All Blacks 2022
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@Kirwan The weights are pretty much bullshit.
The ABs website lists Kaino at 105kgs, which is probably when he was 16. They've got Ardie at 99kgs as well.
A better indicator is that in 2016, the ABs were comfortable to play Kaino at lock.
Same with Fozzie mentioning last year that they could use Frizell at lock in a pinch. And yet he appears regularly across the internet at 108kgs - which is basically the weight of an international openside.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
Same with Fozzie mentioning last year that they could use Frizell at lock in a pinch.
I'd prefer Fozzie not mention Frizell at all.
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As a comparison here are the stats of the likely 4 Irish loose forwards that will play the ABs:
O'Mahony (107 kg, 1.91 m)
Doris (107 kg, 1.93 m)
van der Flier (103 kg, 1.88 m)
Conan (114 kg, 1.93 m)It reiterates that it's how the player makes the most of their size/height rather than what is written on paper.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2022:
As a comparison here are the stats of the likely 4 Irish loose forwards that will play the ABs:
O'Mahony (107 kg, 1.91 m)
Doris (107 kg, 1.93 m)
van der Flier (103 kg, 1.88 m)
Conan (114 kg, 1.93 m)It reiterates that it's how the player makes the most of their size/height rather than what is written on paper.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
Read was tried at 6 and in a bench role if I recall.
You may recall a spirited discussion about the French scoring a try on the blindside when Reado (6) and Messum (8) didn't get across to make the tackle.
Read got shifted to 8 the next game and I think Liam got dropped to howls of outrage from the wilderness and smug righteousness from the righteous!
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
Read was tried at 6 and in a bench role if I recall.
You may recall a spirited discussion about the French scoring a try on the blindside when Reado (6) and Messum (8) didn't get across to make the tackle.
Read got shifted to 8 the next game and I think Liam got dropped to howls of outrage from the wilderness and smug righteousness from the righteous!
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Obviously haven't looked at stats or anything, but what is the promise everyone sees in RTS? Strikes me as just reputation as he certainly doesn't seem to have looked special in any outings.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@Kirwan The weights are pretty much bullshit.
The ABs website lists Kaino at 105kgs, which is probably when he was 16. They've got Ardie at 99kgs as well.
A better indicator is that in 2016, the ABs were comfortable to play Kaino at lock.
Same with Fozzie mentioning last year that they could use Frizell at lock in a pinch. And yet he appears regularly across the internet at 108kgs - which is basically the weight of an international openside.
I would prefer that Fozzie mention that they could use him as 6/lock cover on the bench in a midweek tour game against an Adelaide XV at a pinch.
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The question for me are the AB selecters going to pick their squad on form now and hope they can maintain that form through To October.
Or have they settled on 90% of their squad (maybe a couple of bolsters)and expect those player to grow into better form to peak when they want them to.I think it’s the latter so not a lot of changes to last years squad IMO.
It is a bit late one year out from the WC to start again,and strip the squad and reselect a bucket load of new players.
New Zealand rugby should have probably started with the coaches if that was the thinking. -
@Nepia I would prefer Frizzell not mentioned in the same breath as the ABs. May using that physique to carry bags.
@broughie said in All Blacks 2022:
@Nepia I would prefer Frizzell not mentioned in the same breath as the ABs. May using that physique to carry bags.
Mate if Frizzell is fit and playing like he was this season , he will be first picked at 6.
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The question for me are the AB selecters going to pick their squad on form now and hope they can maintain that form through To October.
Or have they settled on 90% of their squad (maybe a couple of bolsters)and expect those player to grow into better form to peak when they want them to.I think it’s the latter so not a lot of changes to last years squad IMO.
It is a bit late one year out from the WC to start again,and strip the squad and reselect a bucket load of new players.
New Zealand rugby should have probably started with the coaches if that was the thinking. -
As a comparison here are the stats of the likely 4 Irish loose forwards that will play the ABs:
O'Mahony (107 kg, 1.91 m)
Doris (107 kg, 1.93 m)
van der Flier (103 kg, 1.88 m)
Conan (114 kg, 1.93 m)It reiterates that it's how the player makes the most of their size/height rather than what is written on paper.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2022:
As a comparison here are the stats of the likely 4 Irish loose forwards that will play the ABs:
O'Mahony (107 kg, 1.91 m)
Doris (107 kg, 1.93 m)
van der Flier (103 kg, 1.88 m)
Conan (114 kg, 1.93 m)It reiterates that it's how the player makes the most of their size/height rather than what is written on paper.
Amen Bovidae, it's pretty weak to select on either scales, tape measure or even ESPN stats!! Don't remember if anyone remembers a fella called Jonah Lomu who was meant to be too big to be a winger, ie not agile enough etc, and go back a fair few years where papers etc were asking if a certain Grant Batty was big enough for Test rugby.
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What if we had our 1991 type season in 2019 but the coaches didn't notice? We have lost two years of progress by not demoting the tight five players that got destroyed in 2019, and have continued to perform poorly.
We need to be realistic and set a goal of winning our quarter final. That will be against South Africa or Ireland, and unless they have a big dip in form, we will need a much more physical and dynamic tight five performance. If we play the 2019 tight five again, then we will have at best a 50% chance at winning playoff games. Duds at 12 and lack of a power winger won't help. Nor will a flaky first five.
If we don't give the younger, and better, tight five forwards a lot of game time this year, then we may as well give up. Moody, Taylor, Laulala, Whitelock, and Retallick are all has-beens. Whitelock is the really the only one who should have gotten game time last year.
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@broughie said in All Blacks 2022:
@Nepia I would prefer Frizzell not mentioned in the same breath as the ABs. May using that physique to carry bags.
Mate if Frizzell is fit and playing like he was this season , he will be first picked at 6.
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@broughie said in All Blacks 2022:
@Nepia I would prefer Frizzell not mentioned in the same breath as the ABs. May using that physique to carry bags.
Mate if Frizzell is fit and playing like he was this season , he will be first picked at 6.
What?
His Super form has never translated to test level.
The 6 shirt is up for grabs.
Blackadder and Akira are ahead of Frizell. I'd have Papali'i and Jacobson ahead of him too at 6.
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IIRC, Moody and Taylor have both been recently signed up to long term contracts, which shows how poorly the team has been managed.
@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
IIRC, Moody and Taylor have both been recently signed up to long term contracts, which shows how poorly the team has been managed.
But that won't (shouldn't) guarantee AB selection, only make them eligible for selection.
Experience is invaluable at a RWC, but those older players need to be performing and worthy of selection. In summary, we need a 2015 performance from some veterans, not the 1991 version where many players, including the captain, were well past their use-by date.
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@broughie said in All Blacks 2022:
@Nepia I would prefer Frizzell not mentioned in the same breath as the ABs. May using that physique to carry bags.
Mate if Frizzell is fit and playing like he was this season , he will be first picked at 6.
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What if we had our 1991 type season in 2019 but the coaches didn't notice? We have lost two years of progress by not demoting the tight five players that got destroyed in 2019, and have continued to perform poorly.
We need to be realistic and set a goal of winning our quarter final. That will be against South Africa or Ireland, and unless they have a big dip in form, we will need a much more physical and dynamic tight five performance. If we play the 2019 tight five again, then we will have at best a 50% chance at winning playoff games. Duds at 12 and lack of a power winger won't help. Nor will a flaky first five.
If we don't give the younger, and better, tight five forwards a lot of game time this year, then we may as well give up. Moody, Taylor, Laulala, Whitelock, and Retallick are all has-beens. Whitelock is the really the only one who should have gotten game time last year.
@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
What if we had our 1991 type season in 2019 but the coaches didn't notice? We have lost two years of progress by not demoting the tight five players that got destroyed in 2019, and have continued to perform poorly.
We need to be realistic and set a goal of winning our quarter final. That will be against South Africa or Ireland, and unless they have a big dip in form, we will need a much more physical and dynamic tight five performance. If we play the 2019 tight five again, then we will have at best a 50% chance at winning playoff games. Duds at 12 and lack of a power winger won't help. Nor will a flaky first five.
If we don't give the younger, and better, tight five forwards a lot of game time this year, then we may as well give up. Moody, Taylor, Laulala, Whitelock, and Retallick are all has-beens. Whitelock is the really the only one who should have gotten game time last year.
I think a lot of us gave up when NZR re signed foster and co before seeing what they were capable of cos 'it's too stressful to have uncertainty' The fact they didn't fall on their swords after the loss to arg, or the shit they served last year, means all hope is lost for this rwc
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The Irish series will be a great acid test. For the first time ever the Irish genuinely believe they can win at least 1 test in NZ. They will send out a squad that matches that belief. It’s so much better preparation than playing a Pacific Island team.
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@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
IIRC, Moody and Taylor have both been recently signed up to long term contracts, which shows how poorly the team has been managed.
But that won't (shouldn't) guarantee AB selection, only make them eligible for selection.
Experience is invaluable at a RWC, but those older players need to be performing and worthy of selection. In summary, we need a 2015 performance from some veterans, not the 1991 version where many players, including the captain, were well past their use-by date.
@Bovidae how long after Julian Savea signed his long term contract did his form fall off a cliff and he asked for a release?
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@ACT-Crusader Pretty much what I'm saying.
Last year we had loose trios like Blackadder, Papalií, Savea where any of those guys could have worn any loosie jersey number and all same-same.
@Kirwan - I bet Kaino in his prime was at least 115kgs. He was clearly bigger than Read, who my first hit gives as 111kgs.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader Pretty much what I'm saying.
Last year we had loose trios like Blackadder, Papalií, Savea where any of those guys could have worn any loosie jersey number and all same-same.
@Kirwan - I bet Kaino in his prime was at least 115kgs. He was clearly bigger than Read, who my first hit gives as 111kgs.
I remember seeing Kaino in Newmarket in a singlet and Shorts a few days before the 2011 WC , he was walking straight towards me holding his baby ,
I was blown away with what a huge athletic speciman he was , a man mountain , easy 112 kg plus would be my guess
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader Pretty much what I'm saying.
Last year we had loose trios like Blackadder, Papalií, Savea where any of those guys could have worn any loosie jersey number and all same-same.
@Kirwan - I bet Kaino in his prime was at least 115kgs. He was clearly bigger than Read, who my first hit gives as 111kgs.
I remember seeing Kaino in Newmarket in a singlet and Shorts a few days before the 2011 WC , he was walking straight towards me holding his baby ,
I was blown away with what a huge athletic speciman he was , a man mountain , easy 112 kg plus would be my guess
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader Pretty much what I'm saying.
Last year we had loose trios like Blackadder, Papalií, Savea where any of those guys could have worn any loosie jersey number and all same-same.
@Kirwan - I bet Kaino in his prime was at least 115kgs. He was clearly bigger than Read, who my first hit gives as 111kgs.
I remember seeing Kaino in Newmarket in a singlet and Shorts a few days before the 2011 WC , he was walking straight towards me holding his baby ,
I was blown away with what a huge athletic speciman he was , a man mountain , easy 112 kg plus would be my guess
Everyone looks big compared to a baby though
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@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader Pretty much what I'm saying.
Last year we had loose trios like Blackadder, Papalií, Savea where any of those guys could have worn any loosie jersey number and all same-same.
@Kirwan - I bet Kaino in his prime was at least 115kgs. He was clearly bigger than Read, who my first hit gives as 111kgs.
I remember seeing Kaino in Newmarket in a singlet and Shorts a few days before the 2011 WC , he was walking straight towards me holding his baby ,
I was blown away with what a huge athletic speciman he was , a man mountain , easy 112 kg plus would be my guess
Everyone looks big compared to a baby though
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader Pretty much what I'm saying.
Last year we had loose trios like Blackadder, Papalií, Savea where any of those guys could have worn any loosie jersey number and all same-same.
@Kirwan - I bet Kaino in his prime was at least 115kgs. He was clearly bigger than Read, who my first hit gives as 111kgs.
I remember seeing Kaino in Newmarket in a singlet and Shorts a few days before the 2011 WC , he was walking straight towards me holding his baby ,
I was blown away with what a huge athletic speciman he was , a man mountain , easy 112 kg plus would be my guess
Everyone looks big compared to a baby though
or compared to me
