Crusaders v Blues
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A lot of posts about dalton and sotutu but I thought Robinson was outstanding in the first half. His ruck clear outs were top class: efficient, accurate, repetitive.
I like Leicester but he has to have a Reece work rate if he wants higher honours.
Provided the selectors make the right choices the ABs should have a good team. They really need to back the younger props coming thru. Ofa was great for the blues but the crusaders newell was also very good when he came on.
Crusaders are really missing a genuine top class loose forward. Best of the bunch is probably blackadder but grace is all sorts of meh.
@billy-tell said in Crusaders v Blues:
Provided the selectors make the right choices the ABs should have a good team.
While Foster has done a good job developing players, the big issue is going to be getting the right 6/7/8 combination. Be interesting to see how how Akira Ioane goes when he returns.
Crusaders are really missing a genuine top class loose forward.
Thought Blackadder was average today compared to the Blues loose 3 (outstanding) but think he's got great potential
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Both Grace and Sotutu have been playing really well. Sotutu used to go missing when the physicality was ramped up but this year has really stamped his mark, one of the best on the park in the last few games. I get the feeling both these players will be wearing black and having some real ding-dong battles.
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Is this the changing of the guard?
I wouldn’t go quite that far yet, simply because the Crusaders have history, quality across the park, a fantastic coaching team, and suffered from a lack of players for a significant amount of time in this game due to Scott Barrett stupidity.
However, the Blues appear to be back. A Blues win in Christchurch breaks the Spencer curse and suggests that finally the cracks in the Saders armor might be problematic; principally they have recently been giving up points after scoring themselves, which is very un-Crusaders like.
Furthermore, the Blues are starting to show some steel; the defense is beginning to be trustworthy. Even if it seems suicidal to kick to the most dangerous back three in the competition, they somehow managed to hold on. They held out the Saders for the final five minutes – when I was sure they would concede a try. Looking at the game stats, the Saders had plenty of opportunities too, with 57% possession and 58% territory, including winning 100% of their ball at setpiece. There is nothing off with their performance except two acts of stupidity from Barrett and Havili – and perhaps the 9 to 4 penalty count. They had more ball (118 vs 85), ran more metres (451 vs.372), and kicked less but better than the Blues.
Nevertheless, the Blues won. Although it was a team effort, certain players stood out. As I wrote in the MOTM thread, Dalton Papalii has fully arrived as the successor to Cane. He was the best player on the park; he ran for 52 with 6 defenders beaten and two clean breaks. He made 21 tackles (with none missed) and lead the team without having to ask the coaches for help
While Rieko only ran for 17 metres, his defense was fucking unbelievable . He made 16 tackles including some absolute try savers (he missed 2) and I can see why the AB coaches might see him as a weapon at 13 not only for his proficiency on turnover ball on attack, but also the speed with which he can cover on defence. It was likely the winning the of the game. As I wrote on the MOTM thread, I’m now fully convinced he is the answer at 13, so the question is who to match him with at 12. Havili was pretty awesome for the Saders at times tonight (apart from the YC), but is he the right mix with Rieko? In memory of the Baron, ‘please discuss’...
The ABs need a TH prop that can run and play on the ball. Ofa – tonight - was exactly what we need, it was a big statement game from him. He ran for 38 metres, conceded no penalties, and didn’t miss a tackle. Many of his runs led to breaks as well.
As many have mentioned, lots of others were good too. For example, Sotutu had 15 made and none missed, while Romano made 12 and missed 1 and was certainly trying to send a message.
For the Saders, it’s probably a wake-up call and I still believe they are the favorites. Simply put, their championship pedigree is not something to ignore from one defeat. They have the most exciting player in NZ rugby in Will Jordan (152 metres, 11 runs, 17 passes, 3 clean breaks, 7 defenders beaten) and although the three turnovers are still an issue, his defence is becoming more reliable with 5 made and 1 missed. I, like many, was frustrated by the Blues kicking to him but the fact that their defense (just) held on whilst giving the Saders that much ball to attack from deep, is a statement in itself.
They’ve also found an exciting new lock in Gallagher (Gallawillis) who made 15 and missed 1 and looks like he has been playing at this level for years.
They always looked like they’d steal it at the end, only being thwarted thanks to an incredible chase and tackle by Ioane and Papalii.
Beyond that, their spine stood up well in the fightback – Mo’unga was dangerous with 8 defenders beaten (although his defence was also exposed a bit in this game), while Taylor and Grace were strong with 22 carries between them.
Looking towards the finals, you have to expect these teams to see each other again and I cannot fucking wait.
@gt12 I think rather thank chinks in the Crusader armour it is the rise of the blues.
Let's not forget they had about 25 odd mins with 14 players and few with 13, and scored while down too.
For me this will hopefully light a fire with the Crusaders and Blues, plus we have the Chiefs bubbling under capable on thier day of beating them too...suddenly with some of the play and way we played, there is hope.when these fellas.pull on black.
Both teams played some great code last night.
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@gt12 I think rather thank chinks in the Crusader armour it is the rise of the blues.
Let's not forget they had about 25 odd mins with 14 players and few with 13, and scored while down too.
For me this will hopefully light a fire with the Crusaders and Blues, plus we have the Chiefs bubbling under capable on thier day of beating them too...suddenly with some of the play and way we played, there is hope.when these fellas.pull on black.
Both teams played some great code last night.
@taniwharugby I disagree about the crusaders.
You saw it last year or two, they don't have the cattle they used to. The legacy and coaching gets them so far, but it's not everything.
Last year they were in a real contest at Eden Park and a couple of tries blew out the scoreline. They were massively up for that game, but drew against the hurricanes the week after and then lost the week after. Then struggled through the Australian games and didn't make the final.
This year they've been playing poorly and winning, until last night where they really stepped up, but lost.
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@taniwharugby I disagree about the crusaders.
You saw it last year or two, they don't have the cattle they used to. The legacy and coaching gets them so far, but it's not everything.
Last year they were in a real contest at Eden Park and a couple of tries blew out the scoreline. They were massively up for that game, but drew against the hurricanes the week after and then lost the week after. Then struggled through the Australian games and didn't make the final.
This year they've been playing poorly and winning, until last night where they really stepped up, but lost.
@nzzp tbf they haven't had to step up much and still win, they were doing what they needed to, which is what good sides do, maybe lacking a ruthless edge though.
Don't get me wrong they aren't up there with some of the great crusader sides, but they are still a very good side, and how often are good teams dragged down to the level of the opposition, which tbf ain't been that great in recent times
But last night they were ready for a different Blues team, and stepped up, as above, I hope this lights thier fire to move up a notch now which will push the blues too, in turn driving the Chiefs and hopefully those other 3 teams too
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@duluth said in Crusaders v Blues:
Blues loosies got through plenty of tackles
Robinson 10 (2 misses)
Papali'i 21 (0 misses)
Sotutu 15 (0 misses)Worth mentioning Ioanes defensive game too: 16 tackles, 2 misses. That's an usually high number of tackles for a centre
One stat site had Sotutu at 20 tackles and Papali’i at 23.
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A lot of posts about dalton and sotutu but I thought Robinson was outstanding in the first half. His ruck clear outs were top class: efficient, accurate, repetitive.
I like Leicester but he has to have a Reece work rate if he wants higher honours.
Provided the selectors make the right choices the ABs should have a good team. They really need to back the younger props coming thru. Ofa was great for the blues but the crusaders newell was also very good when he came on.
Crusaders are really missing a genuine top class loose forward. Best of the bunch is probably blackadder but grace is all sorts of meh.
@billy-tell said in Crusaders v Blues:
A lot of posts about dalton and sotutu but I thought Robinson was outstanding in the first half. His ruck clear outs were top class: efficient, accurate, repetitive.
I like Leicester but he has to have a Reece work rate if he wants higher honours.
Provided the selectors make the right choices the ABs should have a good team. They really need to back the younger props coming thru. Ofa was great for the blues but the crusaders newell was also very good when he came on.
Crusaders are really missing a genuine top class loose forward. Best of the bunch is probably blackadder but grace is all sorts of meh.
@billy-tell said in Crusaders v Blues:
crusaders newell was also very good when he came on.In the lead up to that tackle on Gardiner in the corner there was a passage of play where Newell was barging towards the line with a couple of Blues on him. He was being assisted by a Crusader I think. Anyway, a third Blue just managed to keep hold of Newell's foot when Newell had momentum and was a metre or so from the line. That was a definite try saving effort. And this was a long winded way of saying yep, I agree, Newell did well.
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Every other NZ team has beaten the Crusaders in Christchurch in recent years so this isn't exactly a new phenomenon.
@bovidae said in Crusaders v Blues:
Every other NZ team has beaten the Crusaders in Christchurch in recent years so this isn't exactly a new phenomenon.
Look at these Chiefs supporters trying to minimise the Blues moment in the sun, breaking an 18 year hoodoo….
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Those talking up Perofeta for the ABs were premature. He showed a lack of big game temperament in this game.
Papali'i - the best player on the field.
I'm going to praise Fraser as well, who didn't get fooled by either team trying to milk penalties.
No idea how the commentary was I didn't listen to it!
@bovidae said in Crusaders v Blues:
Those talking up Perofeta for the ABs were premature. He showed a lack of big game temperament in this game.
Papali'i - the best player on the field.
I'm going to praise Fraser as well, who didn't get fooled by either team trying to milk penalties.
No idea how the commentary was I didn't listen to it!
Nah. Still think he's been the next best 10, and went ok.
Compare his efforts to Mo'unga who also missed kicks and tackles.
Edit: was not previously a fan.
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Every other NZ team has beaten the Crusaders in Christchurch in recent years so this isn't exactly a new phenomenon.
@bovidae said in Crusaders v Blues:
Every other NZ team has beaten the Crusaders in Christchurch in recent years so this isn't exactly a new phenomenon.
Nope. To me the difference is the crusaders playing poorly and losing, and them targeting a game, getting up for it, playing well and then losing.
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@bovidae said in Crusaders v Blues:
Those talking up Perofeta for the ABs were premature. He showed a lack of big game temperament in this game.
Papali'i - the best player on the field.
I'm going to praise Fraser as well, who didn't get fooled by either team trying to milk penalties.
No idea how the commentary was I didn't listen to it!
Nah. Still think he's been the next best 10, and went ok.
Compare his efforts to Mo'unga who also missed kicks and tackles.
Edit: was not previously a fan.
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While it turned into a very good game in the end, I still think the cards spoiled it a bit in terms of knowing where each team is really at in relation to the other. I suspect the Blues have their noses in front based on the play before the two cards, but we still have to keep in mind the Blues very nearly let this game slip/the Crusaders very nearly won.
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@nzzp tbf they haven't had to step up much and still win, they were doing what they needed to, which is what good sides do, maybe lacking a ruthless edge though.
Don't get me wrong they aren't up there with some of the great crusader sides, but they are still a very good side, and how often are good teams dragged down to the level of the opposition, which tbf ain't been that great in recent times
But last night they were ready for a different Blues team, and stepped up, as above, I hope this lights thier fire to move up a notch now which will push the blues too, in turn driving the Chiefs and hopefully those other 3 teams too
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@bovidae said in Crusaders v Blues:
Those talking up Perofeta for the ABs were premature. He showed a lack of big game temperament in this game.
Papali'i - the best player on the field.
I'm going to praise Fraser as well, who didn't get fooled by either team trying to milk penalties.
No idea how the commentary was I didn't listen to it!
Nah. Still think he's been the next best 10, and went ok.
Compare his efforts to Mo'unga who also missed kicks and tackles.
Edit: was not previously a fan.
@booboo said in Crusaders v Blues:
Nah. Still think he's been the next best 10, and went ok.
Didn't watch too much of him last year, but he seems to be turning into a pretty mature player. Not his best game today, but he'll learn from that.
@tim I think Foster will want to have a good look at him in the AB camp at the very least and to give Foster some credit, he has done well picking and handling new ABs
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I've only seen a YouTube highlights package but have to say well played to the Blues, a deserved win. Papali'i clearly the star turn in either forward pack but Jordan seems to have also had another big night. It's now a Papali'i vs Savea debate for mine.
As an aside, I was quite dismayed by the lack of gas shown by Dom Gardiner as he pretty much lumbered towards the corner. He had a head start and the angle from around 22 out but was easily mown down well short of the corner. He's supposed to be a 6 (albeit covering lock in this 23) and should be able to make more of a contest of that situation.
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@taniwharugby they are really good, but sides will back themselves to get up. Their ceiling isn't what past sides have been.
More importantly, the conveyor belt of talent is weaker than it's been for ages
@nzzp said in Crusaders v Blues:
@taniwharugby they are really good, but sides will back themselves to get up. Their ceiling isn't what past sides have been.
More importantly, the conveyor belt of talent is weaker than it's been for ages
Agree, I and other Sader fans have been beating this drum for a while now. There is not the depth there once was and there are some positions where the starters are just Super level at best. In saying that a couple of youngsters have popped their heads up high enough this year to suggest that there is still some talent coming through.
