time, but it's premature to say he should be picked. Goodhue is more a 13 than a 12. Tupaea has 2nd season syndrome and has been very average, this year. PUJ and TUJ, how many SR games have they each played, played well and didn't break? Ridiculous to even suggest they should be considered, at the moment.
So maybe stop living in the past (Nonu/Smith) and realistically look at the best we have - and that definitely includes Havili - and improve the coaching. Make that backline gel, stick to combos, use game plans that uses their strenghts. And innovate, because we're too predictable.
Edit:
Oh, and stop being so negative!Good post, but I had to check a few of those claims.
From a look at the ESPN stats, I there may be some recency bias in your view.
He has been improving as the season has progressed, but in the early games he was missing 3 and 4 tackles a game (Canes made 8, missed 3, Landers made 7, missed 4) but has had three good games lately missing 2, 0, and 1 against the Chiefs (12 made, 2 missed), Landers (15 made, 0 missed) and Canes (12 made, 1 missed) in the recent three games. Over the season he basically averages 12 made and 2 missed - a bit Owen Franksy.
He has 3 try assists total (2 versus the Chiefs in the second game and 1 versus the Landers two weeks ago). This last week he made the offload to create a try as well so it is worth understanding that the stats do not catch everything (as always). He averages one per game (quite consistently too with 6 in total from 6 games) but according to Super stats the leaders who might overlap with him are Tupaea who has 12 in total (and Barrett is there also with 12).
He averages 8 carries a game with 30 metres on average.
I'm not convinced about him at 12 mainly because I'm not satisfied that he can carry into contact effectively enough. If we are going to play him as second-five-eight then we need lots of runners around him and some big bodies as well so Leicester and Clarke would be two who might need to be part of the mix.
@gt12 You've just reinforced my point. The ballance in the midfield needs to be right. The Chiefs v Crusaders game (in Hamilton) is a good example of a game where this worked really well, with Havili and Fainga'anuku combining. I prefer that over the Havili - Ennor combo. What's wrong with big runners like Leicester and Clarke wreaking havoc in the backline?
Oh, and which player doesn't usually improve over the season? Most players don't have their top form in the first few games.
On top of that, the importance of stats is limited and they only tell part of the story. For example, in the Hurricanes v Crusaders game, he broke the line, passed to - I think - Grace who passed to Jordan to score. So Grace gets the try assist, while it was Havili who created the scoring opportunity. That happens often.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
It's a sensible approach on the assumption Havili has improved his game.
Has he though?
He is the same type of player - a jinky 12 with a kicking game.@frank said in All Blacks 2022:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
It's a sensible approach on the assumption Havili has improved his game.
Has he though?
He is the same type of player - a jinky 12 with a kicking game.I honestly don't know, I just think Foster will start him at 12 on the assumption he will have learnt from last year and take his Test experience as a plus
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@victor-meldrew Jordan to 15 - he is the inevitable future there- maybe Jordi see's it that way and is keen to bed himself at 12 to secure himself a spot.
@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2022:
@victor-meldrew Jordan to 15 - he is the inevitable future there- maybe Jordi see's it that way and is keen to bed himself at 12 to secure himself a spot.
I'm not convinced TBF. If there's a weakness in his game it's around defence where he can look a little fragile. He's a world-class winger, so I'd leave him on the wing where he adds the most value. Stick BB at 15 if Jordie does end up with the 12 slot
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@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2022:
@victor-meldrew Jordan to 15 - he is the inevitable future there- maybe Jordi see's it that way and is keen to bed himself at 12 to secure himself a spot.
I'm not convinced TBF. If there's a weakness in his game it's around defence where he can look a little fragile. He's a world-class winger, so I'd leave him on the wing where he adds the most value. Stick BB at 15 if Jordie does end up with the 12 slot
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2022:
@victor-meldrew Jordan to 15 - he is the inevitable future there- maybe Jordi see's it that way and is keen to bed himself at 12 to secure himself a spot.
I'm not convinced TBF. If there's a weakness in his game it's around defence where he can look a little fragile. He's a world-class winger, so I'd leave him on the wing where he adds the most value. Stick BB at 15 if Jordie does end up with the 12 slot
If BB is at 15 that would mean RM at 10. I am hoping we have moved on from having both RM and BB on the field together. It hasn't worked that well so far and I think it's detrimental to RM's game.
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Will be interesting to see how Joe Schmidt influences decisions.
One thing for sure is that goal kicking will be high on list, so if BB starts expect Jordie to be there somewhere.
Blues backs look significantly more structured since Joe’s return. -
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2022:
@victor-meldrew Jordan to 15 - he is the inevitable future there- maybe Jordi see's it that way and is keen to bed himself at 12 to secure himself a spot.
I'm not convinced TBF. If there's a weakness in his game it's around defence where he can look a little fragile. He's a world-class winger, so I'd leave him on the wing where he adds the most value. Stick BB at 15 if Jordie does end up with the 12 slot
If BB is at 15 that would mean RM at 10. I am hoping we have moved on from having both RM and BB on the field together. It hasn't worked that well so far and I think it's detrimental to RM's game.
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks 2022:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2022:
@victor-meldrew Jordan to 15 - he is the inevitable future there- maybe Jordi see's it that way and is keen to bed himself at 12 to secure himself a spot.
I'm not convinced TBF. If there's a weakness in his game it's around defence where he can look a little fragile. He's a world-class winger, so I'd leave him on the wing where he adds the most value. Stick BB at 15 if Jordie does end up with the 12 slot
If BB is at 15 that would mean RM at 10. I am hoping we have moved on from having both RM and BB on the field together. It hasn't worked that well so far and I think it's detrimental to RM's game.
That sort of dual playmaking role was a silly idea, confuses things, just have your 10 running the ship... I'd have RM at 10, whereas BB tends to have brain explosions in that position.
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Will be interesting to see how Joe Schmidt influences decisions.
One thing for sure is that goal kicking will be high on list, so if BB starts expect Jordie to be there somewhere.
Blues backs look significantly more structured since Joe’s return.@pakman said in All Blacks 2022:
Will be interesting to see how Joe Schmidt influences decisions.
I certainly hope he brings some common sense decision making into this coaching staff, otherwise we're going to get the same rubbish as last season.
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@gt12 You've just reinforced my point. The ballance in the midfield needs to be right. The Chiefs v Crusaders game (in Hamilton) is a good example of a game where this worked really well, with Havili and Fainga'anuku combining. I prefer that over the Havili - Ennor combo. What's wrong with big runners like Leicester and Clarke wreaking havoc in the backline?
Oh, and which player doesn't usually improve over the season? Most players don't have their top form in the first few games.
On top of that, the importance of stats is limited and they only tell part of the story. For example, in the Hurricanes v Crusaders game, he broke the line, passed to - I think - Grace who passed to Jordan to score. So Grace gets the try assist, while it was Havili who created the scoring opportunity. That happens often.
@stargazer said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 You've just reinforced my point. The ballance in the midfield needs to be right. The Chiefs v Crusaders game (in Hamilton) is a good example of a game where this worked really well, with Havili and Fainga'anuku combining. I prefer that over the Havili - Ennor combo. What's wrong with big runners like Leicester and Clarke wreaking havoc in the backline?
Oh, and which player doesn't usually improve over the season? Most players don't have their top form in the first few games.
On top of that, the importance of stats is limited and they only tell part of the story. For example, in the Hurricanes v Crusaders game, he broke the line, passed to - I think - Grace who passed to Jordan to score. So Grace gets the try assist, while it was Havili who created the scoring opportunity. That happens often.
You’ll notice I mentioned that offload and try. We had some discussion on the game thread that this type of play is almost exactly the sort of opportunity that won’t present itself against Ireland etc. I think that his rugby smarts to hunt out mismatches is really impressive but most of the NH teams have far improvedb defenses versus SH super rugby.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
@stargazer said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 You've just reinforced my point. The ballance in the midfield needs to be right. The Chiefs v Crusaders game (in Hamilton) is a good example of a game where this worked really well, with Havili and Fainga'anuku combining. I prefer that over the Havili - Ennor combo. What's wrong with big runners like Leicester and Clarke wreaking havoc in the backline?
Oh, and which player doesn't usually improve over the season? Most players don't have their top form in the first few games.
On top of that, the importance of stats is limited and they only tell part of the story. For example, in the Hurricanes v Crusaders game, he broke the line, passed to - I think - Grace who passed to Jordan to score. So Grace gets the try assist, while it was Havili who created the scoring opportunity. That happens often.
You’ll notice I mentioned that offload and try. We had some discussion on the game thread that this type of play is almost exactly the sort of opportunity that won’t present itself against Ireland etc. I think that his rugby smarts to hunt out mismatches is really impressive but most of the NH teams have far improvedb defenses versus SH super rugby.
We are definitely missing players with the ability to pick out a player with a pass, like Snake and in later years Nonu. Taking it to the line and trying to offload all the time loses its effectiveness
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
@stargazer said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 You've just reinforced my point. The ballance in the midfield needs to be right. The Chiefs v Crusaders game (in Hamilton) is a good example of a game where this worked really well, with Havili and Fainga'anuku combining. I prefer that over the Havili - Ennor combo. What's wrong with big runners like Leicester and Clarke wreaking havoc in the backline?
Oh, and which player doesn't usually improve over the season? Most players don't have their top form in the first few games.
On top of that, the importance of stats is limited and they only tell part of the story. For example, in the Hurricanes v Crusaders game, he broke the line, passed to - I think - Grace who passed to Jordan to score. So Grace gets the try assist, while it was Havili who created the scoring opportunity. That happens often.
You’ll notice I mentioned that offload and try. We had some discussion on the game thread that this type of play is almost exactly the sort of opportunity that won’t present itself against Ireland etc. I think that his rugby smarts to hunt out mismatches is really impressive but most of the NH teams have far improvedb defenses versus SH super rugby.
We are definitely missing players with the ability to pick out a player with a pass, like Snake and in later years Nonu. Taking it to the line and trying to offload all the time loses its effectiveness
@canefan said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
@stargazer said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 You've just reinforced my point. The ballance in the midfield needs to be right. The Chiefs v Crusaders game (in Hamilton) is a good example of a game where this worked really well, with Havili and Fainga'anuku combining. I prefer that over the Havili - Ennor combo. What's wrong with big runners like Leicester and Clarke wreaking havoc in the backline?
Oh, and which player doesn't usually improve over the season? Most players don't have their top form in the first few games.
On top of that, the importance of stats is limited and they only tell part of the story. For example, in the Hurricanes v Crusaders game, he broke the line, passed to - I think - Grace who passed to Jordan to score. So Grace gets the try assist, while it was Havili who created the scoring opportunity. That happens often.
You’ll notice I mentioned that offload and try. We had some discussion on the game thread that this type of play is almost exactly the sort of opportunity that won’t present itself against Ireland etc. I think that his rugby smarts to hunt out mismatches is really impressive but most of the NH teams have far improvedb defenses versus SH super rugby.
We are definitely missing players with the ability to pick out a player with a pass, like Snake and in later years Nonu. Taking it to the line and trying to offload all the time loses its effectiveness
Peak Weepu was awesome with that - his skills to hit the right player in traffic was ridiculous. Sensational skillset.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
@stargazer said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 You've just reinforced my point. The ballance in the midfield needs to be right. The Chiefs v Crusaders game (in Hamilton) is a good example of a game where this worked really well, with Havili and Fainga'anuku combining. I prefer that over the Havili - Ennor combo. What's wrong with big runners like Leicester and Clarke wreaking havoc in the backline?
Oh, and which player doesn't usually improve over the season? Most players don't have their top form in the first few games.
On top of that, the importance of stats is limited and they only tell part of the story. For example, in the Hurricanes v Crusaders game, he broke the line, passed to - I think - Grace who passed to Jordan to score. So Grace gets the try assist, while it was Havili who created the scoring opportunity. That happens often.
You’ll notice I mentioned that offload and try. We had some discussion on the game thread that this type of play is almost exactly the sort of opportunity that won’t present itself against Ireland etc. I think that his rugby smarts to hunt out mismatches is really impressive but most of the NH teams have far improvedb defenses versus SH super rugby.
We are definitely missing players with the ability to pick out a player with a pass, like Snake and in later years Nonu. Taking it to the line and trying to offload all the time loses its effectiveness
Peak Weepu was awesome with that - his skills to hit the right player in traffic was ridiculous. Sensational skillset.
At his best, Weepu was like a 9/10. We needed it in the 2011 RWC
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
@stargazer said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 You've just reinforced my point. The ballance in the midfield needs to be right. The Chiefs v Crusaders game (in Hamilton) is a good example of a game where this worked really well, with Havili and Fainga'anuku combining. I prefer that over the Havili - Ennor combo. What's wrong with big runners like Leicester and Clarke wreaking havoc in the backline?
Oh, and which player doesn't usually improve over the season? Most players don't have their top form in the first few games.
On top of that, the importance of stats is limited and they only tell part of the story. For example, in the Hurricanes v Crusaders game, he broke the line, passed to - I think - Grace who passed to Jordan to score. So Grace gets the try assist, while it was Havili who created the scoring opportunity. That happens often.
You’ll notice I mentioned that offload and try. We had some discussion on the game thread that this type of play is almost exactly the sort of opportunity that won’t present itself against Ireland etc. I think that his rugby smarts to hunt out mismatches is really impressive but most of the NH teams have far improvedb defenses versus SH super rugby.
We are definitely missing players with the ability to pick out a player with a pass, like Snake and in later years Nonu. Taking it to the line and trying to offload all the time loses its effectiveness
@canefan said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
@stargazer said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 You've just reinforced my point. The ballance in the midfield needs to be right. The Chiefs v Crusaders game (in Hamilton) is a good example of a game where this worked really well, with Havili and Fainga'anuku combining. I prefer that over the Havili - Ennor combo. What's wrong with big runners like Leicester and Clarke wreaking havoc in the backline?
Oh, and which player doesn't usually improve over the season? Most players don't have their top form in the first few games.
On top of that, the importance of stats is limited and they only tell part of the story. For example, in the Hurricanes v Crusaders game, he broke the line, passed to - I think - Grace who passed to Jordan to score. So Grace gets the try assist, while it was Havili who created the scoring opportunity. That happens often.
You’ll notice I mentioned that offload and try. We had some discussion on the game thread that this type of play is almost exactly the sort of opportunity that won’t present itself against Ireland etc. I think that his rugby smarts to hunt out mismatches is really impressive but most of the NH teams have far improvedb defenses versus SH super rugby.
We are definitely missing players with the ability to pick out a player with a pass, like Snake and in later years Nonu. Taking it to the line and trying to offload all the time loses its effectiveness
memory isn't clear because i don't watch replays but
I don't remember lots of players in motion being a feature of 2021 All Black rugby. No point picking player how can find someone with a pass when no one is running in to holes.
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Aaron Smith is excellent at hitting players in traffic, but as @mariner4life says, we havent had many players moving providing opposition with options, meaning Smiths options werent that great in the past couple of seasons.
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Aaron Smith is excellent at hitting players in traffic, but as @mariner4life says, we havent had many players moving providing opposition with options, meaning Smiths options werent that great in the past couple of seasons.
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@taniwharugby as good as Arron he's been passed by a couple
@george33 not for passing, IMO, Nock is possibly the closest for hitting runners in traffic to Smith, but he lacks consistancy and has other flaws
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
@stargazer said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 You've just reinforced my point. The ballance in the midfield needs to be right. The Chiefs v Crusaders game (in Hamilton) is a good example of a game where this worked really well, with Havili and Fainga'anuku combining. I prefer that over the Havili - Ennor combo. What's wrong with big runners like Leicester and Clarke wreaking havoc in the backline?
Oh, and which player doesn't usually improve over the season? Most players don't have their top form in the first few games.
On top of that, the importance of stats is limited and they only tell part of the story. For example, in the Hurricanes v Crusaders game, he broke the line, passed to - I think - Grace who passed to Jordan to score. So Grace gets the try assist, while it was Havili who created the scoring opportunity. That happens often.
You’ll notice I mentioned that offload and try. We had some discussion on the game thread that this type of play is almost exactly the sort of opportunity that won’t present itself against Ireland etc. I think that his rugby smarts to hunt out mismatches is really impressive but most of the NH teams have far improvedb defenses versus SH super rugby.
We are definitely missing players with the ability to pick out a player with a pass, like Snake and in later years Nonu. Taking it to the line and trying to offload all the time loses its effectiveness
memory isn't clear because i don't watch replays but
I don't remember lots of players in motion being a feature of 2021 All Black rugby. No point picking player how can find someone with a pass when no one is running in to holes.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
I don't remember lots of players in motion being a feature of 2021 All Black rugby. No point picking player how can find someone with a pass when no one is running in to holes.
I mentioned in the props thread that the tight 5 sucked at moving bodies last year. Another issue was the AB's set up their attack more shallow than the SR sides
Slow ball plus flat attack. Yuck. Thats why we got a static mess IMO. The timing looked shit and we even struggled to find space by passing out the back because the defence was up by then
Then there's a 10 and 12 that like travelling sideways to look for space..
If the tight forwards nail their role everything will look better. I do wonder if we need to set up deeper like the players are used to at SR level
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Form/ABs squad so far?:
Loose head prop: Ethan de groot, Alex Hogman, Joe Moody?
Hooker: Codie Taylor, Asafo Aumua, Samisoni Taukei'aho
Tight Head prop: Ofa Tu'ungafasi, Tyrel Lomax, Ollie Norris?
Lock: Tupou Vaii, Scott Barrett, Brodie Retallick
Flanker/ No8: Ardie Savea, Sam Cane, Dalton Papalii, Ethan Blackadder, Hoskins Sotutu, Luke Jacobson
Halfback: Aaron Smith, Finlay Christie, Brad Webber
Fly half: Beauden Barrett, Richie Mo'unga, Stephen Perofeta
Winger/ Fullbacks: Leicester Fainga'anuku, Sevu Reece, Caleb Clarke, Jordie Barrett, Will Jordan
Centre: David Havili, Rieko Ioane, Quinn Tupaea, Jack Goodhue-when fit
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Form/ABs squad so far?:
Loose head prop: Ethan de groot, Alex Hogman, Joe Moody?
Hooker: Codie Taylor, Asafo Aumua, Samisoni Taukei'aho
Tight Head prop: Ofa Tu'ungafasi, Tyrel Lomax, Ollie Norris?
Lock: Tupou Vaii, Scott Barrett, Brodie Retallick
Flanker/ No8: Ardie Savea, Sam Cane, Dalton Papalii, Ethan Blackadder, Hoskins Sotutu, Luke Jacobson
Halfback: Aaron Smith, Finlay Christie, Brad Webber
Fly half: Beauden Barrett, Richie Mo'unga, Stephen Perofeta
Winger/ Fullbacks: Leicester Fainga'anuku, Sevu Reece, Caleb Clarke, Jordie Barrett, Will Jordan
Centre: David Havili, Rieko Ioane, Quinn Tupaea, Jack Goodhue-when fit
@mackerzzzz Samisoni has to be included surely
