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@Bones said in Trans in sport / Laurel Hubbard:
@No-Quarter aren't they the ones stereotyping males by making the rule that tractors are a male only domain? This confusing world.
They are the mirror image of the ultra traditional conservatives with the amount of importance they put on gender roles and stereotypes in society. Other than them, basically nobody in western countries are enforcing strict gender roles. In fact in human history we probably have the loosest gender roles ever by a huge margin.
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@MajorRage said in Trans in sport / Laurel Hubbard:
@No-Quarter said in Trans in sport / Laurel Hubbard:
Looks like this parent underestimated just how fukin cool tractors are
The is one of the many things where activists are tone deaf.
My son loves all the stereotypical boy stuff, my daughter all the stereotypical girl stuff. They always have.
Putting dolls in boys hands and toy cars in girls hands won't achieve a single thing. Kids gravitate towards what they want to.
Yeah, as a parent one thing that becomes very clear with your kids from an early age is that you have almost no influence on what they like. They will do their own thing regardless of what you say. In this story the Dad does end up realising this and there's a pic of him taking the boy on a tractor. You can't fight biology.
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Edit: two things about the above.
- The ABC story is headlined "what the science says", but includes reference/interview with only one mrdical professional, who makes unquantified claims about one aspect, ie., strength reduces through testosterone reduction. Doesn't say how much by.
- Interesting they include the counselling services at the end of that article. More grandstanding about the feels of the mentally ill. The cynic in me suggests it's not a bad thing but for different reasons than the publishers think.
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The “controversy” is a birth certificate. The sex identified at birth is the “gender” that students are restricted to participate in athletics. Seems like common sense to me, but I’m a knuckle-dragger, hence, controversial.
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Important to remember.
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Let’s trash a restaurant cos Rowling ate at its sister.
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@MajorRage There's something wrong with modern Western living that we can have so many mentally ill people wandering around.
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@antipodean said in Trans in sport / Laurel Hubbard:
@MajorRage There's something wrong with modern Western living that we can have so many mentally ill people wandering around.
I think it’s turned myself.
People are clearly differentiating between trans and trans activists.
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@MajorRage It must be horrible dealing with gender dysphoria as an adult and simply wanting to live while these lunatics are making noise.
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@antipodean said in Trans in sport / Laurel Hubbard:
@MajorRage It must be horrible dealing with gender dysphoria as an adult and simply wanting to live while these lunatics are making noise.
I would suggest that is the consensus now.
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@Stargazer seems sensible on the face of it.
It really highlights how little data is avialable to decision makers, to allow such fundamentally different positions to be held (puberty enhances capability permanently, vs no real effect, hormones control everything at any stage in life)
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So they are banning biological males that transitioned after the age of 12. There should also be a law against children under the age of 12 (well 18 for that matter) from being allowed to medically transition as there's no way in hell they are mature enough to make a life altering decision like that.
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@No-Quarter I heard an ad on a podcast about another podcast with a lady talking about her 3yo coming out to her. "Mummy everyone thinks I'm a boy, but I'm a girl", said Penelope.
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@No-Quarter said in Trans in sport / Laurel Hubbard:
So they are banning biological males that transitioned after the age of 12. There should also be a law against children under the age of 12 (well 18 for that matter) from being allowed to medically transition as there's no way in hell they are mature enough to make a life altering decision like that.
I suspect it's legal advice based on the science. If puberty is the difference, then kids who don't go through puberty can't be discriminated against.
The 'open' category is the one I find weird. Can't see it progressing, feels like a last minute compromise somewhere.
Brave move by FINA, but I think there will be strong and ongoing blowback on social media and media, and a whole lot of people who quietly support it.
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@nzzp said in Trans in sport / Laurel Hubbard:
@No-Quarter said in Trans in sport / Laurel Hubbard:
So they are banning biological males that transitioned after the age of 12. There should also be a law against children under the age of 12 (well 18 for that matter) from being allowed to medically transition as there's no way in hell they are mature enough to make a life altering decision like that.
I suspect it's legal advice based on the science. If puberty is the difference, then kids who don't go through puberty can't be discriminated against.
The 'open' category is the one I find weird. Can't see it progressing, feels like a last minute compromise somewhere.
Brave move by FINA, but I think there will be strong and ongoing blowback on social media and media, and a whole lot of people who quietly support it.
Huge move
Everyone else will follow suit
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@nzzp said in Trans in sport / Laurel Hubbard:
Brave move by FINA, but I think there will be strong and ongoing blowback on social media and media, and a whole lot of people who quietly support it.
I think it shows some good thinking has gone on behind the scenes and they have come up with a reasonable and rational approach which is as fair as it can be to everyone.
In the current climate, I think they should be applauded for that.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Trans in sport / Laurel Hubbard:
@nzzp said in Trans in sport / Laurel Hubbard:
Brave move by FINA, but I think there will be strong and ongoing blowback on social media and media, and a whole lot of people who quietly support it.
I think it shows some good thinking has gone on behind the scenes and they have come up with a reasonable and rational approach which is as fair as it can be to everyone.
In the current climate, I think they should be applauded for that.
also, I caught a bit of the discussion on it and apparently they presented a bunch of scientific evidence including that 14-15 year old boys post times that are faster than the elite women. So there's that.
The issue for folk will be that you don't allow women who used to be men the ability to fully express themselves. And they are correct. If you don't you make a mockery of a protected class. Anyhoo, I'm sure there will be disagreement about this from a lot of people, but I expect ghe reasoning is strong given the incoming lawsuits
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The solution is simple. An open category (men) and two protected categories; women and disabled.
Because trans women aren't women, they still get to participate.
The performance discrepancy is immense as given by these examples from 2017
More at https://law.duke.edu/sports/sex-sport/comparative-athletic-performance/
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The “former men but not any more open" category should open up a number of gold medal prospects for Lia Thomas who would be a certainty to win the following events
50metres Open freestyle
100metres Open reestyle
200metres open freestyle
400metres Open freesytle
800metres Open freestyle
1500metres Open freestyle
100metres Open backstroke
200metres Open backstroke
100metres Open butterfly
200metres Open butterfly
100metres Open breaststroke
200metres Open breaststroke
200metres Open individual medley
400metres Open individual medley
1 metre springboard bellyflop
3metre springboard bellyflop
10metre tower bellyflop
Open Individual synchronised swimming
That looks like 18 individual golds at just the one Olympics, a record that will surely never be beaten, especially if she (it/they/them?) compete at multiple Games.
Just a shame that one swimmer is not allowed to complete more than one leg in the multiple relay events or she could top over 20 gold medals in a single Olympics. Come to think of it Laurel Hubbard could pick up a swag of silvers is she decides to have a go.
Transgender debate, in sport, in general
EDEN CONFIDENTIAL: Vandals trash restaurant where JK Rowling was
