All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test
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@Victor-Meldrew that really bugged me, we found something that worked, we were making huge meters....and then we went back to what hadn't been working before
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Victor-Meldrew that really bugged me, we found something that worked, we were making huge meters....and then we went back to what hadn't been working before
Problem with on-field leadership from the Snr players?
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@bayimports said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
look, picking SB at 6 works if the plan is to play tight and just bully the fuck out of Ireland at set piece and up front
If we pick 6 tight forwards and try and play wide-wide-wide (like a certain game in 2019) then i might be looking for a new TV by the Aussie game
I don't mind the plan, if the players can execute but it also relies on the forward pack to turn up and unfortunately it is mostly the same people that failed in 2019.
I almost wonder if this is Foster saying to Hansen, look your idea could work (and I havent had any successful ones)..bet I can do it ...meanwhile the fern loses it lol
I think it's more that the next generation of forwards probably aren't quite going to arrive in time for 2023. Which is a pity, because we've got most of the pieces to the puzzle in the backs.
e.g. by 2025, we could have Tamaiti Williams, Sami T. and Newell as a front row, which right now looks a pretty decent prospect - but, it's hard to see the props arriving in time for 2023.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@bayimports said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
look, picking SB at 6 works if the plan is to play tight and just bully the fuck out of Ireland at set piece and up front
If we pick 6 tight forwards and try and play wide-wide-wide (like a certain game in 2019) then i might be looking for a new TV by the Aussie game
I don't mind the plan, if the players can execute but it also relies on the forward pack to turn up and unfortunately it is mostly the same people that failed in 2019.
I almost wonder if this is Foster saying to Hansen, look your idea could work (and I havent had any successful ones)..bet I can do it ...meanwhile the fern loses it lol
I think it's more that the next generation of forwards probably aren't quite going to arrive in time for 2023. Which is a pity, because we've got most of the pieces to the puzzle in the backs.
e.g. by 2025, we could have Tamaiti Williams, Sami T. and Newell as a front row, which right now looks a pretty decent prospect - but, it's hard to see the props arriving in time for 2023.
Make up your mind geezer! Either players aren't ready and experience is required, even if out of position, or we need to throw good players into the mix because they're good enough even if they don't have test experience...
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@bayimports said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
look, picking SB at 6 works if the plan is to play tight and just bully the fuck out of Ireland at set piece and up front
If we pick 6 tight forwards and try and play wide-wide-wide (like a certain game in 2019) then i might be looking for a new TV by the Aussie game
I don't mind the plan, if the players can execute but it also relies on the forward pack to turn up and unfortunately it is mostly the same people that failed in 2019.
I almost wonder if this is Foster saying to Hansen, look your idea could work (and I havent had any successful ones)..bet I can do it ...meanwhile the fern loses it lol
I think it's more that the next generation of forwards probably aren't quite going to arrive in time for 2023. Which is a pity, because we've got most of the pieces to the puzzle in the backs.
e.g. by 2025, we could have Tamaiti Williams, Sami T. and Newell as a front row, which right now looks a pretty decent prospect - but, it's hard to see the props arriving in time for 2023.
Make up your mind geezer! Either players aren't ready and experience is required, even if out of position, or we need to throw good players into the mix because they're good enough even if they don't have test experience...
@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@bayimports said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
look, picking SB at 6 works if the plan is to play tight and just bully the fuck out of Ireland at set piece and up front
If we pick 6 tight forwards and try and play wide-wide-wide (like a certain game in 2019) then i might be looking for a new TV by the Aussie game
I don't mind the plan, if the players can execute but it also relies on the forward pack to turn up and unfortunately it is mostly the same people that failed in 2019.
I almost wonder if this is Foster saying to Hansen, look your idea could work (and I havent had any successful ones)..bet I can do it ...meanwhile the fern loses it lol
I think it's more that the next generation of forwards probably aren't quite going to arrive in time for 2023. Which is a pity, because we've got most of the pieces to the puzzle in the backs.
e.g. by 2025, we could have Tamaiti Williams, Sami T. and Newell as a front row, which right now looks a pretty decent prospect - but, it's hard to see the props arriving in time for 2023.
Make up your mind geezer! Either players aren't ready and experience is required, even if out of position, or we need to throw good players into the mix because they're good enough even if they don't have test experience...
My concern is that next year Newell could quite easily be the best TH in NZ, in his third year of professional rugby, but wouldn’t be considered ‘ready’. However if they had manned up and brought him in this year (eg right now instead of Lomax) he could/would likely be viewed very differently.
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@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@bayimports said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
look, picking SB at 6 works if the plan is to play tight and just bully the fuck out of Ireland at set piece and up front
If we pick 6 tight forwards and try and play wide-wide-wide (like a certain game in 2019) then i might be looking for a new TV by the Aussie game
I don't mind the plan, if the players can execute but it also relies on the forward pack to turn up and unfortunately it is mostly the same people that failed in 2019.
I almost wonder if this is Foster saying to Hansen, look your idea could work (and I havent had any successful ones)..bet I can do it ...meanwhile the fern loses it lol
I think it's more that the next generation of forwards probably aren't quite going to arrive in time for 2023. Which is a pity, because we've got most of the pieces to the puzzle in the backs.
e.g. by 2025, we could have Tamaiti Williams, Sami T. and Newell as a front row, which right now looks a pretty decent prospect - but, it's hard to see the props arriving in time for 2023.
Make up your mind geezer! Either players aren't ready and experience is required, even if out of position, or we need to throw good players into the mix because they're good enough even if they don't have test experience...
My concern is that next year Newell could quite easily be the best TH in NZ, in his third year of professional rugby, but wouldn’t be considered ‘ready’. However if they had manned up and brought him in this year (eg right now instead of Lomax) he could/would likely be viewed very differently.
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@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@gt12 but we wouldn't want his career ruined, as so often happens.
I don’t think you are serious, but I’ll bite anyway (fern way).
I’m not suggesting he start against the Boks this year, but that he be in the environment. I think M4L has been banging on about this for a while, but there is now a development aspect to the AB team, and the lack of a young TH seems pretty strange.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Victor-Meldrew it’s not as if this sort of thing hasn’t happened before though.
Flavell at 6, he’s no blindside, he’s a lock, but he’s got pace
What is Jerry Collins playing number 8? That’s not his position.
Mils on the wing? Mils at centre? Mils back at fullback?
Dagg on the wing? Dagg back at fullback?
Bender on the wing? Bender at centre? Bender at fullback? Bender back on the wing?
And you could go through a litany of props that were used under Mitchell, Henry, Hansen - where the response was either “what’s he done?” to “whatever happened to such and such, I thought he looked alright after his first shot off the bench”, never to see him much again.
Maybe our internet plans are better now and we can write more about it
All good points.
But those moves were logical and explained but a lot of Foster's choices seem weird and mysterious. Perhaps Foster just isn't that good at explaining his thought processes to the media?
@Victor-Meldrew I’m not sure the Mils or Dagg to wing moves were any more logical or illogical than Jordie to the wing
From my armchair, Jerry to number 8 was a case of getting him in the side whilst the captain - a very good captain, a win the Bledisloe back after 5 long years captain - played in his position (sounds familiar aye)
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@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@bayimports said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
look, picking SB at 6 works if the plan is to play tight and just bully the fuck out of Ireland at set piece and up front
If we pick 6 tight forwards and try and play wide-wide-wide (like a certain game in 2019) then i might be looking for a new TV by the Aussie game
I don't mind the plan, if the players can execute but it also relies on the forward pack to turn up and unfortunately it is mostly the same people that failed in 2019.
I almost wonder if this is Foster saying to Hansen, look your idea could work (and I havent had any successful ones)..bet I can do it ...meanwhile the fern loses it lol
I think it's more that the next generation of forwards probably aren't quite going to arrive in time for 2023. Which is a pity, because we've got most of the pieces to the puzzle in the backs.
e.g. by 2025, we could have Tamaiti Williams, Sami T. and Newell as a front row, which right now looks a pretty decent prospect - but, it's hard to see the props arriving in time for 2023.
Make up your mind geezer! Either players aren't ready and experience is required, even if out of position, or we need to throw good players into the mix because they're good enough even if they don't have test experience...
My concern is that next year Newell could quite easily be the best TH in NZ, in his third year of professional rugby, but wouldn’t be considered ‘ready’. However if they had manned up and brought him in this year (eg right now instead of Lomax) he could/would likely be viewed very differently.
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@Victor-Meldrew I’m not sure the Mils or Dagg to wing moves were any more logical or illogical than Jordie to the wing
From my armchair, Jerry to number 8 was a case of getting him in the side whilst the captain - a very good captain, a win the Bledisloe back after 5 long years captain - played in his position (sounds familiar aye)
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
I’m not sure the Mils or Dagg to wing moves were any more logical or illogical than Jordie to the wing
Mils was playing wing for the Blues way back in 2001 - 2 years before his test debut.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
This conversation is driving me fucking nuts.
We're playing a lock at 6 to hopefully make up for the fact that we are playing an impact 7 at 8.
At what point are the selectors going to man up and make a choice that it would be better for AB rugby to lose Ardie Savea, so that we could get some fucking balance?
Fuck him if he leaves because he has to play off the bench. We'd be better off.
So if Ardie is a 7 playing at 8, why is he picked in world VXs at 8, why does he look to be the first player named in any super team while playing at 8? He is a pretty capable 8, and because he can also play 7 doesn't stop him being a bloody good 8. Who has said he will bugger off if he is on bench, that is just making shit up and seemingly trying to make Ardie look like an arsehole.
@Dan54 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
This conversation is driving me fucking nuts.
We're playing a lock at 6 to hopefully make up for the fact that we are playing an impact 7 at 8.
At what point are the selectors going to man up and make a choice that it would be better for AB rugby to lose Ardie Savea, so that we could get some fucking balance?
Fuck him if he leaves because he has to play off the bench. We'd be better off.
So if Ardie is a 7 playing at 8, why is he picked in world VXs at 8, why does he look to be the first player named in any super team while playing at 8? He is a pretty capable 8, and because he can also play 7 doesn't stop him being a bloody good 8. Who has said he will bugger off if he is on bench, that is just making shit up and seemingly trying to make Ardie look like an arsehole.
People pick World XVs based in highlight reels. Just watch him play and how he never shifts bodies at rucks. Always leans or one out. Isn't tall enough to be a good option for lineputs.
Those are considerable gaps to be overcome in a loose forward trio.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
This conversation is driving me fucking nuts.
We're playing a lock at 6 to hopefully make up for the fact that we are playing an impact 7 at 8.
At what point are the selectors going to man up and make a choice that it would be better for AB rugby to lose Ardie Savea, so that we could get some fucking balance?
Fuck him if he leaves because he has to play off the bench. We'd be better off.
So if Ardie is a 7 playing at 8, why is he picked in world VXs at 8, why does he look to be the first player named in any super team while playing at 8? He is a pretty capable 8, and because he can also play 7 doesn't stop him being a bloody good 8. Who has said he will bugger off if he is on bench, that is just making shit up and seemingly trying to make Ardie look like an arsehole.
People pick World XVs based in highlight reels. Just watch him play and how he never shifts bodies at rucks. Always leans or one out. Isn't tall enough to be a good option for lineputs.
Those are considerable gaps to be overcome in a loose forward trio.
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
This conversation is driving me fucking nuts.
We're playing a lock at 6 to hopefully make up for the fact that we are playing an impact 7 at 8.
At what point are the selectors going to man up and make a choice that it would be better for AB rugby to lose Ardie Savea, so that we could get some fucking balance?
Fuck him if he leaves because he has to play off the bench. We'd be better off.
So if Ardie is a 7 playing at 8, why is he picked in world VXs at 8, why does he look to be the first player named in any super team while playing at 8? He is a pretty capable 8, and because he can also play 7 doesn't stop him being a bloody good 8. Who has said he will bugger off if he is on bench, that is just making shit up and seemingly trying to make Ardie look like an arsehole.
People pick World XVs based in highlight reels. Just watch him play and how he never shifts bodies at rucks. Always leans or one out. Isn't tall enough to be a good option for lineputs.
Those are considerable gaps to be overcome in a loose forward trio.
The fac that he's twice been the ABs Player's Player of the year means I call bollox. I have my biases, as do we all, but the All Blacks players themselves have a pretty good fucking idea of who is doing the mahi for the team. I do agree that playing him is 8 (fine plonking him on the back of the scrum on attack) is stupid. The key point is the coaches are bunch of pussies who can't grip it and select a decent team. So the fanny about and just put the 'best palyers' where ever they could possibly fit
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@antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
This conversation is driving me fucking nuts.
We're playing a lock at 6 to hopefully make up for the fact that we are playing an impact 7 at 8.
At what point are the selectors going to man up and make a choice that it would be better for AB rugby to lose Ardie Savea, so that we could get some fucking balance?
Fuck him if he leaves because he has to play off the bench. We'd be better off.
So if Ardie is a 7 playing at 8, why is he picked in world VXs at 8, why does he look to be the first player named in any super team while playing at 8? He is a pretty capable 8, and because he can also play 7 doesn't stop him being a bloody good 8. Who has said he will bugger off if he is on bench, that is just making shit up and seemingly trying to make Ardie look like an arsehole.
People pick World XVs based in highlight reels. Just watch him play and how he never shifts bodies at rucks. Always leans or one out. Isn't tall enough to be a good option for lineputs.
Those are considerable gaps to be overcome in a loose forward trio.
The fac that he's twice been the ABs Player's Player of the year means I call bollox. I have my biases, as do we all, but the All Blacks players themselves have a pretty good fucking idea of who is doing the mahi for the team. I do agree that playing him is 8 (fine plonking him on the back of the scrum on attack) is stupid. The key point is the coaches are bunch of pussies who can't grip it and select a decent team. So the fanny about and just put the 'best palyers' where ever they could possibly fit
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@antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
This conversation is driving me fucking nuts.
We're playing a lock at 6 to hopefully make up for the fact that we are playing an impact 7 at 8.
At what point are the selectors going to man up and make a choice that it would be better for AB rugby to lose Ardie Savea, so that we could get some fucking balance?
Fuck him if he leaves because he has to play off the bench. We'd be better off.
So if Ardie is a 7 playing at 8, why is he picked in world VXs at 8, why does he look to be the first player named in any super team while playing at 8? He is a pretty capable 8, and because he can also play 7 doesn't stop him being a bloody good 8. Who has said he will bugger off if he is on bench, that is just making shit up and seemingly trying to make Ardie look like an arsehole.
People pick World XVs based in highlight reels. Just watch him play and how he never shifts bodies at rucks. Always leans or one out. Isn't tall enough to be a good option for lineputs.
Those are considerable gaps to be overcome in a loose forward trio.
The fac that he's twice been the ABs Player's Player of the year means I call bollox. I have my biases, as do we all, but the All Blacks players themselves have a pretty good fucking idea of who is doing the mahi for the team. I do agree that playing him is 8 (fine plonking him on the back of the scrum on attack) is stupid. The key point is the coaches are bunch of pussies who can't grip it and select a decent team. So the fanny about and just put the 'best palyers' where ever they could possibly fit
@Machpants said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
This conversation is driving me fucking nuts.
We're playing a lock at 6 to hopefully make up for the fact that we are playing an impact 7 at 8.
At what point are the selectors going to man up and make a choice that it would be better for AB rugby to lose Ardie Savea, so that we could get some fucking balance?
Fuck him if he leaves because he has to play off the bench. We'd be better off.
So if Ardie is a 7 playing at 8, why is he picked in world VXs at 8, why does he look to be the first player named in any super team while playing at 8? He is a pretty capable 8, and because he can also play 7 doesn't stop him being a bloody good 8. Who has said he will bugger off if he is on bench, that is just making shit up and seemingly trying to make Ardie look like an arsehole.
People pick World XVs based in highlight reels. Just watch him play and how he never shifts bodies at rucks. Always leans or one out. Isn't tall enough to be a good option for lineputs.
Those are considerable gaps to be overcome in a loose forward trio.
The fac that he's twice been the ABs Player's Player of the year means I call bollox. I have my biases, as do we all, but the All Blacks players themselves have a pretty good fucking idea of who is doing the mahi for the team. I do agree that playing him is 8 (fine plonking him on the back of the scrum on attack) is stupid. The key point is the coaches are bunch of pussies who can't grip it and select a decent team. So the fanny about and just put the 'best palyers' where ever they could possibly fit
sam winders was silverferns players player last year and look were she is now
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
This conversation is driving me fucking nuts.
We're playing a lock at 6 to hopefully make up for the fact that we are playing an impact 7 at 8.
At what point are the selectors going to man up and make a choice that it would be better for AB rugby to lose Ardie Savea, so that we could get some fucking balance?
Fuck him if he leaves because he has to play off the bench. We'd be better off.
So if Ardie is a 7 playing at 8, why is he picked in world VXs at 8, why does he look to be the first player named in any super team while playing at 8? He is a pretty capable 8, and because he can also play 7 doesn't stop him being a bloody good 8. Who has said he will bugger off if he is on bench, that is just making shit up and seemingly trying to make Ardie look like an arsehole.
People pick World XVs based in highlight reels. Just watch him play and how he never shifts bodies at rucks. Always leans or one out. Isn't tall enough to be a good option for lineputs.
Those are considerable gaps to be overcome in a loose forward trio.
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
This conversation is driving me fucking nuts.
We're playing a lock at 6 to hopefully make up for the fact that we are playing an impact 7 at 8.
At what point are the selectors going to man up and make a choice that it would be better for AB rugby to lose Ardie Savea, so that we could get some fucking balance?
Fuck him if he leaves because he has to play off the bench. We'd be better off.
So if Ardie is a 7 playing at 8, why is he picked in world VXs at 8, why does he look to be the first player named in any super team while playing at 8? He is a pretty capable 8, and because he can also play 7 doesn't stop him being a bloody good 8. Who has said he will bugger off if he is on bench, that is just making shit up and seemingly trying to make Ardie look like an arsehole.
People pick World XVs based in highlight reels. Just watch him play and how he never shifts bodies at rucks. Always leans or one out. Isn't tall enough to be a good option for lineputs.
Those are considerable gaps to be overcome in a loose forward trio.
You do know the world xv (the only one I use as it is a World Rugby one) is picked by the a panel including Richie McCaw, Terry Dustoir,, Joe Smit, Ugo Moyne etc etc, I know I know how would these lot know more about what makes a good international rugby player than those who who inhabit forums etc., but there you go they just look at a few highlights and pick team no doubt.
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Question for you Kiwis. Who, if any of the Irish would ye take in an AB team?
I'm nervous about this first test... I just hope it's a close game and we don't get pumped.
@Ludraman said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
Question for you Kiwis. Who, if any of the Irish would ye take in an AB team?
I'm nervous about this first test... I just hope it's a close game and we don't get pumped.
Easy. Henshaw at 12 has the runs on the board over Tupaea. Also Porter and Furlong at prop.
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Question for you Kiwis. Who, if any of the Irish would ye take in an AB team?
I'm nervous about this first test... I just hope it's a close game and we don't get pumped.
@Ludraman said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
Question for you Kiwis. Who, if any of the Irish would ye take in an AB team?
I'm nervous about this first test... I just hope it's a close game and we don't get pumped.
Furlong and Porter. Also the injured Leinster hooker Kelleher is a good player. Doris was very good vs the ABs last year but he’s been less impressive this year. Henshaw is a very good player. I rate the FB Keenan but probably not enough on attack. I think Ryan after a good first season has faded a bit.
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I’ll wait and see how things pan out but as I’ve posted a few times not convinced by our props in the squad. The loose forwards are a mystery, not convinced PGS can post error-free test match footy. Grace has had a fantastic end to the season and is a genuine line out option like Read before him. Same can not be said of players like Savea. Hope Leicester goes well as I have doubts too.
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Question for you Kiwis. Who, if any of the Irish would ye take in an AB team?
I'm nervous about this first test... I just hope it's a close game and we don't get pumped.
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If it's wet and tight (ooh err missus) I'd take sexcockwomble over Beaudy, but I think the weather is ok.
I'd take one of their loosies over Barrett, anyone of them. I'd be tempted with Bierne instead of BBBR, unless Brodie really steps it back to the good old days
O'Aki over Ennor, Healy instead of Angus, Murray not Christie
South some of those above, is coming upto half the 23
