Stadium of Canterbury
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@kiwiwomble I don't see many people biking to work. It's that simple.
@shark said in Stadium of Canterbury:
@kiwiwomble I don't see many people biking to work. It's that simple.
Build it and they will come?
Trouble is that no one really knows the uptake until it is built. Some cities have usage well above expectations, some well below.
As far as places like Wellington go it is a very small but vocal group that try to dominate council thinking. Wellington is a terrible place for cycling with or without infrastructure. Weather and geography being the main barriers to take up.
I don't know the situation in Chch that well but I assume that those barriers are no worse than say London. Boris' cycleways are a complete balls up as they were done half arsed using paint. They don't link up and in some places are more dangerous than what was already there. However, they are well used. The demand is there and many people are happy for some of the pain points in the roads to be taken away. It is all about opening up the possibility to deeper layers of the community than the lycra boys. Bonus points if it calms down the behaviour of some of those twats as well.
I know that I wouldn't have cycled to work in London without the cycleways as they gave me the ability to plot a safe(ish) route.Compared to roading for vehicles those costs you quote are about one roundabouts worth. I'd say let them do it. If it works then you add another dimension to the livability of your city. As a visitor it is a shit place to drive around. Any improvement is just that.
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@kiwiwomble said in Stadium of Canterbury:
@shark as I say, I use too and there were hundreds of others when I did, and that’s just along the route I took
Hang on, you used to see HUNDREDS of others as you cycled in? Were they all on 10 speeds? I suspect they carried on in a large pack up into the hills and you mistook commuters for racing cyclists.
@shark bikes are a great option in Christchurch as it's so flat, the only issue is some tough winters. That said, cycleways are great - but expensive cycleways are painful. There's often a lot of costs loaded onto them that aren't really directly related to the cycleway.
But - build a good network, and people will use it. But damn, do it fast, do it cheaply, and get cyclists involved in the actual design.
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@shark bikes are a great option in Christchurch as it's so flat, the only issue is some tough winters. That said, cycleways are great - but expensive cycleways are painful. There's often a lot of costs loaded onto them that aren't really directly related to the cycleway.
But - build a good network, and people will use it. But damn, do it fast, do it cheaply, and get cyclists involved in the actual design.
@nzzp said in Stadium of Canterbury:
@shark bikes are a great option in Christchurch as it's so flat, the only issue is some tough winters. That said, cycleways are great - but expensive cycleways are painful. There's often a lot of costs loaded onto them that aren't really directly related to the cycleway.
But - build a good network, and people will use it. But damn, do it fast, do it cheaply, and get cyclists involved in the actual design.
As someone who is probably a 'next tier down' cyclist ( ie not a full on 'aggressive'with the gear and ability to go as fast as the cars, but skilled enough to mix it a bit and hold my own), here are some random thoughts.
- In narrow areas - a dedicated cycle path that is illegal for cars to enter or park on. NO loading zones. For less confident cyclist this would also need a physical curb or barrier.
- The other way is to widen the curb and footpath to a shared pathway for cyclists and pedestrians. This is better for vehicle flow and safety (car on cyclist is usually worse than cyclist on pedestrian). However, when designed you still need to workout which solution is best in that particular stretch. Sometimes you lose more road to widen the curb than you would to put in a one metre lane. Some places it is impracticable for residents and businesses to lose parking.
- Where you have plenty of room then a dedicated bike path (ie alongside an expressway) BUT is needs to stay maintained as bikes don't sweep the road in the same way cars do and as soon as the path gets dirty/gritty etc riders will stop using it.
- If you can plot a route through parks then do so.
- Underpasses are expensive in themselves but can save lots in the rest of the design as they eliminate the danger spot right at the source instead of convoluted systems of crossings and lights.
- Most important though is the attitude of everybody. Drivers, cyclists and pedestrians all have to work together and not claim 'their rights' all the time.
- Same goes for policing. You often end up with places where it is much much safer for a cyclist to 'anticipate' a light change and get a start before being jammed by a truck or bus. I'll admit that this doesn't apply as much to E-bikes that can boost off the line although E-vehicles will soon negate that advantage.
- E-bikes are also a big game changer as more people can ride to work without cranking up a sweat and needing to shower and change.
The best thing by far is to use parks as much as possible. Less impact on roads, more enjoyable ride for more people, more ability for cyclists to go at their own pace.
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@machpants said in Stadium of Canterbury:
It's finished now, right? Cos fuck me this thread had gone on forever!
Yip, finished, includes a velodrome track around the rugby field by the sounds of it. Like old school Okara Park and Rugby Park.
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@machpants said in Stadium of Canterbury:
It's finished now, right? Cos fuck me this thread had gone on forever!
Yip, finished, includes a velodrome track around the rugby field by the sounds of it. Like old school Okara Park and Rugby Park.
@rapido said in Stadium of Canterbury:
@machpants said in Stadium of Canterbury:
It's finished now, right? Cos fuck me this thread had gone on forever!
Yip, finished, includes a velodrome track around the rugby field by the sounds of it. Like old school Okara Park and Rugby Park.
Good. The one thing I've never liked about rugby grounds is being able to see the players.
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@rapido said in Stadium of Canterbury:
@machpants said in Stadium of Canterbury:
It's finished now, right? Cos fuck me this thread had gone on forever!
Yip, finished, includes a velodrome track around the rugby field by the sounds of it. Like old school Okara Park and Rugby Park.
Good. The one thing I've never liked about rugby grounds is being able to see the players.
@antipodean i think you were being sarcastic...but you can be TOO close
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@nzzp i was honestly going to come here and wind up Shark by suggesting, with the input costs of construction through the roof, for their budget Christchurch is getting a grass embankment and a couple of pop-ups from Bunnings.
Old school cool
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@nzzp said in Stadium of Canterbury:
That's stunning incompetence from the council. The stadium should've been built by now.
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its time to cut their cloth....work out what they can build for their budget...what they can get their contractor to commit too, maybe its the same thing without a roof....maybe it has to go back to having to build individual stands over time
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Cutting out the velodrome track would be a good start. You could hardly see the players at the Olympic Stadium here in Tokyo. Complete waste of time going to watch rugby there. Make it hockey/soccer/rugby, etc multi-purpose and cut out the other shit that pushes the spectator away.
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Cutting out the velodrome track would be a good start. You could hardly see the players at the Olympic Stadium here in Tokyo. Complete waste of time going to watch rugby there. Make it hockey/soccer/rugby, etc multi-purpose and cut out the other shit that pushes the spectator away.
@Old-Samurai-Jack is doesn;t have a velodrome track does it?...its just a rectangular pitch
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this is not getting built. The Council don't want it, and now they have the perfect out, and they'll let the public make the decision for them.
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@Old-Samurai-Jack is doesn;t have a velodrome track does it?...its just a rectangular pitch
@Kiwiwomble said in Stadium of Canterbury:
@Old-Samurai-Jack is doesn;t have a velodrome track does it?...its just a rectangular pitch
It there is a cycle track round the outside of the playing field there will be some spectacular crashes on the rather tight corners not to mention not much room to pass another rider on the narrow track. Now I come to think of it full contact bike racing might prove to be a real drawcard and get the crowds streaming in through the turnstyles..
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the final option, if we feel there is enough people in canterbury to justify this design...then let them pay for it, my football team in the uk raised bonds in our new stadium, i dropped a couple of grand on one...user pays
@Kiwiwomble said in Stadium of Canterbury:
the final option, if we feel there is enough people in canterbury to justify this design...then let them pay for it, my football team in the uk raised bonds in our new stadium, i dropped a couple of grand on one...user pays
10-12 years ago you could get a 30,000 seat covered rectangular stadium for $225M.
Now it's $683M for a ... 30,000 seat covered stadium? That's not just inflation.
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Just build some stands around a rugby field. Forget about a roof and indoor concerts etc
The locals are used to the conditions in winter. Plus the elements are part of the home ground advantage for when a team like the Reds visit
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and as for the bonds, it's only $1,000 per person, assuming everyone participates from Canterbury region. mind you, that stretches from near Ward to the Waitaki.
Stadium economics don't stack up. Just a reminder, if you want to return 6% on the spend (to allow for upkeep, capital costs, etc), you need to generate $40M profit a year. Which is selling out a 30,000 seat stadium 27 times a year for a $50 profit over operating costs. And that's just to return 6%.
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Just build some stands around a rugby field. Forget about a roof and indoor concerts etc
The locals are used to the conditions in winter. Plus the elements are part of the home ground advantage for when a team like the Reds visit
@Duluth said in Stadium of Canterbury:
Just build some stands around a rugby field. Forget about a roof and indoor concerts etc
The locals are used to the conditions in winter. Plus the elements are part of the home ground advantage for when a team like the Reds visit
couple of BBQs
Chilly Bin full of Cantab Draftfucking sorted.
