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@antipodean said in Trans in sport / Laurel Hubbard:
@MajorRage It must be horrible dealing with gender dysphoria as an adult and simply wanting to live while these lunatics are making noise.
I would suggest that is the consensus now.
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@Stargazer seems sensible on the face of it.
It really highlights how little data is avialable to decision makers, to allow such fundamentally different positions to be held (puberty enhances capability permanently, vs no real effect, hormones control everything at any stage in life)
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So they are banning biological males that transitioned after the age of 12. There should also be a law against children under the age of 12 (well 18 for that matter) from being allowed to medically transition as there's no way in hell they are mature enough to make a life altering decision like that.
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@No-Quarter I heard an ad on a podcast about another podcast with a lady talking about her 3yo coming out to her. "Mummy everyone thinks I'm a boy, but I'm a girl", said Penelope.
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@No-Quarter said in Trans in sport / Laurel Hubbard:
So they are banning biological males that transitioned after the age of 12. There should also be a law against children under the age of 12 (well 18 for that matter) from being allowed to medically transition as there's no way in hell they are mature enough to make a life altering decision like that.
I suspect it's legal advice based on the science. If puberty is the difference, then kids who don't go through puberty can't be discriminated against.
The 'open' category is the one I find weird. Can't see it progressing, feels like a last minute compromise somewhere.
Brave move by FINA, but I think there will be strong and ongoing blowback on social media and media, and a whole lot of people who quietly support it.
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@nzzp said in Trans in sport / Laurel Hubbard:
@No-Quarter said in Trans in sport / Laurel Hubbard:
So they are banning biological males that transitioned after the age of 12. There should also be a law against children under the age of 12 (well 18 for that matter) from being allowed to medically transition as there's no way in hell they are mature enough to make a life altering decision like that.
I suspect it's legal advice based on the science. If puberty is the difference, then kids who don't go through puberty can't be discriminated against.
The 'open' category is the one I find weird. Can't see it progressing, feels like a last minute compromise somewhere.
Brave move by FINA, but I think there will be strong and ongoing blowback on social media and media, and a whole lot of people who quietly support it.
Huge move
Everyone else will follow suit
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@nzzp said in Trans in sport / Laurel Hubbard:
Brave move by FINA, but I think there will be strong and ongoing blowback on social media and media, and a whole lot of people who quietly support it.
I think it shows some good thinking has gone on behind the scenes and they have come up with a reasonable and rational approach which is as fair as it can be to everyone.
In the current climate, I think they should be applauded for that.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Trans in sport / Laurel Hubbard:
@nzzp said in Trans in sport / Laurel Hubbard:
Brave move by FINA, but I think there will be strong and ongoing blowback on social media and media, and a whole lot of people who quietly support it.
I think it shows some good thinking has gone on behind the scenes and they have come up with a reasonable and rational approach which is as fair as it can be to everyone.
In the current climate, I think they should be applauded for that.
also, I caught a bit of the discussion on it and apparently they presented a bunch of scientific evidence including that 14-15 year old boys post times that are faster than the elite women. So there's that.
The issue for folk will be that you don't allow women who used to be men the ability to fully express themselves. And they are correct. If you don't you make a mockery of a protected class. Anyhoo, I'm sure there will be disagreement about this from a lot of people, but I expect ghe reasoning is strong given the incoming lawsuits
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The solution is simple. An open category (men) and two protected categories; women and disabled.
Because trans women aren't women, they still get to participate.
The performance discrepancy is immense as given by these examples from 2017
More at https://law.duke.edu/sports/sex-sport/comparative-athletic-performance/
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The āformer men but not any more open" category should open up a number of gold medal prospects for Lia Thomas who would be a certainty to win the following events
50metres Open freestyle
100metres Open reestyle
200metres open freestyle
400metres Open freesytle
800metres Open freestyle
1500metres Open freestyle
100metres Open backstroke
200metres Open backstroke
100metres Open butterfly
200metres Open butterfly
100metres Open breaststroke
200metres Open breaststroke
200metres Open individual medley
400metres Open individual medley
1 metre springboard bellyflop
3metre springboard bellyflop
10metre tower bellyflop
Open Individual synchronised swimming
That looks like 18 individual golds at just the one Olympics, a record that will surely never be beaten, especially if she (it/they/them?) compete at multiple Games.
Just a shame that one swimmer is not allowed to complete more than one leg in the multiple relay events or she could top over 20 gold medals in a single Olympics. Come to think of it Laurel Hubbard could pick up a swag of silvers is she decides to have a go. -
A number of comments:
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Well done FINA. Nearly got it right. The whole puberty thing still leaves it open. Don't know about you but in my lived experience growing up I really can't recall any prepubescent girl being more athletic that the boys in my classes at school.
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WRT to the transitioning prior to 12. The major draw back. We all assume that this could never happen but there are enough evil people in the world who are busily paving the road to hell who would perpetrate this on children.
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The ABC's coverage is all about how "diversity experts", or 'Hannah' Mouncey, or some trans activist is declaring it discriminatory, or how it's not a big deal because it's only US collegiate sport and trans aren't dominating the Olympics etc. Quite sickening really. Report the facts please.
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UCI did the opposite on the weekend and essentially said everyone should have an opportunity, just not necessarily an equal opportunity.
Anyway, a step in the right direction. Well done FINA for as far as it goes.
WRT to the 'open' category (ie, the not female). Everyone sensible would agree with that, but the Trans activists are so convinced that TWAW that they must be treated as women. Anything short is bigotry. Will never happen. So just set the definition of women (get a biologist in), and if you don't make the cut you're a bloke.
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@nzzp said in Trans in sport / Laurel Hubbard:
The 'open' category is the one I find weird. Can't see it progressing, feels like a last minute compromise somewhere.
Centuries-old common sense, the way horse racing has been doing it since before there was modern sports. Derbies are restricted to 3yos; Oaks are restricted to 3yo fillies, there are races where geldings are restricted, etc., thereās even races restricted to Greys-Only (hello Polly!) and then thereās the really big āOpenā championships where itās Game-On! if you think youāre good enough, best-against-best, which is where we get our Sunlines, Makybe Divas, Winxās and Veery Elleegants. So Lia is now restricted from competing with the fillies and mares, heās now (rightly) going to have to compete against the colts and horses in restricted class ā and if he rates himself and chances his arm, s/heāll compete in Open events.
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@booboo said in Trans in sport / Laurel Hubbard:
A number of comments:
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Well done FINA. Nearly got it right. The whole puberty thing still leaves it open. Don't know about you but in my lived experience growing up I really can't recall any prepubescent girl being more athletic that the boys in my classes at school.
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WRT to the transitioning prior to 12. The major draw back. We all assume that this could never happen but there are enough evil people in the world who are busily paving the road to hell who would perpetrate this on children.
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The ABC's coverage is all about how "diversity experts", or 'Hannah' Mouncey, or some trans activist is declaring it discriminatory, or how it's not a big deal because it's only US collegiate sport and trans aren't dominating the Olympics etc. Quite sickening really. Report the facts please.
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UCI did the opposite on the weekend and essentially said everyone should have an opportunity, just not necessarily an equal opportunity.
Anyway, a step in the right direction. Well done FINA for as far as it goes.
WRT to the 'open' category (ie, the not female). Everyone sensible would agree with that, but the Trans activists are so convinced that TWAW that they must be treated as women. Anything short is bigotry. Will never happen. So just set the definition of women (get a biologist in), and if you don't make the cut you're a bloke.
Surely if you make the cut you're a bird
I'll get my coat
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This repellent woke showboat was a member of a world championship womens team that got clobbered by a boys high school team, yet fails to see the clear and unambiguous meaning behind that clobbering. Clueless radicalism.
Megan Rapinoe: Banning Transgender Athletes from Women's Sports Is 'Disgusting'
In an interview this week, U.S. womenās soccer player Megan Rapinoe called bans on transgender
āShow me the evidence that trans women are dominating in every sport, are winning every title. Iām sorry, itās just not happening,ā she insists.
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@Kid-Chocolate There'd be thousands of 15 year old boys in America better at soccer than her. They should all identify and get selected to shut her up.
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@booboo said in Trans in sport / Laurel Hubbard:
A number of comments:
- Well done FINA. Nearly got it right. The whole puberty thing still leaves it open. Don't know about you but in my lived experience growing up I really can't recall any prepubescent girl being more athletic that the boys in my classes at school.
My daughter raced in the NSW State Cross Country last weekend - she is 12, the race was for 12/13yrs so racing up a year. Also racing up a year was a 12yr old girl called Eliza Lawton who won with a time of 10:03 on a hilly 3km grass circuit.
Her time was also fast enough to win the equivalent 12/13 boys race (by 1s but still) - racing up a year!!!
Insane - remember that name, if she stays healthy she'll be an Olympian for sure
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@voodoo wonder if she is related to the Lawton family that produced several Wallabies over different generations?
This is a rugby site, so thought Iād ask
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@ACT-Crusader said in Trans in sport / Laurel Hubbard:
@voodoo wonder if she is related to the Lawton family that produced several Wallabies over different generations?
This is a rugby site, so thought Iād ask
Dunno, think her Father was a national-level runner though
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Transgender debate, in sport, in general
