All Blacks 2022
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2022:
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/where-damian-mckenzie-is-a-better-fit-than-richie-mounga/
Loads of bs in that article. Lots of picking examples to suit his argument. If I could be bothered (and had the time) I could pick huge holes in their so-called analysis. The BB-Dmac combo didn't work at all; history is being re-written here. Also, the Mo'unga-BB combo didn't work because BB kept playing as a 10 at fullback (two captains on a ship won't work either). That's why that combo was ditched, but only after the RWC.
Mo'unga at test level can work with a game plan that suits his style of playing and makes use of his strengths. We haven't seen that gameplan yet though.
It has also been said hundreds of times that we lost that RWC semi because the pack didn't do its job (partially because of stupid selections), but hey, blaming Mo'unga is so easy aye?Hey Ben if you're reading this (I'm pretty sure you're here on the Fern), you're a bit too transparent, but hey, it will give you clicks.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2022:
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/where-damian-mckenzie-is-a-better-fit-than-richie-mounga/
Not going to get into a DMac debate, but I'm just not convinced by Mo'unga. He's too flaky at Test level for me and struggles under pressure.
Need to start looking at Perofeta to see how he handles being in the AB's and how he goes at Test level.
@Victor-Meldrew Both DM and RM ( and BB) are players that can really thrive with front foot ball. If they don't have a platform, they get shut down. Every pivot in the game is the same. The French halves look great behind their pack, cripes even Gibson-Park looks like a world beater behind the Irish pack. Sort out the platform first and formost.
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BB at 10 with DMac at 15 would have been a damn sight better than Mo'unga at 10 with BB at 15.
But of course that ignores the fact we had one of our best ever 15s - B Smith - in form and in the squad but inexplicably not starting.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2022:
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/where-damian-mckenzie-is-a-better-fit-than-richie-mounga/
I have few qualms with that article.
While I don’t see a place in the starting 15 for DMac, I think he offers more in the 23 than RM.
When RM plays we adjust everyone else’s game to try and cover for him and opponents seek him out. For what returns?
If you watched DMac at 10 last year you would also have noticed him playing a different game to anyone else we have. He is searching for the best placed runner to get us moving forward and not just shovelling. Midfielders and fullbacks love it as they get to run at gaps from deep and know they will get a pass placed in front of them.
I would definitely be hopeful of getting him back in the squad@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2022:
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/where-damian-mckenzie-is-a-better-fit-than-richie-mounga/
I have few qualms with that article.
While I don’t see a place in the starting 15 for DMac, I think he offers more in the 23 than RM.
When RM plays we adjust everyone else’s game to try and cover for him and opponents seek him out. For what returns?
If you watched DMac at 10 last year you would also have noticed him playing a different game to anyone else we have. He is searching for the best placed runner to get us moving forward and not just shovelling. Midfielders and fullbacks love it as they get to run at gaps from deep and know they will get a pass placed in front of them.
I would definitely be hopeful of getting him back in the squadI liked the way DMac was playing at 10, would like to see him continue to develop his skillset there. It seemed that he was maturing the same was Jordie has where he was not trying to do too much, just playing within himself and waiting for opportunities to present.
I also think Mo'unga can offer a lot off the bench, he comes into his own against tired defenses and has made an impact in that role before.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2022:
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/where-damian-mckenzie-is-a-better-fit-than-richie-mounga/
Loads of bs in that article. Lots of picking examples to suit his argument. If I could be bothered (and had the time) I could pick huge holes in their so-called analysis. The BB-Dmac combo didn't work at all; history is being re-written here. Also, the Mo'unga-BB combo didn't work because BB kept playing as a 10 at fullback (two captains on a ship won't work either). That's why that combo was ditched, but only after the RWC.
Mo'unga at test level can work with a game plan that suits his style of playing and makes use of his strengths. We haven't seen that gameplan yet though.
It has also been said hundreds of times that we lost that RWC semi because the pack didn't do its job (partially because of stupid selections), but hey, blaming Mo'unga is so easy aye?Hey Ben if you're reading this (I'm pretty sure you're here on the Fern), you're a bit too transparent, but hey, it will give you clicks.
@Stargazer said in All Blacks 2022:
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2022:
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/where-damian-mckenzie-is-a-better-fit-than-richie-mounga/
Loads of bs in that article. Lots of picking examples to suit his argument. If I could be bothered (and had the time) I could pick huge holes in their so-called analysis. The BB-Dmac combo didn't work at all; history is being re-written here. Also, the Mo'unga-BB combo didn't work because BB kept playing as a 10 at fullback (two captains on a ship won't work either). That's why that combo was ditched, but only after the RWC.
Mo'unga at test level can work with a game plan that suits his style of playing and makes use of his strengths. We haven't seen that gameplan yet though.
It has also been said hundreds of times that we lost that RWC semi because the pack didn't do its job (partially because of stupid selections), but hey, blaming Mo'unga is so easy aye?Hey Ben if you're reading this (I'm pretty sure you're here on the Fern), you're a bit too transparent, but hey, it will give you clicks.
Are you denying that both France and England have set game plans to isolate RM in defence and get over the gain line? That doesn’t help our forwards not the other way around.
Coaches have tried to hide him to no avail and now we are saying that we need big 12s (not really our style) to offer him an out. -
@Victor-Meldrew Both DM and RM ( and BB) are players that can really thrive with front foot ball. If they don't have a platform, they get shut down. Every pivot in the game is the same. The French halves look great behind their pack, cripes even Gibson-Park looks like a world beater behind the Irish pack. Sort out the platform first and formost.
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew Both DM and RM ( and BB) are players that can really thrive with front foot ball. If they don't have a platform, they get shut down. Every pivot in the game is the same. The French halves look great behind their pack, cripes even Gibson-Park looks like a world beater behind the Irish pack. Sort out the platform first and formost.
While that's true, RM looks way more flaky than BB when he's not getting front-foot ball.
With Jordie a safe option at 15, I'd prefer to have BB at 10 with either RM or DMac providing cover in the 23.
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew Both DM and RM ( and BB) are players that can really thrive with front foot ball. If they don't have a platform, they get shut down. Every pivot in the game is the same. The French halves look great behind their pack, cripes even Gibson-Park looks like a world beater behind the Irish pack. Sort out the platform first and formost.
While that's true, RM looks way more flaky than BB when he's not getting front-foot ball.
With Jordie a safe option at 15, I'd prefer to have BB at 10 with either RM or DMac providing cover in the 23.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew Both DM and RM ( and BB) are players that can really thrive with front foot ball. If they don't have a platform, they get shut down. Every pivot in the game is the same. The French halves look great behind their pack, cripes even Gibson-Park looks like a world beater behind the Irish pack. Sort out the platform first and formost.
While that's true, RM looks way more flaky than BB when he's not getting front-foot ball.
With Jordie a safe option at 15, I'd prefer to have BB at 10 with either RM or DMac providing cover in the 23.
My two biggest concerns with our two 1st 5s at test level, RM crabs across field aimlessly at times and BB’s kicking game is very poor (distance wise and accuracy).
I’m not a huge fan of the game plan that they are either running or being asked to run at AB level.
I still haven’t lost faith in either but both can be exciting but also cause heart in mouth moments too.
DMac at 10, no thanks. I like DMac at fullback, but he could also be a very good winger (waits for incoming)
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew Both DM and RM ( and BB) are players that can really thrive with front foot ball. If they don't have a platform, they get shut down. Every pivot in the game is the same. The French halves look great behind their pack, cripes even Gibson-Park looks like a world beater behind the Irish pack. Sort out the platform first and formost.
While that's true, RM looks way more flaky than BB when he's not getting front-foot ball.
With Jordie a safe option at 15, I'd prefer to have BB at 10 with either RM or DMac providing cover in the 23.
My two biggest concerns with our two 1st 5s at test level, RM crabs across field aimlessly at times and BB’s kicking game is very poor (distance wise and accuracy).
I’m not a huge fan of the game plan that they are either running or being asked to run at AB level.
I still haven’t lost faith in either but both can be exciting but also cause heart in mouth moments too.
DMac at 10, no thanks. I like DMac at fullback, but he could also be a very good winger (waits for incoming)
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
DMac at 10, no thanks. I like DMac at fullback, but he could also be a very good winger (waits for incoming)
Yeah, I think that's his best position in Black. He was outstanding there on the 2018 NH tour.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2022:
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/where-damian-mckenzie-is-a-better-fit-than-richie-mounga/
I have few qualms with that article.
While I don’t see a place in the starting 15 for DMac, I think he offers more in the 23 than RM.
When RM plays we adjust everyone else’s game to try and cover for him and opponents seek him out. For what returns?
If you watched DMac at 10 last year you would also have noticed him playing a different game to anyone else we have. He is searching for the best placed runner to get us moving forward and not just shovelling. Midfielders and fullbacks love it as they get to run at gaps from deep and know they will get a pass placed in front of them.
I would definitely be hopeful of getting him back in the squad -
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew Both DM and RM ( and BB) are players that can really thrive with front foot ball. If they don't have a platform, they get shut down. Every pivot in the game is the same. The French halves look great behind their pack, cripes even Gibson-Park looks like a world beater behind the Irish pack. Sort out the platform first and formost.
While that's true, RM looks way more flaky than BB when he's not getting front-foot ball.
With Jordie a safe option at 15, I'd prefer to have BB at 10 with either RM or DMac providing cover in the 23.
My two biggest concerns with our two 1st 5s at test level, RM crabs across field aimlessly at times and BB’s kicking game is very poor (distance wise and accuracy).
I’m not a huge fan of the game plan that they are either running or being asked to run at AB level.
I still haven’t lost faith in either but both can be exciting but also cause heart in mouth moments too.
DMac at 10, no thanks. I like DMac at fullback, but he could also be a very good winger (waits for incoming)
@ACT-Crusader and RM with Havili is not good as DH has a tendancy to crab also, for RM at 10, you need a straight running 12, whereas BB I think you can have someone who is a bit more of a creator in DH.
For my mind RM and DM are so similar, it's one or the other, not both in your 23.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2022:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@broughie said in All Blacks 2022:
@Nepia I would prefer Frizzell not mentioned in the same breath as the ABs. May using that physique to carry bags.
Mate if Frizzell is fit and playing like he was this season , he will be first picked at 6.
What?
His Super form has never translated to test level.
The 6 shirt is up for grabs.
Blackadder and Akira are ahead of Frizell. I'd have Papali'i and Jacobson ahead of him too at 6.
Agree, and has he ever actually shown much form at Super level? I mean he's been decent but hasn't consistently dominated like the others you mention. He's just been picked on potential alone, time to move on.
You obviously didn't watch a lot of super rugby especially this year, almos every pundit had him as the best 6 in NZ , and I didn't think it was close. And no I not a Highlanders' man , just someone who watches evrything and everyone.
I watched him miss 6 tackles and make 6 tackles vs the Crusaders - meanwhile in the same game Blackadder made over 20 tackles and only missed 1.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2022:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@broughie said in All Blacks 2022:
@Nepia I would prefer Frizzell not mentioned in the same breath as the ABs. May using that physique to carry bags.
Mate if Frizzell is fit and playing like he was this season , he will be first picked at 6.
What?
His Super form has never translated to test level.
The 6 shirt is up for grabs.
Blackadder and Akira are ahead of Frizell. I'd have Papali'i and Jacobson ahead of him too at 6.
Agree, and has he ever actually shown much form at Super level? I mean he's been decent but hasn't consistently dominated like the others you mention. He's just been picked on potential alone, time to move on.
You obviously didn't watch a lot of super rugby especially this year, almos every pundit had him as the best 6 in NZ , and I didn't think it was close. And no I not a Highlanders' man , just someone who watches evrything and everyone.
I watched him miss 6 tackles and make 6 tackles vs the Crusaders - meanwhile in the same game Blackadder made over 20 tackles and only missed 1.
No you are being a bit untruthful, you read some ESPN stats that reckoned that, and I understand that's how you chose to pick your team on ESPN stats. I will keep doing it on what I see, and respected rugby pundits.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
Akira has been exactly same, he has one good test where our tighties gave Aus a hiding
Not sure where this 'one test,' comes from.
Akira has had numerous good tests that really stand out
- Argentina test 2 2020
- Bledisloe test 2 2021
- Bledisloe test 3 2021
He also played well in other tests (he was excellent for 20 mins on debut Bledisloe 3 in Brisbane 2020 when ABs were under the pump until he had to go off as Ofa got red carded) but those in particular stand out.
Now Akira had a chance to nail down the 6 jersey vs Boks last year and failed to do so in both games - hence the jersey is still up for grabs.
The only test i can think of that comes to mind for Frizell where he played well was off the bench vs Fiji test 2 last year when the result was not in the balance. Other than that it's a whole bunch of meh - his ball running in particular just doesn't translate.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
Akira has been exactly same, he has one good test where our tighties gave Aus a hiding
Not sure where this 'one test,' comes from.
Akira has had numerous good tests that really stand out
- Argentina test 2 2020
- Bledisloe test 2 2021
- Bledisloe test 3 2021
He also played well in other tests (he was excellent for 20 mins on debut Bledisloe 3 in Brisbane 2020 when ABs were under the pump until he had to go off as Ofa got red carded) but those in particular stand out.
Now Akira had a chance to nail down the 6 jersey vs Boks last year and failed to do so in both games - hence the jersey is still up for grabs.
The only test i can think of that comes to mind for Frizell where he played well was off the bench vs Fiji test 2 last year when the result was not in the balance. Other than that it's a whole bunch of meh - his ball running in particular just doesn't translate.
Akira has seldom put together a good lot of work, though he getting better, he has tended to be up and down, but that also maybe works in with tighties. But regardless as I said I would have Akira at 6 if he plays well for rest of Super, as I said about Frizzell was only on this years form. And since he been injured Jacobson has probably looked best at 6. I made comment on what has happened in Super so far this year, and is why at this stage I thinking Jacobson. As I said in first post up until he was injured I reckoned Frizzell would first pick, I was not saying that would be case at end of super, just a few got their panties in a twist. Akira wasn't playing and Jacobson had only had a game or 2. I real keen on Blackadder, but not convinced he a test 6, he looks a bloody good 6.5?
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2022:
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/where-damian-mckenzie-is-a-better-fit-than-richie-mounga/
Loads of bs in that article. Lots of picking examples to suit his argument. If I could be bothered (and had the time) I could pick huge holes in their so-called analysis. The BB-Dmac combo didn't work at all; history is being re-written here. Also, the Mo'unga-BB combo didn't work because BB kept playing as a 10 at fullback (two captains on a ship won't work either). That's why that combo was ditched, but only after the RWC.
Mo'unga at test level can work with a game plan that suits his style of playing and makes use of his strengths. We haven't seen that gameplan yet though.
It has also been said hundreds of times that we lost that RWC semi because the pack didn't do its job (partially because of stupid selections), but hey, blaming Mo'unga is so easy aye?Hey Ben if you're reading this (I'm pretty sure you're here on the Fern), you're a bit too transparent, but hey, it will give you clicks.
@Stargazer said in All Blacks 2022:
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2022:
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/where-damian-mckenzie-is-a-better-fit-than-richie-mounga/
Loads of bs in that article. Lots of picking examples to suit his argument. If I could be bothered (and had the time) I could pick huge holes in their so-called analysis. The BB-Dmac combo didn't work at all; history is being re-written here. Also, the Mo'unga-BB combo didn't work because BB kept playing as a 10 at fullback (two captains on a ship won't work either). That's why that combo was ditched, but only after the RWC.
Mo'unga at test level can work with a game plan that suits his style of playing and makes use of his strengths. We haven't seen that gameplan yet though.
It has also been said hundreds of times that we lost that RWC semi because the pack didn't do its job (partially because of stupid selections), but hey, blaming Mo'unga is so easy aye?Hey Ben if you're reading this (I'm pretty sure you're here on the Fern), you're a bit too transparent, but hey, it will give you clicks.
Not sure about your comment on BB playing at 10, because if you watch the Crusaders you will see Havili does same, seems to suit RM playing as second playmaker.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2022:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@broughie said in All Blacks 2022:
@Nepia I would prefer Frizzell not mentioned in the same breath as the ABs. May using that physique to carry bags.
Mate if Frizzell is fit and playing like he was this season , he will be first picked at 6.
What?
His Super form has never translated to test level.
The 6 shirt is up for grabs.
Blackadder and Akira are ahead of Frizell. I'd have Papali'i and Jacobson ahead of him too at 6.
Agree, and has he ever actually shown much form at Super level? I mean he's been decent but hasn't consistently dominated like the others you mention. He's just been picked on potential alone, time to move on.
You obviously didn't watch a lot of super rugby especially this year, almos every pundit had him as the best 6 in NZ , and I didn't think it was close. And no I not a Highlanders' man , just someone who watches evrything and everyone.
I watched him miss 6 tackles and make 6 tackles vs the Crusaders - meanwhile in the same game Blackadder made over 20 tackles and only missed 1.
No you are being a bit untruthful, you read some ESPN stats that reckoned that, and I understand that's how you chose to pick your team on ESPN stats. I will keep doing it on what I see, and respected rugby pundits.
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
I will keep doing it on what I see, and respected rugby pundits.
I'd be interested in who these respected rugby pundits are? Paul Cully who lives in Dunedin?
The reason there is push back on Frizell is his test form is underwhelming - how many more chances is he going to get? This will be his 5th year in the ABs and he simply hasn't delivered. I'm not a real big fan of going up against Ireland with a guy at 6 who simply hasn't taken his chances (and that's leaving aside his off field stuff).
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Frizell had a good test vs Argentina early on and there was one vs Australia in 2020 where he spent the day trucking it up at first receiver where I thought he was good. Mainly he's been OK without being outstanding.
He's bigger and less mobile than our other options and they've used him tighter, so you don't see him making big runs in the tramlines.
Simple fact is though, that no-one has consistently nailed 6. I hope someone does this year and I don't care who it is.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
I will keep doing it on what I see, and respected rugby pundits.
I'd be interested in who these respected rugby pundits are? Paul Cully who lives in Dunedin?
The reason there is push back on Frizell is his test form is underwhelming - how many more chances is he going to get? This will be his 5th year in the ABs and he simply hasn't delivered. I'm not a real big fan of going up against Ireland with a guy at 6 who simply hasn't taken his chances (and that's leaving aside his off field stuff).
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
I will keep doing it on what I see, and respected rugby pundits.
I'd be interested in who these respected rugby pundits are? Paul Cully who lives in Dunedin?
The reason there is push back on Frizell is his test form is underwhelming - how many more chances is he going to get? This will be his 5th year in the ABs and he simply hasn't delivered. I'm not a real big fan of going up against Ireland with a guy at 6 who simply hasn't taken his chances (and that's leaving aside his off field stuff).
Who the hells Paul Cully isn't he some writer for Sydney Morning Herald. No I talking about the likes of (just an example) James Parsons, Bryn hall etc etc. are 2 that have reckoned he was best 6 early on, you know someone who actually plays and has played, I know it seems dumb to take any notice of people who actually tied up in game and watch/play it as jobs when we got a forum to take notice of.
That is in no way saying none of us are entitled to opinion, everyone is. Just you asked me who were any pundits I take notice of, and then name who you think is oI should be ?
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Frizell had a good test vs Argentina early on and there was one vs Australia in 2020 where he spent the day trucking it up at first receiver where I thought he was good. Mainly he's been OK without being outstanding.
He's bigger and less mobile than our other options and they've used him tighter, so you don't see him making big runs in the tramlines.
Simple fact is though, that no-one has consistently nailed 6. I hope someone does this year and I don't care who it is.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
Frizell had a good test vs Argentina early on and there was one vs Australia in 2020 where he spent the day trucking it up at first receiver where I thought he was good. Mainly he's been OK without being outstanding.
He's bigger and less mobile than our other options and they've used him tighter, so you don't see him making big runs in the tramlines.
Simple fact is though, that no-one has consistently nailed 6. I hope someone does this year and I don't care who it is.
i think until last year he'd stopped others getting more than a game or two in a row to prove themselves becuase he kept getting chances
I sit very much between the two view points, i feel he is/can be very mobile and attacking, scored a hatrick on debut at super level....but cant convert on the big stage, dont know if it is just because its against higher level opposition or there is some mental aspect, like reverse nonu who tended to get better in the black jersey
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
Frizell had a good test vs Argentina early on and there was one vs Australia in 2020 where he spent the day trucking it up at first receiver where I thought he was good. Mainly he's been OK without being outstanding.
He's bigger and less mobile than our other options and they've used him tighter, so you don't see him making big runs in the tramlines.
Simple fact is though, that no-one has consistently nailed 6. I hope someone does this year and I don't care who it is.
i think until last year he'd stopped others getting more than a game or two in a row to prove themselves becuase he kept getting chances
I sit very much between the two view points, i feel he is/can be very mobile and attacking, scored a hatrick on debut at super level....but cant convert on the big stage, dont know if it is just because its against higher level opposition or there is some mental aspect, like reverse nonu who tended to get better in the black jersey
@Kiwiwomble He may suddenly become the answer, then - like Nonu.
You weren't around here in 2007, but Nonu's name was mud and no-one wanted him near the ABs (me and a guy called Mojo were the last to give up on him).
I distinctly recall someone writing, "Don't let the door hit your arse on the way out, Nonu"!
