All Blacks 2022
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Can't comment on Robinson's form, but if he's been decent enough, I'd like to see him there, because he brings genuine lineout height. I'd like to see someone in the squad who can stand down the back of the lineout next to Big Pieter-Steph and not get the Benny Hill treatment (the slaps on the head).
I'd also like to see a really big munter in the squad who can charge off the back of the scrum and make metres. Ardie does it with leg drive and determination, but I'm thinking in the mold of Billy Vunipola. Sowakula might be the closest we have, but he seems a bit error prone.
What we had last year seemed a bit analogous to cricket allrounders. A bunch of guys who were either big 7s or small 6/8s. Ideally suited to the bench (though I like big 7s).
It's going to be harsh on some, but I don't think we need half a dozen of these in-between guys.
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Can't comment on Robinson's form, but if he's been decent enough, I'd like to see him there, because he brings genuine lineout height. I'd like to see someone in the squad who can stand down the back of the lineout next to Big Pieter-Steph and not get the Benny Hill treatment (the slaps on the head).
I'd also like to see a really big munter in the squad who can charge off the back of the scrum and make metres. Ardie does it with leg drive and determination, but I'm thinking in the mold of Billy Vunipola. Sowakula might be the closest we have, but he seems a bit error prone.
What we had last year seemed a bit analogous to cricket allrounders. A bunch of guys who were either big 7s or small 6/8s. Ideally suited to the bench (though I like big 7s).
It's going to be harsh on some, but I don't think we need half a dozen of these in-between guys.
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Been any official comment about the mix?
I'd assume pack 9/5/7 = 21, so 15 backs. Allows 3 halves, 2 tens, five midfield, five back three.
Seven loosies: Cane/DP/Akira/Frizell/Ardie/Sotutu and one of Blackadder/Jacobson (I'm not sure we need too many 'workrate' types)? Hard on Pita Gus. Or do they make a call that Frizell isn't quite top test level and try new blood?
@pakman said in All Blacks 2022:
Been any official comment about the mix?
I'd assume pack 9/5/7 = 21, so 15 backs. Allows 3 halves, 2 tens, five midfield, five back three.
Seven loosies: Cane/DP/Akira/Frizell/Ardie/Sotutu and one of Blackadder/Jacobson (I'm not sure we need too many 'workrate' types)? Hard on Pita Gus. Or do they make a call that Frizell isn't quite top test level and try new blood?
You'd hope.
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Back Five: Jordie/Jordan/Clarke/Reece/Another. Given Ioane (R) covers wing as well, I'd focus on someone who's comfortable at fullback. Perofeta would add cover at 10. As would Ioane (J). Bridge for me would be triumph of hope over expectation.
@pakman said in All Blacks 2022:
Back Five: Jordie/Jordan/Clarke/Reece/Another. Given Ioane (R) covers wing as well, I'd focus on someone who's comfortable at fullback. Perofeta would add cover at 10. As would Ioane (J). Bridge for me would be triumph of hope over expectation.
My preference over the other two
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B Akira, Paps and Ardie must have some bulk between them.
For my ideal roles you'd arguably have these guys in the 8,6,7 jerseys respectively.
The gold standard is really Kaino, McCaw, Read - so lining up my way you can cover McCaw and Read, but you're still lacking a monster like Kaino.
Frizell and Robinson are probably the closest we have size-wise.
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B Akira, Paps and Ardie must have some bulk between them.
For my ideal roles you'd arguably have these guys in the 8,6,7 jerseys respectively.
The gold standard is really Kaino, McCaw, Read - so lining up my way you can cover McCaw and Read, but you're still lacking a monster like Kaino.
Frizell and Robinson are probably the closest we have size-wise.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B Akira, Paps and Ardie must have some bulk between them.
For my ideal roles you'd arguably have these guys in the 8,6,7 jerseys respectively.
The gold standard is really Kaino, McCaw, Read - so lining up my way you can cover McCaw and Read, but you're still lacking a monster like Kaino.
Frizell and Robinson are probably the closest we have size-wise.
Looking at playing weights (and ignoring the inaccuracy...) Akira is 2cm shorter and 3kgs heavier than Kaino. So pretty similar size wise.
Robinson is 2cm taller and the same weight.
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B Akira, Paps and Ardie must have some bulk between them.
For my ideal roles you'd arguably have these guys in the 8,6,7 jerseys respectively.
The gold standard is really Kaino, McCaw, Read - so lining up my way you can cover McCaw and Read, but you're still lacking a monster like Kaino.
Frizell and Robinson are probably the closest we have size-wise.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
Frizell and Robinson are probably the closest we have size-wise.
Built like Tarzan plays like Jane.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B Akira, Paps and Ardie must have some bulk between them.
For my ideal roles you'd arguably have these guys in the 8,6,7 jerseys respectively.
The gold standard is really Kaino, McCaw, Read - so lining up my way you can cover McCaw and Read, but you're still lacking a monster like Kaino.
Frizell and Robinson are probably the closest we have size-wise.
Looking at playing weights (and ignoring the inaccuracy...) Akira is 2cm shorter and 3kgs heavier than Kaino. So pretty similar size wise.
Robinson is 2cm taller and the same weight.
@Kirwan The weights are pretty much bullshit.
The ABs website lists Kaino at 105kgs, which is probably when he was 16. They've got Ardie at 99kgs as well.
A better indicator is that in 2016, the ABs were comfortable to play Kaino at lock.
Same with Fozzie mentioning last year that they could use Frizell at lock in a pinch. And yet he appears regularly across the internet at 108kgs - which is basically the weight of an international openside.
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@Kirwan The weights are pretty much bullshit.
The ABs website lists Kaino at 105kgs, which is probably when he was 16. They've got Ardie at 99kgs as well.
A better indicator is that in 2016, the ABs were comfortable to play Kaino at lock.
Same with Fozzie mentioning last year that they could use Frizell at lock in a pinch. And yet he appears regularly across the internet at 108kgs - which is basically the weight of an international openside.
@Chris-B so unless they are 21 stone like Billy V, weight isn’t really worth debating aye…
Style of game and complementing each other is still paramount for your loose forwards.
The AB coaches took a little time to work out that Read was the right fit (at no8 that is) with McCaw and Kaino. Read was tried at 6 and in a bench role if I recall.
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@Kirwan The weights are pretty much bullshit.
The ABs website lists Kaino at 105kgs, which is probably when he was 16. They've got Ardie at 99kgs as well.
A better indicator is that in 2016, the ABs were comfortable to play Kaino at lock.
Same with Fozzie mentioning last year that they could use Frizell at lock in a pinch. And yet he appears regularly across the internet at 108kgs - which is basically the weight of an international openside.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@Kirwan The weights are pretty much bullshit.
The ABs website lists Kaino at 105kgs, which is probably when he was 16. They've got Ardie at 99kgs as well.
A better indicator is that in 2016, the ABs were comfortable to play Kaino at lock.
Same with Fozzie mentioning last year that they could use Frizell at lock in a pinch. And yet he appears regularly across the internet at 108kgs - which is basically the weight of an international openside.
The result I got had him at 110 kg.
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@Kirwan The weights are pretty much bullshit.
The ABs website lists Kaino at 105kgs, which is probably when he was 16. They've got Ardie at 99kgs as well.
A better indicator is that in 2016, the ABs were comfortable to play Kaino at lock.
Same with Fozzie mentioning last year that they could use Frizell at lock in a pinch. And yet he appears regularly across the internet at 108kgs - which is basically the weight of an international openside.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@Kirwan The weights are pretty much bullshit.
The ABs website lists Kaino at 105kgs, which is probably when he was 16. They've got Ardie at 99kgs as well.
A better indicator is that in 2016, the ABs were comfortable to play Kaino at lock.
Same with Fozzie mentioning last year that they could use Frizell at lock in a pinch. And yet he appears regularly across the internet at 108kgs - which is basically the weight of an international openside.
I would prefer that Fozzie mention that they could use him as 6/lock cover on the bench in a midweek tour game against an Adelaide XV at a pinch.
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@Chris-B so unless they are 21 stone like Billy V, weight isn’t really worth debating aye…
Style of game and complementing each other is still paramount for your loose forwards.
The AB coaches took a little time to work out that Read was the right fit (at no8 that is) with McCaw and Kaino. Read was tried at 6 and in a bench role if I recall.
@ACT-Crusader Pretty much what I'm saying.
Last year we had loose trios like Blackadder, Papalií, Savea where any of those guys could have worn any loosie jersey number and all same-same.
@Kirwan - I bet Kaino in his prime was at least 115kgs. He was clearly bigger than Read, who my first hit gives as 111kgs.
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@Chris-B so unless they are 21 stone like Billy V, weight isn’t really worth debating aye…
Style of game and complementing each other is still paramount for your loose forwards.
The AB coaches took a little time to work out that Read was the right fit (at no8 that is) with McCaw and Kaino. Read was tried at 6 and in a bench role if I recall.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
Read was tried at 6 and in a bench role if I recall.
You may recall a spirited discussion about the French scoring a try on the blindside when Reado (6) and Messum (8) didn't get across to make the tackle.
Read got shifted to 8 the next game and I think Liam got dropped to howls of outrage from the wilderness and smug righteousness from the righteous!
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
Read was tried at 6 and in a bench role if I recall.
You may recall a spirited discussion about the French scoring a try on the blindside when Reado (6) and Messum (8) didn't get across to make the tackle.
Read got shifted to 8 the next game and I think Liam got dropped to howls of outrage from the wilderness and smug righteousness from the righteous!
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
Read was tried at 6 and in a bench role if I recall.
You may recall a spirited discussion about the French scoring a try on the blindside when Reado (6) and Messum (8) didn't get across to make the tackle.
Read got shifted to 8 the next game and I think Liam got dropped to howls of outrage from the wilderness and smug righteousness from the righteous!
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
Read was tried at 6 and in a bench role if I recall.
You may recall a spirited discussion about the French scoring a try on the blindside when Reado (6) and Messum (8) didn't get across to make the tackle.
Read got shifted to 8 the next game and I think Liam got dropped to howls of outrage from the wilderness and smug righteousness from the righteous!
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@cgrant said in All Blacks 2022:
2nd Five : Havili's loss of form and confidence could cost him his place in the squad. I'd like Foster to try something new with TUJ and/or RTS, along with Tupaea.
Centre : Rieko and Sullivan are the best performers. I would be glad to see the latter as a bolter in the next squad. Let's see how Goodhue come back during the next week.Jeez, we've been really cursed with injuries since Ma'a & Conrad departed.
Still so gutted for Charlie Ngatai. He was looking outstanding before getting hammered.
Selection hasn't helped, not identifying what you want in midfield and playing people there. Injuries are a major contributor, but I'd argue the selectors have to shoulder more of the blame. Kinda like 6.
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@cgrant said in All Blacks 2022:
2nd Five : Havili's loss of form and confidence could cost him his place in the squad. I'd like Foster to try something new with TUJ and/or RTS, along with Tupaea.
Centre : Rieko and Sullivan are the best performers. I would be glad to see the latter as a bolter in the next squad. Let's see how Goodhue come back during the next week.Jeez, we've been really cursed with injuries since Ma'a & Conrad departed.
Still so gutted for Charlie Ngatai. He was looking outstanding before getting hammered.
Just stop...
I think we missed Richard Kahui more than we realise, though. He was 4 years younger than Conrad and would have been at his peak post 2015.
Selection hasn't helped, not identifying what you want in midfield and playing people there. Injuries are a major contributor, but I'd argue the selectors have to shoulder more of the blame. Kinda like 6.
Agreed. The way they have mucked about with ALB has been as frustrating as hell.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@cgrant said in All Blacks 2022:
2nd Five : Havili's loss of form and confidence could cost him his place in the squad. I'd like Foster to try something new with TUJ and/or RTS, along with Tupaea.
Centre : Rieko and Sullivan are the best performers. I would be glad to see the latter as a bolter in the next squad. Let's see how Goodhue come back during the next week.Jeez, we've been really cursed with injuries since Ma'a & Conrad departed.
Still so gutted for Charlie Ngatai. He was looking outstanding before getting hammered.
Just stop...
I think we missed Richard Kahui more than we realise, though. He was 4 years younger than Conrad and would have been at his peak post 2015.
Selection hasn't helped, not identifying what you want in midfield and playing people there. Injuries are a major contributor, but I'd argue the selectors have to shoulder more of the blame. Kinda like 6.
Agreed. The way they have mucked about with ALB has been as frustrating as hell.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
I think we missed Richard Kahui more than we realise, though. He was 4 years younger than Conrad and would have been at his peak post 2015.
Unfortunately Kahui's shoulders were made of glass at that time so we never saw the best of him in a Chiefs or AB jersey. He is still class, even at nearly 37 but needed a break to be able to return.
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As a comparison here are the stats of the likely 4 Irish loose forwards that will play the ABs:
O'Mahony (107 kg, 1.91 m)
Doris (107 kg, 1.93 m)
van der Flier (103 kg, 1.88 m)
Conan (114 kg, 1.93 m)It reiterates that it's how the player makes the most of their size/height rather than what is written on paper.
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@Kirwan The weights are pretty much bullshit.
The ABs website lists Kaino at 105kgs, which is probably when he was 16. They've got Ardie at 99kgs as well.
A better indicator is that in 2016, the ABs were comfortable to play Kaino at lock.
Same with Fozzie mentioning last year that they could use Frizell at lock in a pinch. And yet he appears regularly across the internet at 108kgs - which is basically the weight of an international openside.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
Same with Fozzie mentioning last year that they could use Frizell at lock in a pinch.
I'd prefer Fozzie not mention Frizell at all.
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As a comparison here are the stats of the likely 4 Irish loose forwards that will play the ABs:
O'Mahony (107 kg, 1.91 m)
Doris (107 kg, 1.93 m)
van der Flier (103 kg, 1.88 m)
Conan (114 kg, 1.93 m)It reiterates that it's how the player makes the most of their size/height rather than what is written on paper.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2022:
As a comparison here are the stats of the likely 4 Irish loose forwards that will play the ABs:
O'Mahony (107 kg, 1.91 m)
Doris (107 kg, 1.93 m)
van der Flier (103 kg, 1.88 m)
Conan (114 kg, 1.93 m)It reiterates that it's how the player makes the most of their size/height rather than what is written on paper.
