Crusaders v Blues
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@taniwharugby I disagree about the crusaders.
You saw it last year or two, they don't have the cattle they used to. The legacy and coaching gets them so far, but it's not everything.
Last year they were in a real contest at Eden Park and a couple of tries blew out the scoreline. They were massively up for that game, but drew against the hurricanes the week after and then lost the week after. Then struggled through the Australian games and didn't make the final.
This year they've been playing poorly and winning, until last night where they really stepped up, but lost.
@nzzp tbf they haven't had to step up much and still win, they were doing what they needed to, which is what good sides do, maybe lacking a ruthless edge though.
Don't get me wrong they aren't up there with some of the great crusader sides, but they are still a very good side, and how often are good teams dragged down to the level of the opposition, which tbf ain't been that great in recent times
But last night they were ready for a different Blues team, and stepped up, as above, I hope this lights thier fire to move up a notch now which will push the blues too, in turn driving the Chiefs and hopefully those other 3 teams too
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@duluth said in Crusaders v Blues:
Blues loosies got through plenty of tackles
Robinson 10 (2 misses)
Papali'i 21 (0 misses)
Sotutu 15 (0 misses)Worth mentioning Ioanes defensive game too: 16 tackles, 2 misses. That's an usually high number of tackles for a centre
One stat site had Sotutu at 20 tackles and Papali’i at 23.
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A lot of posts about dalton and sotutu but I thought Robinson was outstanding in the first half. His ruck clear outs were top class: efficient, accurate, repetitive.
I like Leicester but he has to have a Reece work rate if he wants higher honours.
Provided the selectors make the right choices the ABs should have a good team. They really need to back the younger props coming thru. Ofa was great for the blues but the crusaders newell was also very good when he came on.
Crusaders are really missing a genuine top class loose forward. Best of the bunch is probably blackadder but grace is all sorts of meh.
@billy-tell said in Crusaders v Blues:
A lot of posts about dalton and sotutu but I thought Robinson was outstanding in the first half. His ruck clear outs were top class: efficient, accurate, repetitive.
I like Leicester but he has to have a Reece work rate if he wants higher honours.
Provided the selectors make the right choices the ABs should have a good team. They really need to back the younger props coming thru. Ofa was great for the blues but the crusaders newell was also very good when he came on.
Crusaders are really missing a genuine top class loose forward. Best of the bunch is probably blackadder but grace is all sorts of meh.
@billy-tell said in Crusaders v Blues:
crusaders newell was also very good when he came on.In the lead up to that tackle on Gardiner in the corner there was a passage of play where Newell was barging towards the line with a couple of Blues on him. He was being assisted by a Crusader I think. Anyway, a third Blue just managed to keep hold of Newell's foot when Newell had momentum and was a metre or so from the line. That was a definite try saving effort. And this was a long winded way of saying yep, I agree, Newell did well.
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Every other NZ team has beaten the Crusaders in Christchurch in recent years so this isn't exactly a new phenomenon.
@bovidae said in Crusaders v Blues:
Every other NZ team has beaten the Crusaders in Christchurch in recent years so this isn't exactly a new phenomenon.
Look at these Chiefs supporters trying to minimise the Blues moment in the sun, breaking an 18 year hoodoo….
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Those talking up Perofeta for the ABs were premature. He showed a lack of big game temperament in this game.
Papali'i - the best player on the field.
I'm going to praise Fraser as well, who didn't get fooled by either team trying to milk penalties.
No idea how the commentary was I didn't listen to it!
@bovidae said in Crusaders v Blues:
Those talking up Perofeta for the ABs were premature. He showed a lack of big game temperament in this game.
Papali'i - the best player on the field.
I'm going to praise Fraser as well, who didn't get fooled by either team trying to milk penalties.
No idea how the commentary was I didn't listen to it!
Nah. Still think he's been the next best 10, and went ok.
Compare his efforts to Mo'unga who also missed kicks and tackles.
Edit: was not previously a fan.
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Every other NZ team has beaten the Crusaders in Christchurch in recent years so this isn't exactly a new phenomenon.
@bovidae said in Crusaders v Blues:
Every other NZ team has beaten the Crusaders in Christchurch in recent years so this isn't exactly a new phenomenon.
Nope. To me the difference is the crusaders playing poorly and losing, and them targeting a game, getting up for it, playing well and then losing.
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@bovidae said in Crusaders v Blues:
Those talking up Perofeta for the ABs were premature. He showed a lack of big game temperament in this game.
Papali'i - the best player on the field.
I'm going to praise Fraser as well, who didn't get fooled by either team trying to milk penalties.
No idea how the commentary was I didn't listen to it!
Nah. Still think he's been the next best 10, and went ok.
Compare his efforts to Mo'unga who also missed kicks and tackles.
Edit: was not previously a fan.
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While it turned into a very good game in the end, I still think the cards spoiled it a bit in terms of knowing where each team is really at in relation to the other. I suspect the Blues have their noses in front based on the play before the two cards, but we still have to keep in mind the Blues very nearly let this game slip/the Crusaders very nearly won.
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@nzzp tbf they haven't had to step up much and still win, they were doing what they needed to, which is what good sides do, maybe lacking a ruthless edge though.
Don't get me wrong they aren't up there with some of the great crusader sides, but they are still a very good side, and how often are good teams dragged down to the level of the opposition, which tbf ain't been that great in recent times
But last night they were ready for a different Blues team, and stepped up, as above, I hope this lights thier fire to move up a notch now which will push the blues too, in turn driving the Chiefs and hopefully those other 3 teams too
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@bovidae said in Crusaders v Blues:
Those talking up Perofeta for the ABs were premature. He showed a lack of big game temperament in this game.
Papali'i - the best player on the field.
I'm going to praise Fraser as well, who didn't get fooled by either team trying to milk penalties.
No idea how the commentary was I didn't listen to it!
Nah. Still think he's been the next best 10, and went ok.
Compare his efforts to Mo'unga who also missed kicks and tackles.
Edit: was not previously a fan.
@booboo said in Crusaders v Blues:
Nah. Still think he's been the next best 10, and went ok.
Didn't watch too much of him last year, but he seems to be turning into a pretty mature player. Not his best game today, but he'll learn from that.
@tim I think Foster will want to have a good look at him in the AB camp at the very least and to give Foster some credit, he has done well picking and handling new ABs
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I've only seen a YouTube highlights package but have to say well played to the Blues, a deserved win. Papali'i clearly the star turn in either forward pack but Jordan seems to have also had another big night. It's now a Papali'i vs Savea debate for mine.
As an aside, I was quite dismayed by the lack of gas shown by Dom Gardiner as he pretty much lumbered towards the corner. He had a head start and the angle from around 22 out but was easily mown down well short of the corner. He's supposed to be a 6 (albeit covering lock in this 23) and should be able to make more of a contest of that situation.
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@taniwharugby they are really good, but sides will back themselves to get up. Their ceiling isn't what past sides have been.
More importantly, the conveyor belt of talent is weaker than it's been for ages
@nzzp said in Crusaders v Blues:
@taniwharugby they are really good, but sides will back themselves to get up. Their ceiling isn't what past sides have been.
More importantly, the conveyor belt of talent is weaker than it's been for ages
Agree, I and other Sader fans have been beating this drum for a while now. There is not the depth there once was and there are some positions where the starters are just Super level at best. In saying that a couple of youngsters have popped their heads up high enough this year to suggest that there is still some talent coming through.
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I've only seen a YouTube highlights package but have to say well played to the Blues, a deserved win. Papali'i clearly the star turn in either forward pack but Jordan seems to have also had another big night. It's now a Papali'i vs Savea debate for mine.
As an aside, I was quite dismayed by the lack of gas shown by Dom Gardiner as he pretty much lumbered towards the corner. He had a head start and the angle from around 22 out but was easily mown down well short of the corner. He's supposed to be a 6 (albeit covering lock in this 23) and should be able to make more of a contest of that situation.
@shark said in Crusaders v Blues:
I've only seen a YouTube highlights package but have to say well played to the Blues, a deserved win. Papali'i clearly the star turn in either forward pack but Jordan seems to have also had another big night. It's now a Papali'i vs Savea debate for mine.
As an aside, I was quite dismayed by the lack of gas shown by Dom Gardiner as he pretty much lumbered towards the corner. He had a head start and the angle from around 22 out but was easily mown down well short of the corner. He's supposed to be a 6 (albeit covering lock in this 23) and should be able to make more of a contest of that situation.
It was Ioane who was chasing him.
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@nzzp said in Crusaders v Blues:
@taniwharugby they are really good, but sides will back themselves to get up. Their ceiling isn't what past sides have been.
More importantly, the conveyor belt of talent is weaker than it's been for ages
Agree, I and other Sader fans have been beating this drum for a while now. There is not the depth there once was and there are some positions where the starters are just Super level at best. In saying that a couple of youngsters have popped their heads up high enough this year to suggest that there is still some talent coming through.
@crazy-horse said in Crusaders v Blues:
@nzzp said in Crusaders v Blues:
@taniwharugby they are really good, but sides will back themselves to get up. Their ceiling isn't what past sides have been.
More importantly, the conveyor belt of talent is weaker than it's been for ages
Agree, I and other Sader fans have been beating this drum for a while now. There is not the depth there once was and there are some positions where the starters are just Super level at best. In saying that a couple of youngsters have popped their heads up high enough this year to suggest that there is still some talent coming through.
Yes and no. I don't think we're any worse off than any other side in terms of fringe or even inadequate players. The depth is not what it once was. There are literally dozens of players in and around the squads these days who never would have had a look in before we started losing substantial quantities of players overseas, combined with vast inexperience as lots of U20s are pressed immediately into service. Looking at our side last night, the only areas we were a bit exposed were at lock / lock cover and hooker cover. But even at lock, Gallagher looks immediately at home. Compare that to the Blues sporting the likes of Eklund, old man Romano, Goodhue, Lam, Lay, Choat and Heem, none of whom would have been required in Super Rugby's hey day, and we look a cut above, on paper.
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Ioane/Papalii cover tackle on Gardiner:
BTW, the last tackle of the game was made by Sotutu - hard hit with the shoulder that produced a knock-on.
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@crazy-horse said in Crusaders v Blues:
@nzzp said in Crusaders v Blues:
@taniwharugby they are really good, but sides will back themselves to get up. Their ceiling isn't what past sides have been.
More importantly, the conveyor belt of talent is weaker than it's been for ages
Agree, I and other Sader fans have been beating this drum for a while now. There is not the depth there once was and there are some positions where the starters are just Super level at best. In saying that a couple of youngsters have popped their heads up high enough this year to suggest that there is still some talent coming through.
Yes and no. I don't think we're any worse off than any other side in terms of fringe or even inadequate players. The depth is not what it once was. There are literally dozens of players in and around the squads these days who never would have had a look in before we started losing substantial quantities of players overseas, combined with vast inexperience as lots of U20s are pressed immediately into service. Looking at our side last night, the only areas we were a bit exposed were at lock / lock cover and hooker cover. But even at lock, Gallagher looks immediately at home. Compare that to the Blues sporting the likes of Eklund, old man Romano, Goodhue, Lam, Lay, Choat and Heem, none of whom would have been required in Super Rugby's hey day, and we look a cut above, on paper.
@shark said in Crusaders v Blues:
Compare that to the Blues sporting the likes of Eklund, old man Romano, Goodhue, Lam, Lay, Choat and Heem, none of whom would have been required in Super Rugby's hey day
You mean in the glory days of Corey Flynn, Ross Filipo, Con Barrell, Sam Broomhall, and Adam Whitelock? All those players you named are high quality at Super Rugby level. Lay was very solid for Bristol in the UK Premiership.
