Crusaders v Blues
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Those talking up Perofeta for the ABs were premature. He showed a lack of big game temperament in this game.
Papali'i - the best player on the field.
I'm going to praise Fraser as well, who didn't get fooled by either team trying to milk penalties.
No idea how the commentary was I didn't listen to it!
@bovidae said in Crusaders v Blues:
Those talking up Perofeta for the ABs were premature. He showed a lack of big game temperament in this game.
Papali'i - the best player on the field.
I'm going to praise Fraser as well, who didn't get fooled by either team trying to milk penalties.
No idea how the commentary was I didn't listen to it!
Nah. Still think he's been the next best 10, and went ok.
Compare his efforts to Mo'unga who also missed kicks and tackles.
Edit: was not previously a fan.
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Every other NZ team has beaten the Crusaders in Christchurch in recent years so this isn't exactly a new phenomenon.
@bovidae said in Crusaders v Blues:
Every other NZ team has beaten the Crusaders in Christchurch in recent years so this isn't exactly a new phenomenon.
Nope. To me the difference is the crusaders playing poorly and losing, and them targeting a game, getting up for it, playing well and then losing.
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@bovidae said in Crusaders v Blues:
Those talking up Perofeta for the ABs were premature. He showed a lack of big game temperament in this game.
Papali'i - the best player on the field.
I'm going to praise Fraser as well, who didn't get fooled by either team trying to milk penalties.
No idea how the commentary was I didn't listen to it!
Nah. Still think he's been the next best 10, and went ok.
Compare his efforts to Mo'unga who also missed kicks and tackles.
Edit: was not previously a fan.
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While it turned into a very good game in the end, I still think the cards spoiled it a bit in terms of knowing where each team is really at in relation to the other. I suspect the Blues have their noses in front based on the play before the two cards, but we still have to keep in mind the Blues very nearly let this game slip/the Crusaders very nearly won.
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@nzzp tbf they haven't had to step up much and still win, they were doing what they needed to, which is what good sides do, maybe lacking a ruthless edge though.
Don't get me wrong they aren't up there with some of the great crusader sides, but they are still a very good side, and how often are good teams dragged down to the level of the opposition, which tbf ain't been that great in recent times
But last night they were ready for a different Blues team, and stepped up, as above, I hope this lights thier fire to move up a notch now which will push the blues too, in turn driving the Chiefs and hopefully those other 3 teams too
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@bovidae said in Crusaders v Blues:
Those talking up Perofeta for the ABs were premature. He showed a lack of big game temperament in this game.
Papali'i - the best player on the field.
I'm going to praise Fraser as well, who didn't get fooled by either team trying to milk penalties.
No idea how the commentary was I didn't listen to it!
Nah. Still think he's been the next best 10, and went ok.
Compare his efforts to Mo'unga who also missed kicks and tackles.
Edit: was not previously a fan.
@booboo said in Crusaders v Blues:
Nah. Still think he's been the next best 10, and went ok.
Didn't watch too much of him last year, but he seems to be turning into a pretty mature player. Not his best game today, but he'll learn from that.
@tim I think Foster will want to have a good look at him in the AB camp at the very least and to give Foster some credit, he has done well picking and handling new ABs
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I've only seen a YouTube highlights package but have to say well played to the Blues, a deserved win. Papali'i clearly the star turn in either forward pack but Jordan seems to have also had another big night. It's now a Papali'i vs Savea debate for mine.
As an aside, I was quite dismayed by the lack of gas shown by Dom Gardiner as he pretty much lumbered towards the corner. He had a head start and the angle from around 22 out but was easily mown down well short of the corner. He's supposed to be a 6 (albeit covering lock in this 23) and should be able to make more of a contest of that situation.
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@taniwharugby they are really good, but sides will back themselves to get up. Their ceiling isn't what past sides have been.
More importantly, the conveyor belt of talent is weaker than it's been for ages
@nzzp said in Crusaders v Blues:
@taniwharugby they are really good, but sides will back themselves to get up. Their ceiling isn't what past sides have been.
More importantly, the conveyor belt of talent is weaker than it's been for ages
Agree, I and other Sader fans have been beating this drum for a while now. There is not the depth there once was and there are some positions where the starters are just Super level at best. In saying that a couple of youngsters have popped their heads up high enough this year to suggest that there is still some talent coming through.
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I've only seen a YouTube highlights package but have to say well played to the Blues, a deserved win. Papali'i clearly the star turn in either forward pack but Jordan seems to have also had another big night. It's now a Papali'i vs Savea debate for mine.
As an aside, I was quite dismayed by the lack of gas shown by Dom Gardiner as he pretty much lumbered towards the corner. He had a head start and the angle from around 22 out but was easily mown down well short of the corner. He's supposed to be a 6 (albeit covering lock in this 23) and should be able to make more of a contest of that situation.
@shark said in Crusaders v Blues:
I've only seen a YouTube highlights package but have to say well played to the Blues, a deserved win. Papali'i clearly the star turn in either forward pack but Jordan seems to have also had another big night. It's now a Papali'i vs Savea debate for mine.
As an aside, I was quite dismayed by the lack of gas shown by Dom Gardiner as he pretty much lumbered towards the corner. He had a head start and the angle from around 22 out but was easily mown down well short of the corner. He's supposed to be a 6 (albeit covering lock in this 23) and should be able to make more of a contest of that situation.
It was Ioane who was chasing him.
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@nzzp said in Crusaders v Blues:
@taniwharugby they are really good, but sides will back themselves to get up. Their ceiling isn't what past sides have been.
More importantly, the conveyor belt of talent is weaker than it's been for ages
Agree, I and other Sader fans have been beating this drum for a while now. There is not the depth there once was and there are some positions where the starters are just Super level at best. In saying that a couple of youngsters have popped their heads up high enough this year to suggest that there is still some talent coming through.
@crazy-horse said in Crusaders v Blues:
@nzzp said in Crusaders v Blues:
@taniwharugby they are really good, but sides will back themselves to get up. Their ceiling isn't what past sides have been.
More importantly, the conveyor belt of talent is weaker than it's been for ages
Agree, I and other Sader fans have been beating this drum for a while now. There is not the depth there once was and there are some positions where the starters are just Super level at best. In saying that a couple of youngsters have popped their heads up high enough this year to suggest that there is still some talent coming through.
Yes and no. I don't think we're any worse off than any other side in terms of fringe or even inadequate players. The depth is not what it once was. There are literally dozens of players in and around the squads these days who never would have had a look in before we started losing substantial quantities of players overseas, combined with vast inexperience as lots of U20s are pressed immediately into service. Looking at our side last night, the only areas we were a bit exposed were at lock / lock cover and hooker cover. But even at lock, Gallagher looks immediately at home. Compare that to the Blues sporting the likes of Eklund, old man Romano, Goodhue, Lam, Lay, Choat and Heem, none of whom would have been required in Super Rugby's hey day, and we look a cut above, on paper.
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Ioane/Papalii cover tackle on Gardiner:
BTW, the last tackle of the game was made by Sotutu - hard hit with the shoulder that produced a knock-on.
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@crazy-horse said in Crusaders v Blues:
@nzzp said in Crusaders v Blues:
@taniwharugby they are really good, but sides will back themselves to get up. Their ceiling isn't what past sides have been.
More importantly, the conveyor belt of talent is weaker than it's been for ages
Agree, I and other Sader fans have been beating this drum for a while now. There is not the depth there once was and there are some positions where the starters are just Super level at best. In saying that a couple of youngsters have popped their heads up high enough this year to suggest that there is still some talent coming through.
Yes and no. I don't think we're any worse off than any other side in terms of fringe or even inadequate players. The depth is not what it once was. There are literally dozens of players in and around the squads these days who never would have had a look in before we started losing substantial quantities of players overseas, combined with vast inexperience as lots of U20s are pressed immediately into service. Looking at our side last night, the only areas we were a bit exposed were at lock / lock cover and hooker cover. But even at lock, Gallagher looks immediately at home. Compare that to the Blues sporting the likes of Eklund, old man Romano, Goodhue, Lam, Lay, Choat and Heem, none of whom would have been required in Super Rugby's hey day, and we look a cut above, on paper.
@shark said in Crusaders v Blues:
Compare that to the Blues sporting the likes of Eklund, old man Romano, Goodhue, Lam, Lay, Choat and Heem, none of whom would have been required in Super Rugby's hey day
You mean in the glory days of Corey Flynn, Ross Filipo, Con Barrell, Sam Broomhall, and Adam Whitelock? All those players you named are high quality at Super Rugby level. Lay was very solid for Bristol in the UK Premiership.
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Credit to Mike Fraser ,a couple of things he could of looked at , but what I do like about his style , he’s not fooled by players trying to hold other players in and he has an understanding and awareness of where players who have made a tackle are , many times you see officials immediately penalise a trapped players , but I saw on least 2 occasions there was still a channel for the ball to be freed up , we saw this with a collapsed maul that the Blues had held up ,but saw an opportunity for the Crusaders to free the ball up .
The YC for Havilli whilst it might have seemed harsh , if you did that anywhere else on the paddock it’s a penalty , but when a team gets that far in behind that deep , I thought Fraser was right on the money . -
Credit to Mike Fraser ,a couple of things he could of looked at , but what I do like about his style , he’s not fooled by players trying to hold other players in and he has an understanding and awareness of where players who have made a tackle are , many times you see officials immediately penalise a trapped players , but I saw on least 2 occasions there was still a channel for the ball to be freed up , we saw this with a collapsed maul that the Blues had held up ,but saw an opportunity for the Crusaders to free the ball up .
The YC for Havilli whilst it might have seemed harsh , if you did that anywhere else on the paddock it’s a penalty , but when a team gets that far in behind that deep , I thought Fraser was right on the money .@steven-harris Totally agree, I thought he had a great game and contributed to the competition. Like you say several times the halfback tried to milk it with the trapped player but he wasn't having it.
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Serious question here re the Havili, but what was Havili supposed to do in the situation? The way I saw it in real time (haven't seen it again apart from the slow motion replays so can accept being wrong) is Havili tackled old mate in full flow with his arm over the ball and as they were rolling at full tit on the ground Havili removes his arm from around the ball. The ball comes loose. Intent aside (the only person who truly knows the answer to that is Havili), I reckon it would have been almost physically impossible for Havli not to remove his arm in that situation given he was probably thinking about getting back to his feet asap.
Pity Havili will never say publically if he did it on purpose or not. People probably wouldn't believe him anyway, especially if he said there was no intent.
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Serious question here re the Havili, but what was Havili supposed to do in the situation? The way I saw it in real time (haven't seen it again apart from the slow motion replays so can accept being wrong) is Havili tackled old mate in full flow with his arm over the ball and as they were rolling at full tit on the ground Havili removes his arm from around the ball. The ball comes loose. Intent aside (the only person who truly knows the answer to that is Havili), I reckon it would have been almost physically impossible for Havli not to remove his arm in that situation given he was probably thinking about getting back to his feet asap.
Pity Havili will never say publically if he did it on purpose or not. People probably wouldn't believe him anyway, especially if he said there was no intent.
@crazy-horse I think it comes down to the outcome as opposed to the intent. The result was the Blues were hot on attack and a high chance of scoring and by rolling away and knocking the ball out the momentum was lost. It was tough on Havilli but I think the outcome was correct.
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@crazy-horse I think it comes down to the outcome as opposed to the intent. The result was the Blues were hot on attack and a high chance of scoring and by rolling away and knocking the ball out the momentum was lost. It was tough on Havilli but I think the outcome was correct.
@chimoaus said in Crusaders v Blues:
@crazy-horse I think it comes down to the outcome as opposed to the intent. The result was the Blues were hot on attack and a high chance of scoring and by rolling away and knocking the ball out the momentum was lost. It was tough on Havilli but I think the outcome was correct.
I get what you are saying because there are plenty of other situations where intent doesn't matter, but apart from scrums, they tend to be around player safety.
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@machpants Well there is always Jordie and we would have to worry about having a midget or lightweight in the position. The next Steven Larkham.
